BoxRec

Mexi-Box wrote:Only Duhaupas. Adamek is beyond shot; although, Helenius was coming off a long layoff. He's by all means shot as well, but it was surprising. Molina and Adamek were very even until the KO. It's pretty bad struggling against a shot Adamek.

Helenius had 3 fights in 2015. You are confused. He took off between 2013 and 2014.

Next excuse........

Once again, most folks here are completely dismissing Molina. This, after he rose to the occasion & KO'd Adamek while behind on points for the biggest victory of his career since retiring both Tony Grano & DaVarryl Williamson in back to back wins a couple of years back.
Now, I'm not saying that Molina is a world beater & en route to winning a title. But, c'mon. The guy has some skills, carries big power, always shows up in shape & has a lot of heart. He definitely belongs in the top 20 IMO.
Yeah, most people still can't seem to get past the fact that the first time that they ever saw him fight he was stopped in one round by Chris Arreola, but shit like that frequently happens in the heavyweight division. So what? I think he's redeemed himself since that loss. And, in a rematch ( which I sincerely doubt that Arreola's people would ever OK ), I'd pick Molina to turn the tables & gain revenge.
In fact, come to think of it, there's a fight that I'd like to see. Arreola's last opponent Travis Kauffman ( who beat him, but was given a raw deal by the judges before Arreola's piss test came back positive for ganja, thus making the bout a no contest ) would be a good match up for Molina. It'd make for a good crossroads fight if nothing bigger or better presents itself to either man.
I'd pick Molina via KO.
Fact is, there are a LOT of good, interesting matches to be made with Molina.
Hopefully, some of them will get made.

I really does not matter. may 21st. he is going to fight Potvetkin and he will be judged on that fight. It is a step up from everything else he has done. Either he will come across as legit or just another propped up bum with a padded record. That is all that matters.

To an extent

They were poor choice, nothing will change that
And the wins his 2 victims had don't automatically make them world class, but I'll be first to admit I expected both to lose this weekend

they both go up in my estimations, therefore Wilders wins must too.

But let's not get carried away.

All in all though, between these results and Wilder, not only taking the Povetkin fight, but travelling to Russia to do it, Wilders answered a lot of his critics (Me) and deserves some credit.

I still think Povetkin will ruin him but I might just be rooting for Deontay come fight night

In Duhaupas his fight before, he couldn't KO his opponend at all, while this opponend got KOed by everybody who's considered good. Takam 4, Whyte 2, Fury 6, so, compared to the top, Duhaupas knows his spot.

asdfjkl wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:

pound per pound wrote:

I agree with this. While WIlder's resume looks a little better on paper, it doesn't if you saw the fights.

Wilder picked soft touches and was exposed in victory beating both of them. If he can defeat Povetkin, then he'll get full respect, but he won't.

Povetkin isn't better than Duhaupas.

Duhaupas just don't have French oligarch behind him, to buy him fixed fights in Paris

Are you joking, drunk, or do I never have to take you serious again?

For being taken serious - I have my business

Povetkin is a fighter I seen a lot (20 years of business in Russia, and they translated all his fights...including jokes like Larry Donald and Hasim Rahman). So I do not understand all this hipe around him at this forum.

The guy is clumsy, has no punch, blocks jabs with his nose and dives to opponent armpits when hit. He considered to be durable, but the only one who hit him till now was Huck...and Povetkin didn't know what corner to go after last rounds

After Olimpics was pampered well by Sauerland, got WBA belt against Chagayev (was boring like funeral), was beaten by Huck(judges saved him his belt), made 2 defenses against Warwzik and old&fat Rahman. At this stage Sauerland got enought of him and he moved to Russian clown Hrunov (with Riabinski as a wallet). They built patriotic hoopla around him, paid Klitchko 17M to come to Moscow and keep Povetkin on his feet for 12 rounds. Now they are paying 5M to Wilder...

And Sasha is 37yo....real prospect

Adamek is a shot fighter. I had a feeling he'd get KOed by Molina.

Helenius has looked poor since coming back.

Oke, you're nuts, you probably haven't even seen the Huck fight, otherwise you would have known that the reason Povetkin won was because Huck didn't fight back. This way Povetkin became the only guy I know that won a boxing match while hitting the wall (for 5 rounds!). Klitschko lost both his matches immedietly once he suffered from it.
If you also say he has no punch, then what do you call his last three opponends?

asdfjkl wrote:Oke, you're nuts, you probably haven't even seen the Huck fight, otherwise you would have known that the reason Povetkin won was because Huck didn't fight back. This way Povetkin became the only guy I know that won a boxing match while hitting the wall (for 5 rounds!). Klitschko lost both his matches immedietly once he suffered from it.
If you also say he has no punch, then what do you call his last three opponends?

Wach TKO? Be serious...

Takam? Stopped defend himself at end of 9th and it took Povetkin 2 minutes to produce a punch, so Takam could dive without being too suspicious

Perez even didn't start defend himself

Every Russian I know have no doubt regarding the nature of fights arranged in Russia...

Opponents wise they would be acceptable if it was a non-title fight.

Neither deserved a shot at a world title yet both rank in Wilders top 5 wins.

Both probably took a lot of confidence in their displays against Wilder which helped on the weekend.

Lancenix wrote:I really does not matter. may 21st. he is going to fight Potvetkin and he will be judged on that fight. It is a step up from everything else he has done. Either he will come across as legit or just another propped up bum with a padded record. That is all that matters.

Excellent post.

Perseus wrote:

Lancenix wrote:I really does not matter. may 21st. he is going to fight Potvetkin and he will be judged on that fight. It is a step up from everything else he has done. Either he will come across as legit or just another propped up bum with a padded record. That is all that matters.

Excellent post.

x2. The Povetkin fight will prove once and for all if Wilder is real or a phony.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Perseus wrote:

Lancenix wrote:I really does not matter. may 21st. he is going to fight Potvetkin and he will be judged on that fight. It is a step up from everything else he has done. Either he will come across as legit or just another propped up bum with a padded record. That is all that matters.

Excellent post.

x2. The Povetkin fight will prove once and for all if Wilder is real or a phony.

If my memory serves me right, some very similar things were said before he fought Stiverne.

Badhusker wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Perseus wrote:

Excellent post.

x2. The Povetkin fight will prove once and for all if Wilder is real or a phony.

If my memory serves me right, some very similar things were said before he fought Stiverne.

Stiverne beated one subtop fighter in his whole carreer, that pod smoking fatty, I can't remember his name any more. Povetkin swiped out about ten boxers between rank 3 and 20...

Taki... wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

Taki... wrote:
Early in his career? He was literally fighting Jason Gavern 5 fights and 18 months ago.

And Joshua fought the same Gavern just last year. Before that I believe Wilder had Liakovich, Scott, Firtha, Harrison, and a couple younger undefeated guys. After Gavern he fought Stiverne, so probably a tune up. None of the above guys are great fighters, but several have been in with some of the best, so the experience he got from it was good.

No one that I know of has bragged about Wilder's resume, but I do think he was brought along at the right pace, considering his very limited amateur experience. Wilder has beaten two guys now that have beat Adamek. He may be on his way out now, but one of them was 2 years ago. (Szpilka) Hopefully his resume will continue to get better.

None of the fighters you mention are much more than fodder for prospects. Adamek should've retired half a decade ago.
And how many years of being a professional boxer does Wilder need to have before 'limited amateur experience' stops being an excuse? 10, 15, 20?

I said none of the above guys are great fighters, if you take the time to read what I posted. To answer your question, I think it varies a lot. Some fighters progress faster than others. When a level of skill is developed where his trainer thinks he is ready to compete at the top level, that is when it happens. Sometimes opportunities come up before they are ready. There is no magic number. How many amateur fights are enough, or too many? Some have 20, some have 300+.

bigman1968 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:
Povetkin isn't better than Duhaupas.

Duhaupas just don't have French oligarch behind him, to buy him fixed fights in Paris

Are you joking, drunk, or do I never have to take you serious again?

For being taken serious - I have my business

Povetkin is a fighter I seen a lot (20 years of business in Russia, and they translated all his fights...including jokes like Larry Donald and Hasim Rahman). So I do not understand all this hipe around him at this forum.

The guy is clumsy, has no punch, blocks jabs with his nose and dives to opponent armpits when hit. He considered to be durable, but the only one who hit him till now was Huck...and Povetkin didn't know what corner to go after last rounds

After Olimpics was pampered well by Sauerland, got WBA belt against Chagayev (was boring like funeral), was beaten by Huck(judges saved him his belt), made 2 defenses against Warwzik and old&fat Rahman. At this stage Sauerland got enought of him and he moved to Russian clown Hrunov (with Riabinski as a wallet). They built patriotic hoopla around him, paid Klitchko 17M to come to Moscow and keep Povetkin on his feet for 12 rounds. Now they are paying 5M to Wilder...

And Sasha is 37yo....real prospect

Do you really want to break down Wilder's fighting style??

Badhusker wrote:

Taki... wrote:

Badhusker wrote:

And Joshua fought the same Gavern just last year. Before that I believe Wilder had Liakovich, Scott, Firtha, Harrison, and a couple younger undefeated guys. After Gavern he fought Stiverne, so probably a tune up. None of the above guys are great fighters, but several have been in with some of the best, so the experience he got from it was good.

No one that I know of has bragged about Wilder's resume, but I do think he was brought along at the right pace, considering his very limited amateur experience. Wilder has beaten two guys now that have beat Adamek. He may be on his way out now, but one of them was 2 years ago. (Szpilka) Hopefully his resume will continue to get better.

None of the fighters you mention are much more than fodder for prospects. Adamek should've retired half a decade ago.
And how many years of being a professional boxer does Wilder need to have before 'limited amateur experience' stops being an excuse? 10, 15, 20?

I said none of the above guys are great fighters, if you take the time to read what I posted. To answer your question, I think it varies a lot. Some fighters progress faster than others. When a level of skill is developed where his trainer thinks he is ready to compete at the top level, that is when it happens. Sometimes opportunities come up before they are ready. There is no magic number. How many amateur fights are enough, or too many? Some have 20, some have 300+.

'Not great' is being over generous.
Wilder's problem has never been his lack of amateur experience. He lacks talent. Something that can't be taught. Certain fundamentals that do not rely on talent -- conditioning, power, a decent jab -- can be worked on and improved, but the fact Wilder still looks awkward so often after so long as a professional suggests that there's little, if anything, more that can be improved.

I thought Molina was a terrible choice when it was announced, while watching it and still do even now.
Beating an undersized and over the hill Adanek doesn't change my opinion on that front, but it was a good win for Molina and should set him up for another payday, good for him.

Duhaupas, on the other hand was already a solid European level heavyweight when he fought Wilder and he showed that again at the weekend. I'm not that surprised he beat Helenious, but I am surprised at the nature of the victory.
The biggest critism I had of Duhaupas' selection by Wilder's team was his recent loss to Teper, but since then Teper has been proven to be a drug cheat, thus throwing that defeat into some doubt.

Not that any of that matters, as people have already stated, if he beats povetkin it will be a career best win for him and essentially make all previous opposition (no matter how uninspiring) irrelevant

asdfjkl wrote:

conty22 wrote:Povetkin is a overrated clown with no jab , no reach and no footwork . Wilder kills this fool inside nine rounds.

Same goes for Grabimir Cinschko.

Povetkin and Klitschko are both overrated bums. They never won against a decent tall outside fighter.

Both are bums and Fury and Wilder will destroy them

They might nowadays, but when they had the same age? I very much doubt it.

Lol Povetkin is in his prime. In old times he was a fat cow so i have no idea what you talking about. Your excuses are just pathetic because you know Wilder is going to destroy this fool.

Tyson Fury beats any version of Grabimir Clinschko. Name me one decent and tall boxer against who Wladimir won ?

Wladimir's opponents are one dimensional bums with no jab , 188 cm with short reach and no defence. Tyson Fury exposed him.

Wladimir has only jab and grab style and it works only against brainless bums like Povetkin with zero defence hahaha.

Tyson Fury exposed him

Lancenix wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote: Are you joking, drunk, or do I never have to take you serious again?

For being taken serious - I have my business

Povetkin is a fighter I seen a lot (20 years of business in Russia, and they translated all his fights...including jokes like Larry Donald and Hasim Rahman). So I do not understand all this hipe around him at this forum.

The guy is clumsy, has no punch, blocks jabs with his nose and dives to opponent armpits when hit. He considered to be durable, but the only one who hit him till now was Huck...and Povetkin didn't know what corner to go after last rounds

After Olimpics was pampered well by Sauerland, got WBA belt against Chagayev (was boring like funeral), was beaten by Huck(judges saved him his belt), made 2 defenses against Warwzik and old&fat Rahman. At this stage Sauerland got enought of him and he moved to Russian clown Hrunov (with Riabinski as a wallet). They built patriotic hoopla around him, paid Klitchko 17M to come to Moscow and keep Povetkin on his feet for 12 rounds. Now they are paying 5M to Wilder...

And Sasha is 37yo....real prospect

Do you really want to break down Wilder's fighting style??

It's too obvious...the man is far from Ali

But, Wilder is commonly hated at this forum, unlike Povetkin, that are admired here. And I really don't understand why...

bigman1968 wrote:

Lancenix wrote:

bigman1968 wrote:
For being taken serious - I have my business

Povetkin is a fighter I seen a lot (20 years of business in Russia, and they translated all his fights...including jokes like Larry Donald and Hasim Rahman). So I do not understand all this hipe around him at this forum.

The guy is clumsy, has no punch, blocks jabs with his nose and dives to opponent armpits when hit. He considered to be durable, but the only one who hit him till now was Huck...and Povetkin didn't know what corner to go after last rounds

After Olimpics was pampered well by Sauerland, got WBA belt against Chagayev (was boring like funeral), was beaten by Huck(judges saved him his belt), made 2 defenses against Warwzik and old&fat Rahman. At this stage Sauerland got enought of him and he moved to Russian clown Hrunov (with Riabinski as a wallet). They built patriotic hoopla around him, paid Klitchko 17M to come to Moscow and keep Povetkin on his feet for 12 rounds. Now they are paying 5M to Wilder...

And Sasha is 37yo....real prospect

Do you really want to break down Wilder's fighting style??

It's too obvious...the man is far from Ali

But, Wilder is commonly hated at this forum, unlike Povetkin, that are admired here. And I really don't understand why...

Because Wilder his behaviour perhaps? Big mouth, lack of skills, never fighting any real top opponend, avoiding Klitschko, avoiding, avoiding everybody who has a chance to beat him and meanwhile occusing others of using peds, occusing others of beïng scared of him instead of the other way around, he's just a silly boy acting like a prick.

conty22 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

conty22 wrote:Povetkin is a overrated clown with no jab , no reach and no footwork . Wilder kills this fool inside nine rounds.

Same goes for Grabimir Cinschko.

Povetkin and Klitschko are both overrated bums. They never won against a decent tall outside fighter.

Both are bums and Fury and Wilder will destroy them

They might nowadays, but when they had the same age? I very much doubt it.

Lol Povetkin is in his prime. In old times he was a fat cow so i have no idea what you talking about. Your excuses are just pathetic because you know Wilder is going to destroy this fool.

Tyson Fury beats any version of Grabimir Clinschko. Name me one decent and tall boxer against who Wladimir won ?

Wladimir's opponents are one dimensional bums with no jab , 188 cm with short reach and no defence. Tyson Fury exposed him.

Wladimir has only jab and grab style and it works only against brainless bums like Povetkin with zero defence hahaha.

Tyson Fury exposed him

Lol, "let's make sure he can't ever prove me wrong and it will prove me right".

Silly style, my grandma would have knocked the crap out of Tyson Fury, but yea, Tyson didn't dare the challenge at the time.


*lol, he can't prove me wrong anyway, so I'm right*

asdfjkl wrote:

conty22 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote: They might nowadays, but when they had the same age? I very much doubt it.

Lol Povetkin is in his prime. In old times he was a fat cow so i have no idea what you talking about. Your excuses are just pathetic because you know Wilder is going to destroy this fool.

Tyson Fury beats any version of Grabimir Clinschko. Name me one decent and tall boxer against who Wladimir won ?

Wladimir's opponents are one dimensional bums with no jab , 188 cm with short reach and no defence. Tyson Fury exposed him.

Wladimir has only jab and grab style and it works only against brainless bums like Povetkin with zero defence hahaha.

Tyson Fury exposed him

Lol, "let's make sure he can't ever prove me wrong and it will prove me right".

Silly style, my grandma would have knocked the crap out of Tyson Fury, but yea, Tyson didn't dare the challenge at the time.


*lol, he can't prove me wrong anyway, so I'm right*

So you admit that Klitschko sucks and your gradmother is better than this overrated wannabie boxer? He is not even a boxer . He is a fornicating cheater and judo clincher

conty22 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

conty22 wrote:

Lol Povetkin is in his prime. In old times he was a fat cow so i have no idea what you talking about. Your excuses are just pathetic because you know Wilder is going to destroy this fool.

Tyson Fury beats any version of Grabimir Clinschko. Name me one decent and tall boxer against who Wladimir won ?

Wladimir's opponents are one dimensional bums with no jab , 188 cm with short reach and no defence. Tyson Fury exposed him.

Wladimir has only jab and grab style and it works only against brainless bums like Povetkin with zero defence hahaha.

Tyson Fury exposed him

Lol, "let's make sure he can't ever prove me wrong and it will prove me right".

Silly style, my grandma would have knocked the crap out of Tyson Fury, but yea, Tyson didn't dare the challenge at the time.


*lol, he can't prove me wrong anyway, so I'm right*

So you admit that Klitschko sucks and your gradmother is better than this overrated wannabie boxer? He is not even a boxer . He is a effing cheater and judo clincher

No, Klitschko doesn't suck, he's just getting old, that's all, both Klitschko's dominated the entire world for about 20 years in totall, even most of their loses they were clearly the better boxer. I'm more impressed by Vitali his performance, but I'm also quite impressed by what Wlad had done in his carreer.

I disagree when you claim that a 20 year old Fury would win against a 20 year old Klitschko, either Klitschko.
Same story if both were 30, or 40, I just can't prove it because they simply don't have the same age.

Molina is still worthless.

But his win over Duhaupas went WAAAAAY up in my opinion.