CharlesListon wrote:For what it's worth it think Martin was very clever.
In a weak and fragmented h/w division he got to be a contender/ challenger by default. When a guy's highlight reel consists of stopping a shell of Tom Dallas and an overweight Latino you know the level we're at.
He was pretty much gifted the title. Deep down, beneath all the bravado and self belief Martin knew his level. The training camp footage out at Big Bear showed a reasonably fit guy doing very basic stuff, very basically. Nothing more. He knew. His team knew.
He could have taken on less devastating punchers than AJ for his first defence. He wouldn't have got 5 million. Nowhere near that and there was every chance he would lose.
So, knowing your level and your shelf life you take on a big hitting novice, with a great pedigree and huge casual following and it means you get about 5 times what you'd get fighting anyone else. You're probably going to lose but you might lose in a million dollar fight so you chase the dollars.
AJ did what he does. He kept tight in a first round but Martin didn't try to test his skills.
AJ caught him with a very neat, basic shot and for me Martin did everything he could to not beat the first count without having the humiliation of being counted out on your arse.
He gets up, same thing happens. This time he makes sure he doesn't beat the count buy does an appropriate amount of complaining to look like he cared.
He didn't look upset during the first, no sound dressing room interview. He just seemed to have a five million dollar smile.
AJ did what he had to do. He didn't take a punch back and he learned more from his bout with the world unranked Whyte than this title fight.
AJ needs time to improve and learn. His skills are limited and whilst he has the punch to finish almost anyone out there; he and we need to see it.
Or:
Maybe he'll blast out Povetkin, Fury, Haye, Wilder and Ortiz and clean up without any of us finding out if he lacks stamina, a chin or footwork to get him out of trouble.
Wouldn't that be great?
I give him credit for his attitude, his dedication, his power and would like to thank him for his cross over appeal. Boxing needs it.
He's the IBF Heavyweight Champion of the world. He'll get credit.
keithmoonhangover wrote:
What a load of absolute tosh. You honestly think Martin was in the dressing room before hand planning how he would lose. You think he let AJ hit him in the face?
I never said that. There is so much money in boxing that you only need 1 mega buck fight to set you up financially forlife. do you honestly think Martin loves the sport? Haha, He has done his work now going home healthy and rich.
Does he love the sport? Well, he's spent the last 3 and a 1/2 years training, so my guess s yes.
More importantly, you are saying it's clear that Martin didn't come to win. If that's the case, then he came to lose. So when do you think he make the decision to lose? When he signed for the fight? During training?
I never suggested any of that. What im saying is that he didnt look like he was ever going to win. What did he do in those 4 odd minutes to suggest he was there to win a fight. He didnt look like he was fired up when the ref was giving instructions.
What im saying is that there is so much money in boxing that money is sometimes more important than the challenge. Martin will never get another title shot I wouldnt have thought. Yes he was champ by the means of a stripped title, he was lucky in respect that he won a version of the title. He cashed that privlidge in. Im sure Martin has worked hard over the years and its paid off. Good on him, im not complaining that fact.
Ive only seen 1 person in the build up that thought Martin was going to win. Whats that saying? We are all arm chair critics thats all.
Tuan_Jim wrote:All Martin had was an opponent who injured himself and a belt. Martin had never done anything of note and collapsed the first time he was hit. Beating him is nothing to rave over. Even Joshua shrugged at the anti climax of it all.
Whyte while far from great is obviously the tougher guy and the better fighter.
It was very clever from Martin. He really cashed out. He probably did think he had some kind of chance but once he got in there and realized how good AJ is, he was happy to collect his 5 million and go home. He's made enough money to retire happily and live very comfortably. I don't think it's fair to say he didn't think he would win - he was up against a stiff 15 fight novice after all. But I think his mentality was, "win or lose, im happy with the 5 mill"
keithmoonhangover wrote:
Well, this says otherwise....
Its just my opinion mate that all.
I understand that mate. I just can't understand why anyone would think he would turn up with the intention of losing.
I dont think anyone turns up with the intention of losing, but they dont turn up thinking that they can win. For example. Frank Bruno v Mike Tyson 2. I dont think Frank turned up with the intebtion of losing, but I dont think he would have been 100% certain within himself that he could have beaten Mike. We all get scared sometimes and this must put doubt in your mindset.
mimmy123 wrote:
Its just my opinion mate that all.
I understand that mate. I just can't understand why anyone would think he would turn up with the intention of losing.
I dont think anyone turns up with the intention of losing, but they dont turn up thinking that they can win. For example. Frank Bruno v Mike Tyson 2. I dont think Frank turned up with the intebtion of losing, but I dont think he would have been 100% certain within himself that he could have beaten Mike. We all get scared sometimes and this must put doubt in your mindset.
Bruno would have believed he could do it because he did hurt Tyson in that first fight. He would have thought he was really up against it but would have definitely have gone in thinking he was going to win. Besides journeymen who make their trade losing fights, I really doubt that a lot of fighters go in there fully expecting to lose. No way Martin went in knowing he was beaten before the bell rang for me. I think thats something a fighter decides during a fight and I think Martin made that decision when he was on the canvas for the first time.
keithmoonhangover wrote:
I understand that mate. I just can't understand why anyone would think he would turn up with the intention of losing.
I dont think anyone turns up with the intention of losing, but they dont turn up thinking that they can win. For example. Frank Bruno v Mike Tyson 2. I dont think Frank turned up with the intebtion of losing, but I dont think he would have been 100% certain within himself that he could have beaten Mike. We all get scared sometimes and this must put doubt in your mindset.
Bruno would have believed he could do it because he did hurt Tyson in that first fight. He would have thought he was really up against it but would have definitely have gone in thinking he was going to win. Besides journeymen who make their trade losing fights, I really doubt that a lot of fighters go in there fully expecting to lose. No way Martin went in knowing he was beaten before the bell rang for me. I think thats something a fighter decides during a fight and I think Martin made that decision when he was on the canvas for the first time.
Bruno was a beaten man going into the Tyson rematch - his ringwalk told you absolutely everything you needed to know.
TheLeprechaun wrote:It was very clever from Martin. He really cashed out. He probably did think he had some kind of chance but once he got in there and realized how good AJ is, he was happy to collect his 5 million and go home. He's made enough money to retire happily and live very comfortably. I don't think it's fair to say he didn't think he would win - he was up against a stiff 15 fight novice after all. But I think his mentality was, "win or lose, im happy with the 5 mill"
Oh come on.... He's hardly Einstein for being offered 5 mill and taking it. I'd take 1 mill or even less to be knocked out by Joshua.... Anyone disagreeing is either a coward or hasnt thought it through properly.
fornicate it, I'd take 50 grand... Just to be made unconscious? No problem
I think you can tell when a boxer is a beaten man before the bell rings. His body language shows you what is going on in his head.
Ive never seen a boxer that i could say took a dive deliberately but if i knew i was going to get 5 mill and my head was talking sense in terms of 'you know whats going to happen here dont you' i think i would give show just to prove i was a man and not a coward but when that first cruncher comes and does not taste too nice the thought of 5 million many cruiseship holidays, lovely car, huge house and plenty of birds would help me stay down. Pointless being a hero and taking too much and end up in a hospital bed or worse when i have 5 million to get through.
Martin most likely knows his limits and played it very nicely, hes gone home happy as larry and content kbowing that he was the luckiest man on the planet just to get a title shot anyway.
Nightmare Roy wrote:It doesn't matter where he was ranked, there are a hell of a lot more than 10 HW's who would beat Martin out there. He wasn't a world champion, he won a title that was stolen from the true champion because his opponent got injured. He's doing great but to hear sky and the know nothing casuals talk you would think He's the reincarnation of Joe Louis. He could well become the best but he's a long way off.
It does matter where he was ranked. Joshua beat a contender with a fake title. Martin beat a guy who had beaten Scott, Adamek and Cunningham.
If Joshua had fought a trash can he would get stick, he fights a contender, beats him easy and still gets stick.
I think Joshua is developing as well as could be expected, but even in a weak division Martin was never a top ten fighter. Glazkov fell over FFS, it was a completely facile win.
I don't think he came to loose but I reckon when he sat down on his stool at the end of round one he knew he wasnae winning.
The hype train is hard to watch but that's Hearns job. Good luck to him.
Credit for winning. But I have not learned anything new. He smash unskilled, fat, American football player as I always expected he would. Whyte fight was tougher and better gauge for where Joshua is in my opinion.
Martin may well have thought he had a chance of winning the fight going in but I think that changed when he took the first shot to the chin.
Sometimes guys realise they are in too deep and the ring becomes a very small place for them. I reckon thats what happened last night, i think his legs looked strong enough when he got up from the second knockdown that he could have easily timed the count better and carried on but he wouldnt have lasted the round.
Taking the fight against Joshua was a smart decision financially. Martin is probably poor enough that he could have lost his title in his first defence against any other contender anyway so he cashed out. He may be embarrassed about how quick and easily he was put aside but his bank balance will be healthy without him every lacing another pair of gloves.
For me he does get credits, not that he's clearly the rank one or something, but just by watching the fight, he completely dominated all of his opponends and he fought more boxrec top 100 opponends as Deontay Wilder has for example.
Only Dillian Whyte managed to (just!) win one round, but that same Whyte KOed 4 differend opponends of Parker faster as Parker did and Parker is ranked 1 for the WBO title for example. In other words, Dillian Whyte is a serious top contender, especially if he's 100% fit.
mimmy123 wrote:
I dont think anyone turns up with the intention of losing, but they dont turn up thinking that they can win. For example. Frank Bruno v Mike Tyson 2. I dont think Frank turned up with the intebtion of losing, but I dont think he would have been 100% certain within himself that he could have beaten Mike. We all get scared sometimes and this must put doubt in your mindset.
Bruno would have believed he could do it because he did hurt Tyson in that first fight. He would have thought he was really up against it but would have definitely have gone in thinking he was going to win. Besides journeymen who make their trade losing fights, I really doubt that a lot of fighters go in there fully expecting to lose. No way Martin went in knowing he was beaten before the bell rang for me. I think thats something a fighter decides during a fight and I think Martin made that decision when he was on the canvas for the first time.
Bruno was a beaten man going into the Tyson rematch - his ringwalk told you absolutely everything you needed to know.
Exactly right. I think he blessed himself on 17 occassions from the ringwalk to the start of the fight. The look on his face heading to the ring said it all.
Let's put things into perspective ,who is Charles Martin ?!
Was there any one that gave Martin a chance ?
Not me , and that title that AJ is wearing has zero value until he beats the legitimate heavyweight champion that it was stripped from .
AJ gets credit for doing absolutely nothing wrong on the night
AJ gets credit for beating a reasonable opponent, the level of guy he should be facing at this stage of his development (his last fight was at domestic level, this fight was a similar level of opponent, but brought different attributes, higher profile etc.)
But let's not get silly.
Martin is not, was not, never has been and never will be top ten anything.
He was ranked outside the top 30 when he got his title chance, he beat a guy by knee injury who was likely slightly over-rated himself, being around the 10 mark.
Admittedly, I wouldn't be knocking AJ or anyone else if this was not being sold as a world title match.
But the fact of the matter, which we cannot avoid, is that it was sold as a world title fight. Aj will now be marketed as a legitimate world champion.
AJ has received praise and credit for what was a flawless performance. But he bowled over a bum and regardless of what some may or may not have said beforehand regards Charles Martin and his chances, the manner in which he "competed" last night tells me everything I need to know about how good a fighter he is and the manner in which he capitulated last night tells me everything about the will to win he brought to this "contest"
The fact is, some thought he was a contender. Some posted videos of his "highlight reel" and proclaimed him no more than gate keeper level.
We all know now he's bang average
