BoxRec

This guy is the winner, no question. How did he get two world title shots?

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4777

That's pretty puffed up. Not sure who you possibly come up with as a decent win. You wonder if he could have had a better career if he had to overcome a few decent obstacles before getting his shot against Moorer.

Ambling Alp II wrote:That's pretty puffed up. Not sure who you possibly come up with as a decent win. You wonder if he could have had a better career if he had to overcome a few decent obstacles before getting his shot against Moorer.

I've got another one for you mate. Check out how many opportunities this guy got....

http://boxrec.com/boxer/7144

tagjohnson wrote:Hey Alp, it's been a while. Hope this finds you well. My apologies but someone can be good and still have fought a lot of stiffs. And Greg (God rest his soul) certainly did that. From 96-97 he went 14-0, seven of those wins were against winless fighters (three were making their debut) and don't even get me started about his very early career. BTW what do you think about my mention of Jimmy Clark and Sean O'Grady among the little guys?

Guess we will have to agree to disagree about Page.
I don't remember Jimmy Clark at all.
O'Grady certainly fought a ton of weak opponents. To be fair, he started his pro career at the age of 15. It's not fair criticize his opponents in his first few years. However, by his 20s he should have taking on better opposition. Hilmer Kenty is probably the best opponent that he beat.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:That's pretty puffed up. Not sure who you possibly come up with as a decent win. You wonder if he could have had a better career if he had to overcome a few decent obstacles before getting his shot against Moorer.

I've got another one for you mate. Check out how many opportunities this guy got....

http://boxrec.com/boxer/7144

Even for that weight class, it is surprising that he got these many chances without beating anyone.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:That's pretty puffed up. Not sure who you possibly come up with as a decent win. You wonder if he could have had a better career if he had to overcome a few decent obstacles before getting his shot against Moorer.

I've got another one for you mate. Check out how many opportunities this guy got....

http://boxrec.com/boxer/7144

Even for that weight class, it is surprising that he got these many chances without beating anyone.

And he even made it into a Guy Ritchie movie.

Back of heavyweight, this guy didn't exactly do a lot.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/7003

keithmoonhangover wrote:This guy is the winner, no question. How did he get two world title shots?

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4777

Simple explanation really - years and decades ago we (the boxing public) never had a tool such as BoxRec to keep track of fighters' records.

Boxers has been an absolute godsend for boxing enthusiasts because of how comprehensive it is.

I remember watching a documentary years ago discussing the best boxer P4P of all time, and they credited Julio Cesar Chavez with a record of 98 wins, 2 losses - and that seemed wrong at the time.

Also, its because of BoxRec that we can highlight mismatches as being what they are, without listening to hyperbole of the promoters.

BoxRec has tightened everything up, and made everything more transparent for all boxing fans.

Crease wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:This guy is the winner, no question. How did he get two world title shots?

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4777

Simple explanation really - years and decades ago we (the boxing public) never had a tool such as BoxRec to keep track of fighters' records.

Boxers has been an absolute godsend for boxing enthusiasts because of how comprehensive it is.

I remember watching a documentary years ago discussing the best boxer P4P of all time, and they credited Julio Cesar Chavez with a record of 98 wins, 2 losses - and that seemed wrong at the time.

Also, its because of BoxRec that we can highlight mismatches as being what they are, without listening to hyperbole of the promoters.

BoxRec has tightened everything up, and made everything more transparent for all boxing fans.

I've always been a boxing nerd, so I used to buy the Ring Record Book and Hugman's Boxing Yearbook.

keithmoonhangover wrote:I've always been a boxing nerd, so I used to buy the Ring Record Book and Hugman's Boxing Yearbook.

As have I, when I was a kid I never had my nose out of my boxing encyclopedia.

Yet boxing books tend to be "top heavy" and what I mean by that is - it's all well and good looking down the World title lineages and seeing which guy beat thread Champ, but it doesn't really compare to BoxRec does it?

I admit that boxing books are useful and valuable to our spirit and they certainly serve a purpose. But in my eyes, they aren't anywhere near as impartial and objective as BoxRec.

Crease wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:I've always been a boxing nerd, so I used to buy the Ring Record Book and Hugman's Boxing Yearbook.

As have I, when I was a kid I never had my nose out of my boxing encyclopedia.

Yet boxing books tend to be "top heavy" and what I mean by that is - it's all well and good looking down the World title lineages and seeing which guy beat thread Champ, but it doesn't really compare to BoxRec does it?

I admit that boxing books are useful and valuable to our spirit and they certainly serve a purpose. But in my eyes, they aren't anywhere near as impartial and objective as BoxRec.

I agree that BoxRec is more thorough. One thing I don't like about Boxrec is that it has notes under the result of some fights and not others,

Crease wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:This guy is the winner, no question. How did he get two world title shots?

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4777

Simple explanation really - years and decades ago we (the boxing public) never had a tool such as BoxRec to keep track of fighters' records.

Boxers has been an absolute godsend for boxing enthusiasts because of how comprehensive it is.

I remember watching a documentary years ago discussing the best boxer P4P of all time, and they credited Julio Cesar Chavez with a record of 98 wins, 2 losses - and that seemed wrong at the time.

Also, its because of BoxRec that we can highlight mismatches as being what they are, without listening to hyperbole of the promoters.

BoxRec has tightened everything up, and made everything more transparent for all boxing fans.

Everyone knew at the time that Vaughn Bean & Butch Lewis were con men. Lewis' justifications for Bean's mandatory status were cringeworthy. Those two title fights were a new low in 90s boxing. Great example of a puffed up record.

The point is he had a puffed up record which is what this post is all about.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:That's pretty puffed up. Not sure who you possibly come up with as a decent win. You wonder if he could have had a better career if he had to overcome a few decent obstacles before getting his shot against Moorer.

I've got another one for you mate. Check out how many opportunities this guy got....

http://boxrec.com/boxer/7144

Those divisions are always so low on competition it seems. If you're on a 4 or 5 fight winning streak against anybody you're often Top 10 or Top 15 in the world because you've already beaten a significant fraction of the division

Roman Greenberg also springs to mind....big news for a while, colourful background and he racked-up lots of wins.
Certain areas of North London got right behind him.

I was not totally convinced myself and after a loss he just disappeared...think his family were making good money elsewhere and Roman did not have to earn a living with his fists any longer?

This is possibly the worst case of padding and he even managed to get a 'world' title shot.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4239

keithmoonhangover wrote:This is possibly the worst case of padding and he even managed to get a 'world' title shot.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4239

According to the lore, the doughboy was literally in the right place at the right time.

keithmoonhangover wrote:This is possibly the worst case of padding and he even managed to get a 'world' title shot.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4239

He was in the crowd to watch the fight when Morrison's opponent Mike Williams pulled out at the last minute and he was asked to step in. I was never sure if that was an urban myth or not but I can't find anything to say it wasn't true either.

Ambling Alp II wrote:I guess there is nothing wrong with them making a living doing that.

that's how i see it. they were very aware
of what they could and could not do. that
is why they never step up, as the pure
numbers on their record would recommend
them to do.

Controversial wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:This is possibly the worst case of padding and he even managed to get a 'world' title shot.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4239

He was in the crowd to watch the fight when Morrison's opponent Mike Williams pulled out at the last minute and he was asked to step in. I was never sure if that was an urban myth or not but I can't find anything to say it wasn't true either.

It's an urban myth. The promoters suspected Williams would be a no show and had Tomashek ready to sub. Short notice yes, but he wasn't actually pulled from the crowd.

keithmoonhangover wrote:This guy is the winner, no question. How did he get two world title shots?

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4777

He did stop Harold Johnson!

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Controversial wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:This is possibly the worst case of padding and he even managed to get a 'world' title shot.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4239

He was in the crowd to watch the fight when Morrison's opponent Mike Williams pulled out at the last minute and he was asked to step in. I was never sure if that was an urban myth or not but I can't find anything to say it wasn't true either.

It's an urban myth. The promoters suspected Williams would be a no show and had Tomashek ready to sub. Short notice yes, but he wasn't actually pulled from the crowd.

I believed it watching it live.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Controversial wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:This is possibly the worst case of padding and he even managed to get a 'world' title shot.

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4239

He was in the crowd to watch the fight when Morrison's opponent Mike Williams pulled out at the last minute and he was asked to step in. I was never sure if that was an urban myth or not but I can't find anything to say it wasn't true either.

It's an urban myth. The promoters suspected Williams would be a no show and had Tomashek ready to sub. Short notice yes, but he wasn't actually pulled from the crowd.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:This guy is the winner, no question. How did he get two world title shots?

http://boxrec.com/boxer/4777

He did stop Harold Johnson!

Considering his record is full of stiffs he actually didn't do too bad when he stepped up, lost a MD to Moorer, lost on points to Holyfield and made it to the 11th vs. Vitali Klitschko which was the only time he was ever stopped