BoxRec

ElJefe wrote:Got to give a mention to James Toney. Never knocked out in 91 fights. It's probably been to his detriment in the long term but he had/has an incredible chin.

More about his defense than his chin. Even when he got tagged he rode shots rather than let them land flush.

magwitch wrote:

forcefraser wrote:There have been some great chins in boxing. Hagler, Holmes, McCall etc.

I was watching a highlight reel of Tommy Hearns and in particular the punch that he threw which poleaxed Duran.

If he caught the likes of Hagler, Holmes etc with that punch would they have stood up to it? or would they have gone the same way as Duran?

For me it was one of the most devastating punches I`ve ever seen land on someone`s chin. Middleweight, heavyweight or whatever, I don`t see how anyone could stand up to that sort of power/speed punch without hitting the deck.

I agree.
Might not have stood up but may have “got up”. Look at Carl Froch and George Groves.
The ones that come from outside your view will put out most fighters. There’s no such thing as a fighter that can’t be KO’d imo.
Even big lumps like Foreman and Lennox went.

How about the fighters that never were KO'd? Could they be KO'd? Lennox never had the best chin despite his size.

Stuarty30 wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:I still don't know how Vitali stayed on his feet with that Lennox uppercut.

The best punch I've seen someone take.

Have to agree mate. Anytime someone mentions 'chin' in a thread that shot instantly springs to mind. It nearly decapitated him and he just shrugged it off! I'm sure I read he got KOd when he done kickboxing. Must've been a proper hard bastard to take him out because he was solid!

Pele Reid did him with a kick. Shin on coupon is a killer!

Tomasino wrote:

magwitch wrote:

forcefraser wrote:There have been some great chins in boxing. Hagler, Holmes, McCall etc.

I was watching a highlight reel of Tommy Hearns and in particular the punch that he threw which poleaxed Duran.

If he caught the likes of Hagler, Holmes etc with that punch would they have stood up to it? or would they have gone the same way as Duran?

For me it was one of the most devastating punches I`ve ever seen land on someone`s chin. Middleweight, heavyweight or whatever, I don`t see how anyone could stand up to that sort of power/speed punch without hitting the deck.

I agree.
Might not have stood up but may have “got up”. Look at Carl Froch and George Groves.
The ones that come from outside your view will put out most fighters. There’s no such thing as a fighter that can’t be KO’d imo.
Even big lumps like Foreman and Lennox went.

How about the fighters that never were KO'd? Could they be KO'd? Lennox never had the best chin despite his size.

Of course! EVERY fighter could and can be kayoed. Even the ones that didn’t get kayoed. I was going to state that. For whatever reason...luck..skill...chin...opponent...they weren’t kayoed (or floored). But they could have been.

magwitch wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

magwitch wrote:
I agree.
Might not have stood up but may have “got up”. Look at Carl Froch and George Groves.
The ones that come from outside your view will put out most fighters. There’s no such thing as a fighter that can’t be KO’d imo.
Even big lumps like Foreman and Lennox went.

How about the fighters that never were KO'd? Could they be KO'd? Lennox never had the best chin despite his size.

Of course! EVERY fighter could and can be kayoed. Even the ones that didn’t get kayoed. I was going to state that. For whatever reason...luck..skill...chin...opponent...they weren’t kayoed (or floored). But they could have been.

Could they? Let's start with Hagler...he ducked no one, went toe to toe with the hardest punchers at his weight but wasn't ever knocked out or even hurt. Ditto Ray Robinson, Eder Jofre, Kid Gavilán, Charley Burley. They fought the best and were never KOd. Maybe if you were allowed to hit them from behind with a knuckle duster on, but not in the ring when they were fit.

Deserter wrote:

ElJefe wrote:Got to give a mention to James Toney. Never knocked out in 91 fights. It's probably been to his detriment in the long term but he had/has an incredible chin.

More about his defense than his chin. Even when he got tagged he rode shots rather than let them land flush.

Defence undoubtedly brilliant but he's still taken plenty of shots clean in a 25 year career. You don't do that and stay concious without a great chin. Especially as an overweight, out of shape heavyweight against naturally much bigger men. ATG chin.

ElJefe wrote:

Deserter wrote:

ElJefe wrote:Got to give a mention to James Toney. Never knocked out in 91 fights. It's probably been to his detriment in the long term but he had/has an incredible chin.

More about his defense than his chin. Even when he got tagged he rode shots rather than let them land flush.

Defence undoubtedly brilliant but he's still taken plenty of shots clean in a 25 year career. You don't do that and stay concious without a great chin. Especially as an overweight, out of shape heavyweight against naturally much bigger men. ATG chin.

ATG cranium! His head was heavyweight size his whole career. Unlike Jones, who looked weird at the weight, Toney must have been draining like hell to get to 160lbs.

Tomasino wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:I still don't know how Vitali stayed on his feet with that Lennox uppercut.

The best punch I've seen someone take.

Have to agree mate. Anytime someone mentions 'chin' in a thread that shot instantly springs to mind. It nearly decapitated him and he just shrugged it off! I'm sure I read he got KOd when he done kickboxing. Must've been a proper hard bastard to take him out because he was solid!

Pele Reid did him with a kick. Shin on coupon is a killer!

Yeah I remember reading a piece about that. Saying it was the stuff of legend in kickboxing and there was no footage of it. Rumours that it didn't happen but Reid confirmed it apparently? Not sure. Must've been some kick though

Stuarty30 wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:
Have to agree mate. Anytime someone mentions 'chin' in a thread that shot instantly springs to mind. It nearly decapitated him and he just shrugged it off! I'm sure I read he got KOd when he done kickboxing. Must've been a proper hard bastard to take him out because he was solid!

Pele Reid did him with a kick. Shin on coupon is a killer!

Yeah I remember reading a piece about that. Saying it was the stuff of legend in kickboxing and there was no footage of it. Rumours that it didn't happen but Reid confirmed it apparently? Not sure. Must've been some kick though

It's when he was a skinny novice really...it's on YouTube Stuarty

Tomasino wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

Pele Reid did him with a kick. Shin on coupon is a killer!

Yeah I remember reading a piece about that. Saying it was the stuff of legend in kickboxing and there was no footage of it. Rumours that it didn't happen but Reid confirmed it apparently? Not sure. Must've been some kick though

It's when he was a skinny novice really...it's on YouTube Stuarty

Didn't know that mate. I'll have a look cheers

ElJefe wrote:

Deserter wrote:

ElJefe wrote:Got to give a mention to James Toney. Never knocked out in 91 fights. It's probably been to his detriment in the long term but he had/has an incredible chin.

More about his defense than his chin. Even when he got tagged he rode shots rather than let them land flush.

Defence undoubtedly brilliant but he's still taken plenty of shots clean in a 25 year career. You don't do that and stay concious without a great chin. Especially as an overweight, out of shape heavyweight against naturally much bigger men. ATG chin.

I genuinely can't recall ever seeing Toney get hit cleanly with a punch capable of KO'ing a normal fighter - hit clean with scoring shots maybe, but not with the type of fully loaded shot where you're fully expecting to see the legs go. Happy to be corrected if you can point to an example.

If you can find the merqui Sosa fight, Toney himself admits Sosa had him seeing stars for a couple of rounds, with a shot he hit him in the 2nd rnd I think it was.

Another question I find interesting regarding this. In a rematch would Hearns likely have done it again? Or was it a punch of a lifetime?

Counter-puncher wrote:If you can find the merqui Sosa fight, Toney himself admits Sosa had him seeing stars for a couple of rounds, with a shot he hit him in the 2nd rnd I think it was.

Ironically I feel that substantiates my point. In Toney's own words:
"Sam Peter is the hardest puncher I’ve fought, but pound-for-pound it’s Sosa because he hurt me the most. I’ll never forget that fight, we fought on an ESPN show in Atlantic City on a Sunday. I went at him like I did everyone back then and that mother f_____ hit me so hard in the third round I was seeing triple for the next three rounds. He knew how to hit and he was so awkward that I couldn’t time him and he caught me high on the head."

Clearly implies to me that he only really got caught by a guy he couldn't time, in contrast to others like Peter who could clearly hit harder, but just couldn't catch Toney clean.

Indeed

Terminator666 wrote:Another question I find interesting regarding this. In a rematch would Hearns likely have done it again? Or was it a punch of a lifetime?

Duran didn't look right at all in that fight. Hearns seemed to look enormous against him and was timing him all fight long, Duran seemed very upright in the exchanges. Possibly just one of those style matchups that didn't suit Duran at all.

Reggie Johnson knocked down Toney with a left hand shot, legitimate straight punch. Toney straight up after.

jameswilson wrote:

Terminator666 wrote:Another question I find interesting regarding this. In a rematch would Hearns likely have done it again? Or was it a punch of a lifetime?

Duran didn't look right at all in that fight. Hearns seemed to look enormous against him and was timing him all fight long, Duran seemed very upright in the exchanges. Possibly just one of those style matchups that didn't suit Duran at all.

In Durans book it was said a few times that Hearns was the only fighter who got Duran scared. Duran was psyched out by the staredowns from Tommy. I'd pick Hearns to repeat the job at that weight, maybe not so soon but he pretty much manhandled Roberto in that fight, I don't see what Duran could do different.

Yeah duran feared that tommy had supernatural powers; he was so convinced that he went to ser witch doctor type before the fight.

Lewis chin wasn't as bad as people make out, he's been dropped twice, once by McCall which was a contentious stoppage anyway and once by Rahman, other than that he was pretty solid when caught flush.

Tomasino wrote:

magwitch wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

How about the fighters that never were KO'd? Could they be KO'd? Lennox never had the best chin despite his size.

Of course! EVERY fighter could and can be kayoed. Even the ones that didn’t get kayoed. I was going to state that. For whatever reason...luck..skill...chin...opponent...they weren’t kayoed (or floored). But they could have been.

Could they? Let's start with Hagler...he ducked no one, went toe to toe with the hardest punchers at his weight but wasn't ever knocked out or even hurt. Ditto Ray Robinson, Eder Jofre, Kid Gavilán, Charley Burley. They fought the best and were never KOd. Maybe if you were allowed to hit them from behind with a knuckle duster on, but not in the ring when they were fit.

Add in Mike McCallum too.

He shook off bombs from the hardest hitting 160 lber ever & flattened him in return.

The Bodysnatcher had a chin from the ages.

Longtime since I saw this fight but even as a kid once tommy got him backing up it was all over jab jab..show it then throw it ..good night. D urans my all time fav..and he had great chin but dont forget dejesus dropped him in both fights early...to be fair they were nt damaging but knockdowns all the same.
For me the best chins are coupled with underated defences ala mcallum..hagler toney. Domestically George feeney had a world class chin on an average skilled british champ.

forcefraser wrote:There have been some great chins in boxing. Hagler, Holmes, McCall etc.

I was watching a highlight reel of Tommy Hearns and in particular the punch that he threw which poleaxed Duran.

If he caught the likes of Hagler, Holmes etc with that punch would they have stood up to it? or would they have gone the same way as Duran?

For me it was one of the most devastating punches I`ve ever seen land on someone`s chin. Middleweight, heavyweight or whatever, I don`t see how anyone could stand up to that sort of power/speed punch without hitting the deck.

I think Hagler already proved himself against The Great Tommy Hearns and wether he could take Hearns best bomb's.

hagler was a natural middlewight, hearns wasnt at that time so he had an advantage

just as hearns had an advanatge over duran as hearns was a massive welterweight
and duran was an natural lightweight, so again the bigger man won

banjo wrote:Lewis chin wasn't as bad as people make out, he's been dropped twice, once by McCall which was a contentious stoppage anyway and once by Rahman, other than that he was pretty solid when caught flush.

I've never understood why some people think that was a poor stoppage. Lewis was staggering around as the ref checked him out following the count of 9, and if that wasn't reason enough to stop it Lewis then staggered into the ref; he may well have gone down without his support.