BoxRec

caldo2025 wrote:How the heck did Salido beat Lomachenko btw? I saw the fight but i still can't believe it happened. Did it really happen?

Loma was robbed blind... He was hit with 100 low blows and Laurence Cole did nothing... He's a judge who was suspended for flagrant bias in a fight, but he gets all kinds of questionable fights in Texas... It was a SD and Loma outlanded Salido by 40 punches on the states and had him knocked out in the last round... Cole was interfering like crazy.

I thought it was crazy to go for the Featherweight Title in his 2nd pro fight... You need to transfer your skills to the professional game... The gloves, lack of head gear, number of rounds, different rules and scoring, and more lenient usage of fouling such as: holding, pushing, head work, elbows, forearms, are ignored to a degree by many pro referees... The rules shouldn't be ignored so much but they are in the interest of "action"... I think you get more action by enforcing the rules.. But It takes time to adjust to all that and the 12 round distance... at least 10 to 20 fights... Loma did it in 2 fights because he looked unbelievable versus Russell.

I meant, Cole is a referee who was suspended by the commission for flagrant bias in a fight.

Kalan wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:How the heck did Salido beat Lomachenko btw? I saw the fight but i still can't believe it happened. Did it really happen?

Loma was robbed blind... He was hit with 100 low blows and Laurence Cole did nothing... He's a judge who was suspended for flagrant bias in a fight, but he gets all kinds of questionable fights in Texas... It was a SD and Loma outlanded Salido by 40 punches on the states and had him knocked out in the last round... Cole was interfering like crazy.

I thought it was crazy to go for the Featherweight Title in his 2nd pro fight... You need to transfer your skills to the professional game... The gloves, lack of head gear, number of rounds, different rules and scoring, and more lenient usage of fouling such as: holding, pushing, head work, elbows, forearms, are ignored to a degree by many pro referees... The rules shouldn't be ignored so much but they are in the interest of "action"... I think you get more action by enforcing the rules.. But It takes time to adjust to all that and the 12 round distance... at least 10 to 20 fights... Loma did it in 2 fights because he looked unbelievable versus Russell.

I do remember and i saw the fight as well but the Loma that i've watched the last few fights would absolutely throttle Salido and there's no way Salido makes it out of that fight, cheating ref or not. This kids just getting better and better.

But if there's a rematch i'd like to see, I'd rather it be against Gary Russell Jr. Both guys have improved since that fight.

Lomo is an excellent fighter, no doubt, but I don't think anyone can honestly put him as an atg like some are after 7 fights. Someone several months ago called him the Michael Jordan of boxing. Still laughing about that.

He has a great attitude that won't be met by most of his contemporaries. I wouldn't be surprised if he got sick of the politics and retired before winning another gold medal in 2020. As for ATG status, ummm, no. Really great viewing though, he certainly is P4P today.

I'm not saying he is an all time great.... especially not atm. However, IMO, he is the most skilled and talented fighter currently fighting, despite the number of pro fights he has....

But who knows.

From a technical viewpoint he has the best footwork I have ever seen.

The angles he creates are fantastic. Must be natural ability as I have no idea how you'd coach someone to do that.

im really cant wait for his next fights, fight with Nicholas Walters will be exciting, there is rematch with Salido, or titles hunt - Francisco Vargas, Jose Pedraza, Jezreel Corrales. I will accept all thi fights

PredatorHayds wrote:From a technical viewpoint he has the best footwork I have ever seen.

The angles he creates are fantastic. Must be natural ability as I have no idea how you'd coach someone to do that.

No. Angles, turning your opponents, hiding on them, switching stances at the right instances, etc are all teachable boxing techniques. Problem is, you not only need a great coach to properly learn them, you also need great natural ability to pull them off the way Loma does. His father is an old school trainer of the Soviet boxing school. They're heavy on a certain technical manner of boxing, i.e. the right way to box (staying in the pocket to maximise scoring opportunities while remaining defensively responsible). Loma is pretty much the ideal version of that fighter.

I mentioned Orlando Canizales earlier in this thread for a reason. He was similar to an orthodox version of Lomachenko.

King Carlos wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:From a technical viewpoint he has the best footwork I have ever seen.

The angles he creates are fantastic. Must be natural ability as I have no idea how you'd coach someone to do that.

No. Angles, turning your opponents, hiding on them, switching stances at the right instances, etc are all teachable boxing techniques. Problem is, you not only need a great coach to properly learn them, you also need great natural ability to pull them off the way Loma does. His father is an old school trainer of the Soviet boxing school. They're heavy on a certain technical manner of boxing, i.e. the right way to box (staying in the pocket to maximise scoring opportunities while remaining defensively responsible). Loma is pretty much the ideal version of that fighter.

I mentioned Orlando Canizales earlier in this thread for a reason. He was similar to an orthodox version of Lomachenko.

Yes, I thought at the time it was a good comparison in more ways than one.

kidbazooka1 wrote:

crusader wrote:Salido must be superman? How about Loma has gotten better since his second pro fight?

You were so eager to tell how us Russell improved and would beat Loma in a rematch, even though the only fight he had between the decisive Loma loss and the Gonzo win was a decision over Chris Martin, but are you hesitant to acknowledge that Loma may have gotten significantly better?

What is your issue with boxers from Europe and former Soviet Asian countries? You seem hyper-critical of them and are very reluctant to give them credit they deserve. I understand that you think some are overrated, and in certain cases I agree, but your constant bellyaching about and putdowns of them isn't any better.

Go back a bit i have stated Lomachenko is one of my favorite European fighters and was cheering for him when he beat Russell.

Has Russell improved yup he has.

Has Loma improved yes he has too but its barely been two yrs since Salido beat him and in response to TS saying Loma is the "best" fighter he's ever seen, its comical especially given his best win just came against a very ordinary c level fighter in Martinez.

Not a Russell fan but i do think he would beat Loma in a rematch, with that said again Loma is my favorite fighter out of all the top euro fighters today.

If TS was that impressed by lomas win last night well then he must have been head over heels when Rigo whooped Donaire who was a legit p4per at the time and knocking everyone out cold.

It's pretty laughable how eager some people are to act like Russell is a totally different fighter now. He had a grand total of one fight between the Loma loss and Gonzalez win, an ordinary decision over Chris Martin, yet somehow he made huge improvements in that time and would now beat a guy who after just two pro fights dealt with him handily in every way? I find that very hard to believe, and there is nothing that Russell tried against slow, stiff Gonzalez that he didn't already try against fast, fluid Loma.

By the way, Loma's best win was the convincing win over Russell, not his KTFO of Martinez.

In his first 7 fights Loma has already faced 3 world champions: martinez, salido & russell. That's pretty damn impressive.

Wow like I said before, Lomo is a great fighter, but lets let him get at least 15 or 20 fights before putting him up as a top pfp boxer. Take Mikey Garcia, for example as a record comparison, and there is no comparison. Lomo got the world title opportunities because of his amateur career, not because he earned them.

Lomo may very well eclipse everyone and become the best we have seen, but come on, man?! The opponents he beat are very good boxers, but not great, imo. Even if you say he beat Salido, JMM for example beat a much more prime Salido, not the 34 or 35 yr old version with 12 or 14 losses.

Some people are going too far, but I don't see why Loma has to meet a certain mark for total number of fights.

26-1 with 20 extra wins over weak opposition isn't much better than Loma's current 6-1, and I don't think his relative lack of record padding should be held against him. If he beats top opposition in his next few fights he should be ranked as such.

crusader wrote:Some people are going too far, but I don't see why Loma has to meet a certain mark for total number of fights.

26-1 with 20 extra wins over weak opposition isn't much better than Loma's current 6-1, and I don't think his relative lack of record padding should be held against him. If he beats top opposition in his next few fights he should be ranked as such.

he's fought better opposition than guys like Thurman.

Lomachenko has already out-achieved kell brook too, to give another example.

crusader wrote:Some people are going too far, but I don't see why Loma has to meet a certain mark for total number of fights.

26-1 with 20 extra wins over weak opposition isn't much better than Loma's current 6-1, and I don't think his relative lack of record padding should be held against him. If he beats top opposition in his next few fights he should be ranked as such.

Good point, does anyone really think he wouldn't have reeled off 20 or so wins against the typical overmatched opponents of varying styles and talents that most great fighters start with? I think we can assume he would have with relative ease. In my opinion, it's only what one does against the 10-15 toughest opponents of their career that end up defining that career.

jas80s wrote:

crusader wrote:Some people are going too far, but I don't see why Loma has to meet a certain mark for total number of fights.

26-1 with 20 extra wins over weak opposition isn't much better than Loma's current 6-1, and I don't think his relative lack of record padding should be held against him. If he beats top opposition in his next few fights he should be ranked as such.

Good point, does anyone really think he wouldn't have reeled off 20 or so wins against the typical overmatched opponents of varying styles and talents that most great fighters start with? I think we can assume he would have with relative ease. In my opinion, it's only what one does against the 10-15 toughest opponents of their career that end up defining that career.

Why does he need to fight any more? Should we just put him in the hall of fame now? If it was still the amateurs, from the rounds he boxed he would have the 20 or so wins. We all know boxing is a tough sport, and one punch can change everything. Most great fighters have losses, but the ones that make the hall of fame earn it. Lomo has not, no matter how good you think he is. He has an all time great amateur career. So far he is doing very well as a pro. A past his prime Salido beat him. Even if you think Lomo won, a past his prime Salido gave him a close fight.

Badhusker wrote:

jas80s wrote:

crusader wrote:Some people are going too far, but I don't see why Loma has to meet a certain mark for total number of fights.

26-1 with 20 extra wins over weak opposition isn't much better than Loma's current 6-1, and I don't think his relative lack of record padding should be held against him. If he beats top opposition in his next few fights he should be ranked as such.

Good point, does anyone really think he wouldn't have reeled off 20 or so wins against the typical overmatched opponents of varying styles and talents that most great fighters start with? I think we can assume he would have with relative ease. In my opinion, it's only what one does against the 10-15 toughest opponents of their career that end up defining that career.

Why does he need to fight any more? Should we just put him in the hall of fame now? If it was still the amateurs, from the rounds he boxed he would have the 20 or so wins. We all know boxing is a tough sport, and one punch can change everything. Most great fighters have losses, but the ones that make the hall of fame earn it. Lomo has not, no matter how good you think he is. He has an all time great amateur career. So far he is doing very well as a pro. A past his prime Salido beat him. Even if you think Lomo won, a past his prime Salido gave him a close fight.

Who is putting him in the Hall of Fame? Was it me? I don't recall writing that, or even thinking it.

I was just making the point that I assess a career in the ring based largely on how the fighter performed against the toughest opposition available to him over that career span. I don't put a whole lot of stock in a long list of overmatched opponents that a fighter vanquished. Personally, I will be judging him on he does against top fighters, that is what defines careers to me. So far, I'd wager I am where you are for the most part: He looks very good, he is obviously a very talented fighter who seems to have all the tools to be great, and he seems to be awfully well schooled. His record thus far is quite good having defeated a few very good fighters already, but he struggled with Salido, so there is no need to attach some kind of invincibility to him off of a showcase KO of a guy he really should have beaten.

BUT, knocking out 20 overmatched opponents isn't going to put him any closer to the Hall for me either, would it for you? Is Keith Thurman on your HOF short list? He has looked pretty damn good knocking out a long string of guys who had no real shot. His record doesn't do a thing for me, but we often view these things differently.

Loma might not be a hall of famer but the God he is.

He looks like one of the most talented fighters to come around in a long time. His style is fantastically entertaining. It's like he's slugging, moving, boxing, parrying all in one motion. The guy moves seemlessly. He does this..... Then he does this... And his opponent goes But Loma says and does this And when it's all said and done, he does this.....

People are misunderstanding. I did not say he was the GOAT, or anything like it.

Let me put it this way... in my time of following the sport (relatively young at 20 years) I have not seen a more complete package when it comes to a fighter, technically speaking. His defensive work while staying in the pocket, combined with his angles and punch arsenal, his footwork, nice power, speed. Everything combined makes him a treat to watch.

It is obviously too early to consider him in the running for the GOAT. But, it is not too early to recognize how special he is... For only having 7 fights, he has faced some top guys.

Impractical Poster wrote:People are misunderstanding. I did not say he was the GOAT, or anything like it.

Let me put it this way... in my time of following the sport (relatively young at 20 years) I have not seen a more complete package when it comes to a fighter, technically speaking. His defensive work while staying in the pocket, combined with his angles and punch arsenal, his footwork, nice power, speed. Everything combined makes him a treat to watch.

It is obviously too early to consider him in the running for the GOAT. But, it is not too early to recognize how special he is... For only having 7 fights, he has faced some top guys.

Good man