BoxRec

Rocky would have won it no doubt.
Bugner would have been more busted up by Marciano then he was by Frazier assuming it would have gone the distance.
anyway I rarely post on fantasy fights.
A more realistic fight would have been

Rocky Marciano vrs Ingemar Johansson for the Heavyweight Championship of the World in 1960.

True - Bugner was safety first fighter with a lot of attributes who more often than not produced super boring fights. He could survive against top guys or claw his way to points wins over guys the next level down but that's about it. When he fought Ali, Frazier, Lyle shavers etc he came up short. The fact that some people think he'd be able suddenly somehow improve and beat a ferocious undefeated undisputed heavyweight 49-0 (43) power punching legend like Rocky Marciano astounds me. Ofc matching up rocky against other great champions then I can see things going either way and people's views could differ but no way is Rocky going to lose to someone like bugner

Caractacus wrote:Rocky would have won it no doubt.
Bugner would have been more busted up by Marciano then he was by Frazier assuming it would have gone the distance.
anyway I rarely post on fantasy fights.
A more realistic fight would have been

Rocky Marciano vrs Ingemar Johansson for the Heavyweight Championship of the World in 1960.

Some of you are overrating the power punching of Marciano.

Sure, the knockout punch on JJW in their first fight was great.

But he actually was more of an attrition puncher than one shot knockout guy.

I agree. That's why I don't think he stops Bugner, although Rocky's non-stop aggression would most likely drive Bugner into his shell, and means Marciano hammers out a points win. Bugner did tend to do well against small, stocky fighters though so it might be closer than some think.

Ditto

I can see a scenario where there are actually plenty of shared rounds but Marciano's overall aggression and workrate just edges things.

Joe would still be standing tall and would not have been busted-up or put down...but a wee bit too much time forced to cede ground and not enough volume from Joe would have swung things for Rocky.

It is a close fight - with the Bugner jab and movement causing Rocky plenty of problems at first - but ultimately not enough of Rocky's swarming attacks get stopped by some sufficiently heavy shots coming back from Joe...so the American piles forward and does enough.

Marciano was both during his career.
A one shot knockout puncher earlier
and then a attrition puncher later on.
and sometimes he even did both in a fight.
brutal Attritionpunches and then a one shot knockout punch !

Caractacus wrote:Marciano was both during his career.
A one shot knockout puncher earlier
and then a attrition puncher later on.
and sometimes he even did both in a fight.
brutal Attritionpunches and then a one shot knockout punch !

Yeah, like the Cockell fight I guess.

What nonsense in this thread. Yancey's agenda here is that his idol Joe Frazier beat Bugner, therefore he needs to convince people Bugner beats Rocky Marciano in order to further boost Frazier's reputation.

Joe Frazier is great independent of his fight with Joe Bugner. There's no need to slander Marciano, or undermine his fighting prowess, just to give Smokin' Joe some more glory.

Any sensible person can watch the Marciano fights and see that he possessed intangibles that would see him through a big lump who lost to Larry Middleton, Jack Bodell, and who scraped by an antique Henry Cooper on a controversial decision. Muhammad Ali put Bugner in his shell. So would the Rock.

Tuan_Jim wrote:What nonsense in this thread. Yancey's agenda here is that his idol Joe Frazier beat Bugner, therefore he needs to convince people Bugner beats Rocky Marciano in order to further boost Frazier's reputation.

Joe Frazier is great independent of his fight with Joe Bugner. There's no need to slander Marciano, or undermine his fighting prowess, just to give Smokin' Joe some more glory.

Any sensible person can watch the Marciano fights and see that he possessed intangibles that would see him through a big lump who lost to Larry Middleton, Jack Bodell, and who scraped by an antique Henry Cooper on a controversial decision. Muhammad Ali put Bugner in his shell. So would the Rock.

mercman wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:

I agree. That's why I don't think he stops Bugner, although Rocky's non-stop aggression would most likely drive Bugner into his shell, and means Marciano hammers out a points win. Bugner did tend to do well against small, stocky fighters though so it might be closer than some think.

Ditto

I can see a scenario where there are actually plenty of shared rounds but Marciano's overall aggression and workrate just edges things.

Joe would still be standing tall and would not have been busted-up or put down...but a wee bit too much time forced to cede ground and not enough volume from Joe would have swung things for Rocky.

It is a close fight - with the Bugner jab and movement causing Rocky plenty of problems at first - but ultimately not enough of Rocky's swarming attacks get stopped by some sufficiently heavy shots coming back from Joe...so the American piles forward and does enough.

Yeah, very good summary, that Bodyshot. That's how I see it going.

Yeah, good analysis except you got the winner wrong.

Bugner is too damn big for Rocky.

Bugner figures that out by the middle rounds, his confidence goes through the roof, and he pulls away for the win.

mercman wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:

I agree. That's why I don't think he stops Bugner, although Rocky's non-stop aggression would most likely drive Bugner into his shell, and means Marciano hammers out a points win. Bugner did tend to do well against small, stocky fighters though so it might be closer than some think.

Ditto

I can see a scenario where there are actually plenty of shared rounds but Marciano's overall aggression and workrate just edges things.

Joe would still be standing tall and would not have been busted-up or put down...but a wee bit too much time forced to cede ground and not enough volume from Joe would have swung things for Rocky.

It is a close fight - with the Bugner jab and movement causing Rocky plenty of problems at first - but ultimately not enough of Rocky's swarming attacks get stopped by some sufficiently heavy shots coming back from Joe...so the American piles forward and does enough.

Yeah, very good summary, that Bodyshot. That's how I see it going.

delete, duplicate post.

Tuan_Jim wrote:What nonsense in this thread. Yancey's agenda here is that his idol Joe Frazier beat Bugner, therefore he needs to convince people Bugner beats Rocky Marciano in order to further boost Frazier's reputation.

Joe Frazier is great independent of his fight with Joe Bugner. There's no need to slander Marciano, or undermine his fighting prowess, just to give Smokin' Joe some more glory.

Any sensible person can watch the Marciano fights and see that he possessed intangibles that would see him through a big lump who lost to Larry Middleton, Jack Bodell, and who scraped by an antique Henry Cooper on a controversial decision. Muhammad Ali put Bugner in his shell. So would the Rock.

You are an idiot.

This has nothing to do with Frazier.

I truly believe Bugner beats Rocky.

yancey wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:What nonsense in this thread. Yancey's agenda here is that his idol Joe Frazier beat Bugner, therefore he needs to convince people Bugner beats Rocky Marciano in order to further boost Frazier's reputation.

Joe Frazier is great independent of his fight with Joe Bugner. There's no need to slander Marciano, or undermine his fighting prowess, just to give Smokin' Joe some more glory.

Any sensible person can watch the Marciano fights and see that he possessed intangibles that would see him through a big lump who lost to Larry Middleton, Jack Bodell, and who scraped by an antique Henry Cooper on a controversial decision. Muhammad Ali put Bugner in his shell. So would the Rock.

You are an idiot.

This has nothing to do with Frazier.

I truly believe Bugner beats Rocky.

No you don't.

If you truly believed Bugner would beat Rocky, you wouldn't need to invent this fantasy version of Bugner who performs better than he ever did in his real-life career.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

yancey wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:What nonsense in this thread. Yancey's agenda here is that his idol Joe Frazier beat Bugner, therefore he needs to convince people Bugner beats Rocky Marciano in order to further boost Frazier's reputation.

Joe Frazier is great independent of his fight with Joe Bugner. There's no need to slander Marciano, or undermine his fighting prowess, just to give Smokin' Joe some more glory.

Any sensible person can watch the Marciano fights and see that he possessed intangibles that would see him through a big lump who lost to Larry Middleton, Jack Bodell, and who scraped by an antique Henry Cooper on a controversial decision. Muhammad Ali put Bugner in his shell. So would the Rock.

You are an idiot.

This has nothing to do with Frazier.

I truly believe Bugner beats Rocky.

No you don't.

If you truly believed Bugner would beat Rocky, you wouldn't need to invent this fantasy version of Bugner who performs better than he ever did in his real-life career.

So are we trying to be a mind reader?

You're not astute enough, bud.

Once again, I truly think Bugner beats Rocky.

And as far as people rising to the occasion and performing better than their track record would indicate, it happens.

Witness Douglas against Tyson.

And you are still an idiot.

mercman wrote:

yancey wrote:

mercman wrote:

Yeah, very good summary, that Bodyshot. That's how I see it going.

Yeah, good analysis except you got the winner wrong.

Bugner is too damn big for Rocky.

Bugner figures that out by the middle rounds, his confidence goes through the roof, and he pulls away for the win.

Bugner is obviously a lot bigger than Marciano (6 inches taller, a much longer reach and 2 stone heavier) but a young Bugner is also very mobile and has fast hands so he's got all the tools. Plus good whiskers, which is just as well. But still I don't see him winning.

Bugner's first instinct was defence and basically he was a survivor. I just don't think he would have had the mentality to take it Rocky - although he did come firing back at Frazier when the chips were down, so you never know. Then again, little Marvis was able to hustle (an ageing) Bugner out of it...

You're on the right train of thought. The real life Joe Bugner is far more likely to reveal himself versus the unforgiving pressure of Rocky Marciano than the fable warrior Bugner that yancey is desperate to conjure up.

mercman wrote:

yancey wrote:

mercman wrote:

Yeah, very good summary, that Bodyshot. That's how I see it going.

Yeah, good analysis except you got the winner wrong.

Bugner is too damn big for Rocky.

Bugner figures that out by the middle rounds, his confidence goes through the roof, and he pulls away for the win.

Bugner is obviously a lot bigger than Marciano (6 inches taller, a much longer reach and 2 stone heavier) but a young Bugner is also very mobile and has fast hands so he's got all the tools. Plus good whiskers, which is just as well. But still I don't see him winning.

Bugner's first instinct was defence and basically he was a survivor. I just don't think he would have had the mentality to take it Rocky - although he did come firing back at Frazier when the chips were down, so you never know. Then again, little Marvis was able to hustle (an ageing) Bugner out of it...

Bugner's mentality might well change once he has had a few rounds with Rocky and starts figuring out the 49-0 thing might not be all it is cracked up to be.

Bugner by UD.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

mercman wrote:

yancey wrote:


Yeah, good analysis except you got the winner wrong.

Bugner is too damn big for Rocky.

Bugner figures that out by the middle rounds, his confidence goes through the roof, and he pulls away for the win.

Bugner is obviously a lot bigger than Marciano (6 inches taller, a much longer reach and 2 stone heavier) but a young Bugner is also very mobile and has fast hands so he's got all the tools. Plus good whiskers, which is just as well. But still I don't see him winning.

Bugner's first instinct was defence and basically he was a survivor. I just don't think he would have had the mentality to take it Rocky - although he did come firing back at Frazier when the chips were down, so you never know. Then again, little Marvis was able to hustle (an ageing) Bugner out of it...

You're on the right train of thought. The real life Joe Bugner is far more likely to reveal himself versus the unforgiving pressure of Rocky Marciano than the fable warrior Bugner that yancey is desperate to conjure up.

btw, there are really only two things I don't much care for about Marciano as a fighter.

1. I don't like dirty fighting. The Cockell fight was disgusting.

2. His list of opponents was loaded with cans. I mean, he fought three straight guys with losing records less than two years from becoming champ. One of them had 3 wins and 13 losses!

Outside the ring, I'm sure the Rock was a great guy and may he RIP.

And you are still an idiot.

mercman wrote:Yancey, there's no need to be abusive, mate. I've had disagreements with Jim before but he's certainly no idiot.

Come on, let's all play nicely

Are you talking about the "mind reader"?

I "LIKED" JOE BUGNER he was very COLORFUL. To look at this from start it's A LAUGH! I mean.....their ratings are 100 miles apart. Joe Bugner had the possibility to "surprise". He maybe could of "hung with" Marciano. But, the "question" is as surprising as the matchmaking, Khan Vs Canelo! : )
Probably The Rock we know stops JOE BUGNER 6 r.

yancey wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

yancey wrote:Bugner's confidence continually grows and he becomes more aggressive as he realizes he is the stronger man.

When did this ever happen?

Always a first time, bud.

Things do happen, people can change and rise to the occasion.

Sorry you are blinkered you just can't see.

But I wish I could bet some of you guys on this one.

What the hell a ya! I take a leave of absence for 6 weeks and i come back to this......I nearly died of laughter...reading here yoii bum yancey has joey bugner beating rocky marciano by growing balls!!!!......say fella marciano mercillesly massacres in a,manhatten minute mr bugner

Judah Ben Fur wrote:

yancey wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
When did this ever happen?

Always a first time, bud.

Things do happen, people can change and rise to the occasion.

Sorry you are blinkered you just can't see.

But I wish I could bet some of you guys on this one.

What the hell a ya! I take a leave of absence for 6 weeks and i come back to this......I nearly died of laughter...reading here yoii bum yancey has joey bugner beating rocky marciano by growing balls!!!!......say fella marciano mercillesly massacres in a,manhatten minute mr bugner

In tribute to your incoherent, filled with grammatical errors "contribution", I change my call from Bugner by UD to Bugner by late TKO.

Yeah. BY ALL ACCONTS ROCKY BREAKS JOE BUGNER! But....."outside chance" Joe Bugner possibly makes is a "good" battle. LIKE HE DID VS FRAZIER!

Bugner indeed gave a past prime Frazier a hell of a battle. He came close to winning.

I think he gets the job done against Rocky.

Bugner would doubtless come in wary, but once he has a few rounds with Rocky he would realize that he is superior physically to Rocky.

His confidence would build and he would win in the stretch.

yancey wrote:Bugner indeed gave a past prime Frazier a hell of a battle. He came close to winning.

I think he gets the job done against Rocky.

Bugner would doubtless come in wary, but once he has a few rounds with Rocky he would realize that he is superior physically to Rocky.

His confidence would build and he would win in the stretch.

guu guu gah gah!

Cygnus475 wrote:Well he lost to frazier pretty decisively but managed to look ok in spurts. Frazier is a more polished version of rocky so it's kind of a toss up.

I guess it depends on where you rate Rocky's power compared to shavers. Personally I have shavers one or two notches higher but given the enormous height and reach difference I see rocky strugglung from start to finish either way.

If I had to guess, rocky via lopsided split decision in a frustrating fight. It might resemble the Tyson vs green fight.

Frazier was coming off being bounced around the ring like a basketball by Foreman & was past it when he fought Bugner.

Although Bugner has the size & skill advantage, he was soo safety first & passive to beat Marciano.

Marciano would probably have struggled with Bugner, but I think Rock's pressure would have been the deciding factor in giving him a close UD.

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