Undefeated49-0 wrote:Look at the clock on YT (counter bottom left) and take notice when Douglas hits the canvas and you'll be able to clearly tell he was down for at least 12 seconds.
He hits the deck at 3:31 according to the YT clock on the seconds for the time track on this video and is actually standing by 3: 45, in reality it is 14 seconds but he was getting up by 13 seconds, go count it for yourself.
It doesn't matter if he was down for 40 seconds, as long as he beat the refs count of 10.
Undefeated49-0 wrote:Look at the clock on YT (counter bottom left) and take notice when Douglas hits the canvas and you'll be able to clearly tell he was down for at least 12 seconds.
He hits the deck at 3:31 according to the YT clock on the seconds for the time track on this video and is actually standing by 3: 45, in reality it is 14 seconds but he was getting up by 13 seconds, go count it for yourself.
It doesn't matter if he was down for 40 seconds, as long as he beat the refs count of 10.
This. If you watch when Tyson goes down in the video the ref picks up the count at 2, when Tyson has already been down for 5 seconds. I doubt a fighter has ever been counted out dead on ten seconds. It's a non point.
Undefeated49-0 wrote:Look at the clock on YT (counter bottom left) and take notice when Douglas hits the canvas and you'll be able to clearly tell he was down for at least 12 seconds.
He hits the deck at 3:31 according to the YT clock on the seconds for the time track on this video and is actually standing by 3: 45, in reality it is 14 seconds but he was getting up by 13 seconds, go count it for yourself.
It doesn't matter if he was down for 40 seconds, as long as he beat the refs count of 10.
This. If you watch when Tyson goes down in the video the ref picks up the count at 2, when Tyson has already been down for 5 seconds. I doubt a fighter has ever been counted out dead on ten seconds. It's a non point.
If you count up to 10 and time your count with a stopwatch, you will likely be off by a second or 2. The ref also has to deal with the noise and whether the boxer who scored the knockdown is properly in the neutral corner. The fighter knocked down can't possibly be able to decipher a real 10 seconds, as a totally sober person NOT hit is often off by a few seconds. The boxer's only responsibility is to beat the refs 10 count, not to figure out a real 10 seconds.
It's not just this fight that refs screwed up. Foreman arguably beat the count in Zaire; he was on his feet but not standing up straight. The ref shouldn't even have started a count in the Bonavena and Liston 2 Ali fights, as Muhammad refused to go and stay in a neutral corner.
These are tough fraction of a second calls, like a close in or out baseball call.
Undefeated49-0 wrote:Look at the clock on YT (counter bottom left) and take notice when Douglas hits the canvas and you'll be able to clearly tell he was down for at least 12 seconds.
He hits the deck at 3:31 according to the YT clock on the seconds for the time track on this video and is actually standing by 3: 45, in reality it is 14 seconds but he was getting up by 13 seconds, go count it for yourself.
Douglas beat the referee's count; that's all that matters.
Undefeated49-0 wrote:Look at the clock on YT (counter bottom left) and take notice when Douglas hits the canvas and you'll be able to clearly tell he was down for at least 12 seconds.
He hits the deck at 3:31 according to the YT clock on the seconds for the time track on this video and is actually standing by 3: 45, in reality it is 14 seconds but he was getting up by 13 seconds, go count it for yourself.
Douglas beat the referee's count; that's all that matters.
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No, the reality is that Douglas waited for the ref to reach 8 and got up. There is no evidence he couldn't have done that earlier if the count was timed properly.
No it isn't the reality, the reality is that the count started the moment he hit the deck and you can clearly see that the Ref only picks up the count 2 seconds later as indicated by his fingers, stop looking at Douglas and listening to the Ref and you can count this for yourself but I know that now you've stuck your foot in it that your pride won't allow you to admit that you're wrong.
Undefeated49-0 wrote:Look at the clock on YT (counter bottom left) and take notice when Douglas hits the canvas and you'll be able to clearly tell he was down for at least 12 seconds.
He hits the deck at 3:31 according to the YT clock on the seconds for the time track on this video and is actually standing by 3: 45, in reality it is 14 seconds but he was getting up by 13 seconds, go count it for yourself.
Everyone knows he was down longer than 10 seconds, you're not bringing forth a revelation. That doesn't make it a ko, the ref counting 10 does. As I said, there is no evidence to indicate Douglas would not have gotten up if the count was proper.
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Everyone knows he was down longer than 10 seconds, you're not bringing forth a revelation. That doesn't make it a ko, the ref counting 10 does. As I said, there is no evidence to indicate Douglas would not have gotten up if the count was proper.
What a contradiction you have here, first you say this: Everyone knows he was down longer than 10 seconds,
Then you say this: there is no evidence to indicate Douglas would not have gotten up
You just stated that "EVERYONE" but then you said there isn't any evidence. Hello, he was down for more than 10 seconds, duh
Undefeated49-0 wrote:Look at the clock on YT (counter bottom left) and take notice when Douglas hits the canvas and you'll be able to clearly tell he was down for at least 12 seconds.
He hits the deck at 3:31 according to the YT clock on the seconds for the time track on this video and is actually standing by 3: 45, in reality it is 14 seconds but he was getting up by 13 seconds, go count it for yourself.
Douglas beat the referee's count; that's all that matters.
Tyson was overrated for the vast majority of his career, including during the majority of his undefeated run. He was always one bad camp and good big man away from defeat.
Tanzio wrote:Tyson was overrated for the vast majority of his career, including during the majority of his undefeated run. He was always one bad camp and good big man away from defeat.
He could REALLY Punch and he was fast, but he didn't have the head movement of a Frazier, or the tenacity of a Holyfield, as we saw.
Hard hitter, fast, and exciting - yup. Overrated - yup.
But in all fairness virtually every fighter is one bad camp and good big man away from defeat.
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Everyone knows he was down longer than 10 seconds, you're not bringing forth a revelation. That doesn't make it a ko, the ref counting 10 does. As I said, there is no evidence to indicate Douglas would not have gotten up if the count was proper.
What a contradiction you have here, first you say this: Everyone knows he was down longer than 10 seconds,
Then you say this: there is no evidence to indicate Douglas would not have gotten up
You just stated that "EVERYONE" but then you said there isn't any evidence. Hello, he was down for more than 10 seconds, duh
Nobody questioned that he was down for more than ten seconds, everyone but you knows it doesn't matter. No contradiction at all, complete consistency in every word.
Tyson is one of the most overrated athletes in sports history. He was very good but his prime came in a time when the division was in a transition period. I'm of the belief he would not have beaten Holyfield or Lennox even if they came around sooner and during his peak. We will never know tho. Wish he would've fought Riddick Bowe as well.
diddy wrote:Tyson is one of the most overrated athletes in sports history. He was very good but his prime came in a time when the division was in a transition period. I'm of the belief he would not have beaten Holyfield or Lennox even if they came around sooner and during his peak. We will never know tho. Wish he would've fought Riddick Bowe as well.
He could never beat Evander at any stage. One of my friends called me after the fight to tell me I was right 10 years earlier. I was a lone wolf then, and people actually watched and talked about Boxing.
everyone who wants to know is aware
that mike tyson had all kinds of things
going on in his head in preparation for
this fight. he was a young kid, that had
lost all proportion on life and boxing.
douglas got knocked down, was very
quickly aware of what was going on, went
to his knee and prepared to beat the count,
whereas tyson, after he hit the canvas was
all over the place and was obviously unable
to continue. legit knockdown. legit stoppage.
there is no real controversy about this
and never has been. but if douglas would
have been counted out despite clearly
beating the count and obviously being
able to continue ... now that would have
been a huge scandal indeed.
King and Tyson tried to get the result overturned and a lot of Mike's fanboys complained, so there was mild controversy. Not by anyone with a brain and without an agenda.
Tyson just had a short prime, mainly because he couldn't handle the fame, money and women he attracted. He was a street thug who hit the big time and couldn't hack it. Not taking anything away from Douglas but no way Tyson was properly prepared or taking Douglas seriously. Before he started loading up on his punches he would give any fighter in history a tough fight, I can't see anyone easily beating him.
I don't think he gets enough credit for beating Holmes. Lets not forget after losing to Tyson, Holmes fought another 24 times, going 21-3 only losing to Holyfield (aged 42), McCall (aged 45) and a disputed loss to the undefeated Brian Nielsen (aged 47). He was never stopped again, beat the undefeated Ray Mercer quite handily four years after the Tyson loss and had two more cracks at the world title losing on points to Holyfield and McCall much later in life. Even though Holmes was 38 he was still a good fighter, as proved by his career afterwards, and not many fighters could've flattened Holmes like Tyson did.
Controversial wrote:Tyson just had a short prime, mainly because he couldn't handle the fame, money and women he attracted. He was a street thug who hit the big time and couldn't hack it. Not taking anything away from Douglas but no way Tyson was properly prepared or taking Douglas seriously. Before he started loading up on his punches he would give any fighter in history a tough fight, I can't see anyone easily beating him.
I don't think he gets enough credit for beating Holmes. Lets not forget after losing to Tyson, Holmes fought another 24 times, going 21-3 only losing to Holyfield (aged 42), McCall (aged 45) and a disputed loss to the undefeated Brian Nielsen (aged 47). He was never stopped again, beat the undefeated Ray Mercer quite handily four years after the Tyson loss and had two more cracks at the world title losing on points to Holyfield and McCall much later in life. Even though Holmes was 38 he was still a good fighter, as proved by his career afterwards, and not many fighters could've flattened Holmes like Tyson did.
I agree with most everything you said.
Except Holmes had a two year layoff and took this fight on short notice. Holmes who is one of my favorite fightets. Would of still lost at 38 but I think with a few tune ups and a longer camp would of made it a more competitive bout.
Tyson was a beast. He would of given any champion in history a tough fight. Top 20 for sure. Those that have him on the top 10 have a legitimate argument
Some real dumbasses here. How many times do people have to state that it's a 'count of ten' not ten seconds before the morons catch on. Trolls or mongs, you decide.
I've seen this discussion on here before and, at the risk of repeating myself, I see the peak Tyson as the version who was trained by Rooney. They worked together until the Spinks fight, if I remember correctly. That version of Tyson was devastating and more besides. Everyone was talking about him in those days, even people who weren't into boxing. I think for those who are too young to remember what impact Tyson had at that time, it would be hard for them to imagine it. Put it this way - he really was that big (and that was before social media).
Controversial wrote:Tyson just had a short prime, mainly because he couldn't handle the fame, money and women he attracted. He was a street thug who hit the big time and couldn't hack it. Not taking anything away from Douglas but no way Tyson was properly prepared or taking Douglas seriously. Before he started loading up on his punches he would give any fighter in history a tough fight, I can't see anyone easily beating him.
I don't think he gets enough credit for beating Holmes. Lets not forget after losing to Tyson, Holmes fought another 24 times, going 21-3 only losing to Holyfield (aged 42), McCall (aged 45) and a disputed loss to the undefeated Brian Nielsen (aged 47). He was never stopped again, beat the undefeated Ray Mercer quite handily four years after the Tyson loss and had two more cracks at the world title losing on points to Holyfield and McCall much later in life. Even though Holmes was 38 he was still a good fighter, as proved by his career afterwards, and not many fighters could've flattened Holmes like Tyson did.
I agree with most everything you said.
Except Holmes had a two year layoff and took this fight on short notice. Holmes who is one of my favorite fightets. Would of still lost at 38 but I think with a few tune ups and a longer camp would of made it a more competitive bout.
Tyson was a beast. He would of given any champion in history a tough fight. Top 20 for sure. Those that have him on the top 10 have a legitimate argument
Sure a few warm ups wouldn't have hurt him but he was given more than three months notice so not massively short notice. It's not as if the fight went a number of rounds and Holmes tired, he was knocked out. I'm not so sure I believe Holmes that he was physically underprepared, he has an ego the size of a house and the aura around Tyson with the chance of regaining the title make me think he wouldn't have not trained properly. I think Tyson would've beaten him whatever condition Holmes was in. I agree Tyson was a nightmare for any HW champ in history.
Last edited by Controversial on 25 Mar 2016, 06:27, edited 1 time in total.
