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Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 15 Jun 2016, 18:28
by Like a Boss
What happens when the man who punches too fast to block comes up against the man with the impenetrable defence?

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 15 Jun 2016, 19:32
by ElJefe
Interesting stuff from Andre Ward on hands first/feet first defence... (11:10 onwards)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26HwQHCCzYs

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 15 Jun 2016, 21:22
by Cutman Scabbers
Like a Boss wrote:
What happens when the man who punches too fast to block comes up against the man with the impenetrable defence?

This:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_Lnz64vXB8

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 16 Jun 2016, 21:51
by lazboy
Like a Boss wrote:
Cutman Scabbers wrote:
Like a Boss wrote:
Punch blocking was a whole lot more common in the past than it is now. The first line of defence was the gloves.

"Keep you gloves up. Keep your gloves up" - remember that?

Now it is more commonly based on body movement and evasion.

The first line of defense has always been the feet.

Weren't Joe Choynski and Jack Johnson masters of punch blocking?
Point taken. But you need to be lightning quick on your feet to avoid a superman punch. Better your gloves are forming a guard for you as well.
I agree. First move with you feet, be aware of the different distances, long, medium and short, they apply to defense not just offense. For example, long rang, the punches you are most at threat are the jab and straight, an awkward fighter could throw leaping lefts + rights but IMO these would be easier to see than fast straights unless your fighting Roy Jones Junior. If you can keep your gloves up and loose, allowing your feet to move, then you could potentially catch straights or move out of distance, (if trained to do so). Obviously a very different case on the inside. I used to think the inside was a 50/50 game but seeing people like Mayweather, Benitez, Duran, Leonard, James Toney, Ward, obviously there is an effective inside defense. IMO peek a boo can be effective as shown by tyson, he could avoid the outside and even medium range punches and then be in a position to fire up close.

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 17 Jun 2016, 01:39
by Cutman Scabbers
lazboy wrote:
Like a Boss wrote:
Cutman Scabbers wrote:

The first line of defense has always been the feet.

Weren't Joe Choynski and Jack Johnson masters of punch blocking?
Point taken. But you need to be lightning quick on your feet to avoid a superman punch. Better your gloves are forming a guard for you as well.
I agree. First move with you feet, be aware of the different distances, long, medium and short, they apply to defense not just offense. For example, long rang, the punches you are most at threat are the jab and straight, an awkward fighter could throw leaping lefts + rights but IMO these would be easier to see than fast straights unless your fighting Roy Jones Junior. If you can keep your gloves up and loose, allowing your feet to move, then you could potentially catch straights or move out of distance, (if trained to do so). Obviously a very different case on the inside. I used to think the inside was a 50/50 game but seeing people like Mayweather, Benitez, Duran, Leonard, James Toney, Ward, obviously there is an effective inside defense. IMO peek a boo can be effective as shown by tyson, he could avoid the outside and even medium range punches and then be in a position to fire up close.

That young Tyson was so sharp with it -- he was always slipping, countering, shifting his feet and moving again into position to counter.

Wish he could have kept that style going all along.

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 17 Jun 2016, 03:09
by lazboy
Yea I wish. I think it was very grueling though. He would have had to be in peak physical condition, so that would mean no drugs, alcohol and women. Obviously that's why he started short cutting it.

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 17 Jun 2016, 05:02
by Kalan
ElJefe wrote:Interesting stuff from Andre Ward on hands first/feet first defence... (11:10 onwards)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26HwQHCCzYs
This is good stuff from Ward. Many fighters like to work outside and grab and hold like crazy on the inside... Wladimir Klitschko and Ali were chronic grabbers, holders, and wrestlers who had good jabs and outside games but no inside games or body punching games... One reason Broner lost to Porter, lopsidedly, is despite the fact that he made him come way down in weight to drain him is, he couldn't work inside.. Porter knew this and stayed on him and all Broner could do was grab and wrestle.. I like the way Ward puts it.. "I like to be an all-terrain fighter. Go outside for a minute and a half -- and then get in close and finish the round strong on the inside."

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 17 Jun 2016, 07:04
by caldo2025
lazboy wrote:
Like a Boss wrote:
Cutman Scabbers wrote:

The first line of defense has always been the feet.

Weren't Joe Choynski and Jack Johnson masters of punch blocking?
Point taken. But you need to be lightning quick on your feet to avoid a superman punch. Better your gloves are forming a guard for you as well.
I agree. First move with you feet, be aware of the different distances, long, medium and short, they apply to defense not just offense. For example, long rang, the punches you are most at threat are the jab and straight, an awkward fighter could throw leaping lefts + rights but IMO these would be easier to see than fast straights unless your fighting Roy Jones Junior. If you can keep your gloves up and loose, allowing your feet to move, then you could potentially catch straights or move out of distance, (if trained to do so). Obviously a very different case on the inside. I used to think the inside was a 50/50 game but seeing people like Mayweather, Benitez, Duran, Leonard, James Toney, Ward, obviously there is an effective inside defense. IMO peek a boo can be effective as shown by tyson, he could avoid the outside and even medium range punches and then be in a position to fire up close.
Agreed that Peek a Boo defense has been an effective defense for some fighters, you Tyson reference is a good one. The reason why it was so effective was that he was constantly weaving while doing it which put him in a great position to throw hooks from both side and the uppercut. But a fighter like Provodnikov's use of the defense literally cost him the fight last weekend. With no movement, the PAB defense is awful because it's basically like a big green blinking light for the opposing boxer to start throwing because there's no threat to a punch coming back. I honestly couldn't believe Diaz wasn't saying anything about that to Ruslan in the corner. Molina threw over 1000 punches and he's not known as a volume puncher. Ruslan's best two rounds happened when he dropped his hands and did a Sergio. Molina went into a shell for two rounds and stopped throwing. How can a trainer not see what was going on in there? I've never been in a ring in my life but it was so obvious to me. The poor kid's never had the attention he deserved from his trainers.

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 17 Jun 2016, 14:10
by Joe Boxer
Worst defense style has to be the one Smokin' Bert Cooper used. Right hand in the regular boxing defensive position, and left arm crossing his face with his elbow jutting out.
Wtf.
Right hooks to the body totally open, and right uppercuts, like the one Holyfield f'd him up with.

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 17 Jun 2016, 19:08
by lazboy
Ok this is going to be really controversial....I am not saying it is the worst defence just want some opinions. What did you think of Ali's rope a dope? Not so much in the Foreman fight, because he neutralised Foreman, made him punch himself out and it was like a psyche job, but in later fights like against Chuck Wepner. If Ali was moving I'm sure he could of avoided a significant amount of punishment but the question is, would that movement have tired him out at that age/fitness level against such a pressure fighter, given that stamina is key to this big heavyweight bouts, conserving energy is probably the most important thing.

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 18 Jun 2016, 11:34
by Cygnus475
lazboy wrote:Ok this is going to be really controversial....I am not saying it is the worst defence just want some opinions. What did you think of Ali's rope a dope? Not so much in the Foreman fight, because he neutralised Foreman, made him punch himself out and it was like a psyche job, but in later fights like against Chuck Wepner. If Ali was moving I'm sure he could of avoided a significant amount of punishment but the question is, would that movement have tired him out at that age/fitness level against such a pressure fighter, given that stamina is key to this big heavyweight bouts, conserving energy is probably the most important thing.
The rope a dope only works if you know how to shift weight and slip punches. Ali would lean away and deflect punches by turning his body at the last second then tie up the opponent if you got too close, counter punch at mid range or throw right hand leads to disrupt the opponent's attack pattern. He held his hands high and tilted his head back to make it even harder to hit him in the head--which means part of it is being willing and able to take bod shots (which few people can do).

If you already suck at body positioning, shifting weight, and slipping the rope a dope is useless. You also have to have decent reflexes and counter punching. Ali only won because he landed tons of punches on Foreman in between his burst of attack. If he simply turtles up and blocked he would have lost a lopsided decision. You have to be able to attack while backing up and see stuff coming. I suppose a skate/surfboarder would already have the tools for shifting weight and learning the rope a dope.

Re: Worst Defense: Peek-A-Boo

Posted: 22 Jun 2016, 01:17
by jewboypgh
It's always sucked. Get hit in the noggin way too much. Aight no sense

Look how Sammy exposes this kevin Rooney peek r boo pupil

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaRh6OloQVs&sns=em