BoxRec

Sklar wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:For me there is no American out there that can even get close near the level of Dillian Whyte, but whatever.

All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

A lot of money at the top, but you have to be at the very top. For the big, athletic guys you're better off aiming for a career in american football.

Sklar wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:For me there is no American out there that can even get close near the level of Dillian Whyte, but whatever.

All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

Correct, but you see it, Deontay Wilder looks like an allmost normal guy and everybody below him is clearly a lot worse as the UK top. At this moment I really think Wilder will at least have trouble with the UK subtop, but very likely will lose against the top 3 of the UK.
I think Fury, AJ and Whyte will all beat Wilder and there's a reason Wilder never challenged Hughie any more, even Haye and Chisora have quite a chance I think.

Haye would flatten Wilder and Del would have a decent chance too

the_doctor wrote:

Sklar wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:For me there is no American out there that can even get close near the level of Dillian Whyte, but whatever.

All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

A lot of money at the top, but you have to be at the very top. For the big, athletic guys you're better off aiming for a career in american football.

Up to a point but there are still millions of lads who are never going to get a football scholarship, for all manner of reasons, who it would be worth giving it a go in the gym for a couple of years to find out what if. Those jailhouses are chock full with brothers you could make heavyweights out of.

Yes, people tend to say its football and basketball that takes the potential heavyweight greats but in all probability its the crack economy that is the cause.

dr_devious wrote:Haye would flatten Wilder and Del would have a decent chance too

Dereck Chisora couldn't knock out a greenfly.

Syntax Error wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Haye would flatten Wilder and Del would have a decent chance too

Dereck Chisora couldn't knock out a greenfly.

And Malik Scott.

mickey1975 wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Haye would flatten Wilder and Del would have a decent chance too

Dereck Chisora couldn't knock out a greenfly.

And Malik Scott.

Even Maxie Rosenbloom knocked some people out.

Syntax Error wrote:

wesshaw1985 wrote:Hearn: Fury vs. Joshua possible for November, Joshua vs. Haye 2017 - http://www.BS.com/hearn-fury-j ... 17--103352

If I was Hearn, I'd call Haye's bluff & offer him a shot next rather than wait until 2017.

I know he's done nothing to deserve it, but he's been calling out Joshua & he's got a big profile, so the fight would sell out in a flash.

I'm dying to see Haye in a fight where the opponent isn't on life support.

Hearn doesn't think Joshua is ready for Haye right now, he virtually admitted as much in a recent IFL interview. Far too risky to put AJ in with such an explosive puncher whilst he's still relatively inexperienced. Fury offers a much lower risk, although obviously he would still be favourite (or should be, anyway).

the_doctor wrote:

Sklar wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:For me there is no American out there that can even get close near the level of Dillian Whyte, but whatever.

All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

A lot of money at the top, but you have to be at the very top. For the big, athletic guys you're better off aiming for a career in american football.

People looking for a career or an 'easy' way to make money won't ever become great boxers.
Decent heavyweights are a dime a dozen, these are the types "lost" to the NFL and the NBA. I'm certain there are as many potential Ali and Tyson's in those sports as there are working the doors in pubs and clubs on a Friday night, probably less so actually!
It's not even as if the requirements to except at American football and basketball translate all that well to boxing. Tennis players have more 'natural attributes' to excel at boxing than basketball players or American footballers have in my opinion.

It's always been a cop out. The reason why the US don't produce as many talented heavyweights as they once did is down to their poor amateur program ( where ALL their great heavyweights of the last 50 years have came from ) and lack of quality coaching amongst other things ( world is a bigger place now, especially with the Eastern European fingers now amongst the pros )

The US need to sort out their amatuer boxing program. One bronze medal to show for the last two Olympics and only Andre Ward has won a gold for them since Atlanta. That's shockingly considering their past records.

the_doctor wrote:

Sklar wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:For me there is no American out there that can even get close near the level of Dillian Whyte, but whatever.

All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

A lot of money at the top, but you have to be at the very top. For the big, athletic guys you're better off aiming for a career in american football.

exactly, a mediocre football player will earn way more than a mediocre heavyweight. Plus you're not getting punched in the head repeatedly both in the ring and in training.

The NFL is not without its injuries though, very short careers for a lot of players too. Let's be honest though the division is far more exciting than where we were just a few years ago, some very interesting fights can be made over the next few years, hopefully they get made.

SNG wrote:The NFL is not without its injuries though, very short careers for a lot of players too. Let's be honest though the division is far more exciting than where we were just a few years ago, some very interesting fights can be made over the next few years, hopefully they get made.

Agreed, Wlad losing has rejuvenated the division, as I always expected it to. When you have one guy dominant for so long, it always seems to produce the same effect.

Syntax Error wrote:

dr_devious wrote:Haye would flatten Wilder and Del would have a decent chance too

Dereck Chisora couldn't knock out a greenfly.

He's better than the journeymen who have been taking Wilder into the later rounds of late

i think Bermane Stiverne, he should be more durable,to ask more questions.we didn't learn any thing from the Charles fight. at least we will find out if aj has a jab in stiverne fight

brilo33 wrote:i think Bermane Stiverne, he should be more durable,to ask more questions.we didn't learn any thing from the Charles fight. at least we will find out if aj has a jab in stiverne fight

Agreed.

Stiverne is a good shout; he's tough, but he's beatable & he has some credibility as an opponent.

Sklar wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:For me there is no American out there that can even get close near the level of Dillian Whyte, but whatever.

All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

It's fascinating, the extinction of the great black American heavyweight. It must be the shift in culture of the last couple of decades. I think young men in the ghetto are probably too busy trying to build a career in music to attend one of the few remaining boxing gyms. Perhaps the wayward ones who might once have cultivated some hardness in street fights are already dead, having been shot, or are metaphorically dead, serving 25 years on a drug charge?

I doubt heavyweight boxing has much impinged on black street culture since the Tyson fights in the 1990s. How many young black athletic American ghetto kids grew up rapt with the tedious fencing of Wladimir Klinch-ko on HBO?

Syntax Error wrote:

brilo33 wrote:i think Bermane Stiverne, he should be more durable,to ask more questions.we didn't learn any thing from the Charles fight. at least we will find out if aj has a jab in stiverne fight

Agreed.

Stiverne is a good shout; he's tough, but he's beatable & he has some credibility as an opponent.

Credibility? For what exactly? Surely you are joking....he's one of the worst so called Heavy champs ever.

Stiverne was stopped by Demetrice King. Yes he won against the lard ass Arreola who has lost every big fight.....

But let's be honest, if he fights Stiverne, by the time Sky and Eddie PR machine is moving, Stiverne will be a deadly, durable, dangerous opponent who took devastating puncher Deontay Wilder the distance.... And it will he a 'huge' risk for Joshua to take him on....

After Joshua Ko's a fat Stiverne, Adam Smith (commentating) will be growling and raising his voice excitedly: "That was AMAZING! WHO, but who expected Joshua to stop the iron-chinned Stiverne??! surely no one did! " (Apart from the fact the bookies had it evens that Joshua would stop him.)

Smith continues: "This is something! Murderous punching Deontay Wilder couldn't put Bernard away! But Joshua brushes him aside! Surely no one expected that! Surely we have to think about AJ being possibly the most impressive heavyweight ever?"

"Over to Ed Robinson who's with AJ"

Yaddy yaddy yaddy impressive yaddy yaddy humble yaddy yaddy please fans etc etc etc

Here are some of the people who have fought for a version of the World Title in recent years :
Dereck Chisora
Manuel Charr
Alex Leapai
Francesco Pianeta
Jean Mormeck
Eddie Chambers

Is Stiverne really that bad an opponent for a first defence?

I think it's a decent test, and the fact he took Wilder 12 rounds makes it an easy sell

Stiverene is an acceptable first defense

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Sklar wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:For me there is no American out there that can even get close near the level of Dillian Whyte, but whatever.

All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

It's fascinating, the extinction of the great black American heavyweight. It must be the shift in culture of the last couple of decades. I think young men in the ghetto are probably too busy trying to build a career in music to attend one of the few remaining boxing gyms. Perhaps the wayward ones who might once have cultivated some hardness in street fights are already dead, having been shot, or are metaphorically dead, serving 25 years on a drug charge?

I doubt heavyweight boxing has much impinged on black street culture since the Tyson fights in the 1990s. How many young black athletic American ghetto kids grew up rapt with the tedious fencing of Wladimir Klinch-ko on HBO?

If think it's more to do with the fact that not only has the rest of the world caught up, but that more people in non American countries are now boxing. And Humans are also getting bigger - look at the mix of heavyweights in recent years.... There are so many more nations competing including top 3 Chinese haeavyweights including Zhang Zhilei. Who would've thought it?

Also I believe the inner cities are getting softer. Regardless of all the whingers, the US has an improved welfare system for the inner cities and provides plenty of housing, especially since Obama.

Sport has become truly global, with the extended media and money involved, as well as the breakdown of governing systems that used to be all controlling and not allow pro sports.

Think about it - if it was pre late 90s, at heavy Povetkin, both Klitschkos, Ortiz, Solis, Maskaev, Ibragimov, Liakovich, Pulev, Glazkov, Valuev, Chagaev, Wach, Spilzka, Schulz, Adamek etc etc would not even be fighting pro.

And that is just heavies.. GGG, Kovalev, Lara, Rigondeaux, Postov, Fonfara, Glowacki, Lomachenko, Provodnikov, Lebedev, Huck etc etc would still be amateur.

Also look at other sports - would would've ever though Koreans and Japanese would be playing in Football's top division.?

Black American Heavyweights dominated boxing in the 60s, 70s, 80s because no one else really took part....

Other nations may be catching up but the Yanks are still have many more physically superior people than anywhere else. When I was working with them overseas, the amount of pure units they had was staggering. Those slave genes are something else, there are literally millions of tall, big framed, large wingspan blokes out there.

reggaereggae wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Sklar wrote:
All those millions of big ass black dudes and they can barely put together a loose handful of decent heavies. It seems crazy when there's so much money on offer at the top of the heavyweight division. I don't think it's ever been easier to get a look in.

It's fascinating, the extinction of the great black American heavyweight. It must be the shift in culture of the last couple of decades. I think young men in the ghetto are probably too busy trying to build a career in music to attend one of the few remaining boxing gyms. Perhaps the wayward ones who might once have cultivated some hardness in street fights are already dead, having been shot, or are metaphorically dead, serving 25 years on a drug charge?

I doubt heavyweight boxing has much impinged on black street culture since the Tyson fights in the 1990s. How many young black athletic American ghetto kids grew up rapt with the tedious fencing of Wladimir Klinch-ko on HBO?

If think it's more to do with the fact that not only has the rest of the world caught up, but that more people in non American countries are now boxing. And Humans are also getting bigger - look at the mix of heavyweights in recent years.... There are so many more nations competing including top 3 Chinese haeavyweights including Zhang Zhilei. Who would've thought it?

Also I believe the inner cities are getting softer. Regardless of all the whingers, the US has an improved welfare system for the inner cities and provides plenty of housing, especially since Obama.

Sport has become truly global, with the extended media and money involved, as well as the breakdown of governing systems that used to be all controlling and not allow pro sports.

Think about it - if it was pre late 90s, at heavy Povetkin, both Klitschkos, Ortiz, Solis, Maskaev, Ibragimov, Liakovich, Pulev, Glazkov, Valuev, Chagaev, Wach, Spilzka, Schulz, Adamek etc etc would not even be fighting pro.

And that is just heavies.. GGG, Kovalev, Lara, Rigondeaux, Postov, Fonfara, Glowacki, Lomachenko, Provodnikov, Lebedev, Huck etc etc would still be amateur.

Also look at other sports - would would've ever though Koreans and Japanese would be playing in Football's top division.?

Black American Heavyweights dominated boxing in the 60s, 70s, 80s because no one else really took part....

The Dutch can probably easely dominate in the sport as well. There's a reason Tyson Fury often spars with Dutch kickboxers. The Dutch could probably dominate in Basketball as well, but for some reason they prefere "korfbal". The Dutch used to be the tallest nation in the world, that's why I mention them. I once hoped Olivier Richters would start boxing, but Overeem never introduced him in that sport.

asdfjkl wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
It's fascinating, the extinction of the great black American heavyweight. It must be the shift in culture of the last couple of decades. I think young men in the ghetto are probably too busy trying to build a career in music to attend one of the few remaining boxing gyms. Perhaps the wayward ones who might once have cultivated some hardness in street fights are already dead, having been shot, or are metaphorically dead, serving 25 years on a drug charge?

I doubt heavyweight boxing has much impinged on black street culture since the Tyson fights in the 1990s. How many young black athletic American ghetto kids grew up rapt with the tedious fencing of Wladimir Klinch-ko on HBO?

If think it's more to do with the fact that not only has the rest of the world caught up, but that more people in non American countries are now boxing. And Humans are also getting bigger - look at the mix of heavyweights in recent years.... There are so many more nations competing including top 3 Chinese haeavyweights including Zhang Zhilei. Who would've thought it?

Also I believe the inner cities are getting softer. Regardless of all the whingers, the US has an improved welfare system for the inner cities and provides plenty of housing, especially since Obama.

Sport has become truly global, with the extended media and money involved, as well as the breakdown of governing systems that used to be all controlling and not allow pro sports.

Think about it - if it was pre late 90s, at heavy Povetkin, both Klitschkos, Ortiz, Solis, Maskaev, Ibragimov, Liakovich, Pulev, Glazkov, Valuev, Chagaev, Wach, Spilzka, Schulz, Adamek etc etc would not even be fighting pro.

And that is just heavies.. GGG, Kovalev, Lara, Rigondeaux, Postov, Fonfara, Glowacki, Lomachenko, Provodnikov, Lebedev, Huck etc etc would still be amateur.

Also look at other sports - would would've ever though Koreans and Japanese would be playing in Football's top division.?

Black American Heavyweights dominated boxing in the 60s, 70s, 80s because no one else really took part....

The Dutch can probably easely dominate in the sport as well. There's a reason Tyson Fury often spars with Dutch kickboxers. The Dutch could probably dominate in Basketball as well, but for some reason they prefere "korfbal". The Dutch used to be the tallest nation in the world, that's why I mention them. I once hoped Olivier Richters would start boxing, but Overeem never introduced him in that sport.

They're no bad at windmills too

Stuarty30 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:
If think it's more to do with the fact that not only has the rest of the world caught up, but that more people in non American countries are now boxing. And Humans are also getting bigger - look at the mix of heavyweights in recent years.... There are so many more nations competing including top 3 Chinese haeavyweights including Zhang Zhilei. Who would've thought it?

Also I believe the inner cities are getting softer. Regardless of all the whingers, the US has an improved welfare system for the inner cities and provides plenty of housing, especially since Obama.

Sport has become truly global, with the extended media and money involved, as well as the breakdown of governing systems that used to be all controlling and not allow pro sports.

Think about it - if it was pre late 90s, at heavy Povetkin, both Klitschkos, Ortiz, Solis, Maskaev, Ibragimov, Liakovich, Pulev, Glazkov, Valuev, Chagaev, Wach, Spilzka, Schulz, Adamek etc etc would not even be fighting pro.

And that is just heavies.. GGG, Kovalev, Lara, Rigondeaux, Postov, Fonfara, Glowacki, Lomachenko, Provodnikov, Lebedev, Huck etc etc would still be amateur.

Also look at other sports - would would've ever though Koreans and Japanese would be playing in Football's top division.?

Black American Heavyweights dominated boxing in the 60s, 70s, 80s because no one else really took part....

The Dutch can probably easely dominate in the sport as well. There's a reason Tyson Fury often spars with Dutch kickboxers. The Dutch could probably dominate in Basketball as well, but for some reason they prefere "korfbal". The Dutch used to be the tallest nation in the world, that's why I mention them. I once hoped Olivier Richters would start boxing, but Overeem never introduced him in that sport.

They're no bad at windmills too

Exactly, there's now finaly a Dutch immigrant boxing af the heavyweight league, and he's doing reasonable, but I don't think he will receive more opponends any time soon. Nick Webb (undercard David Haye) could be a good opponend, but since Nick looks so much like David Haye, I'm quite confident Nick doesn't dare to fight Tyrone Spong.