BoxRec

Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Stevieb8006 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Frazier, Tyson comes out fast and catches Joe cold and batters him in short order.
Norton - very tough night, Norton like Holyfield was tough and crafty. Think Norton wins on points.
Ali - Tyson has his moments early, get's stopped late in the fight.
Shavers - Mike endures some rough spots and spatters Shavers in the middle rounds.
Chuvalo - Tyson comes close to stopping him early, but wins on points.
Bugner - Tyson wins in a similar fashion to the smith fight.

Oh, Foreman scares the shite out of Tyson long before they enter the ring, and completely destroys him. Tyson would have been intimidated from the get go.

totally.

I think Norton and Frazier out tough him as well. As unbelievably talented as Mike was, he head would dip. he became a "game quitter" when stood up to.

The reason I picked Tyson over Frazier, is that Frazier was usually a slow burner, whereas Mike came out of the blocks like a Rocket. I think Mike's speed would have been too much, and Tyson would have overwhelmed Frazier before he could get going. Frazier wouldn't have been able to get in his groove in time, and Mike's punches would have kept coming.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Stevieb8006 wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Oh, Foreman scares the shite out of Tyson long before they enter the ring, and completely destroys him. Tyson would have been intimidated from the get go.

totally.

I think Norton and Frazier out tough him as well. As unbelievably talented as Mike was, he head would dip. he became a "game quitter" when stood up to.

The reason I picked Tyson over Frazier, is that Frazier was usually a slow burner, whereas Mike came out of the blocks like a Rocket. I think Mike's speed would have been too much, and Tyson would have overwhelmed Frazier before he could get going. Frazier wouldn't have been able to get in his groove in time, and Mike's punches would have kept coming.

Norton is getting a bit overrated here a bit, Norton, great physique but pretty basic and
not very mobile, Tyson would have steam rolled Norton early and in style.

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Controversial wrote:

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Tyson didn't really beat anyone who was top notch though did he ?

bigjack wrote:

Controversial wrote:

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Tyson didn't really beat anyone who was top notch though did he ?

Holmes? in some people's top 3 ever? and was still good enough to give Holyfield nightmares years after Tyson destroyed him.

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Why do people say that ? Do you think Ruddock just rolled over or berbick ....

bigjack wrote:

Controversial wrote:

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Tyson didn't really beat anyone who was top notch though did he ?

Depends how you view it. In reality only Douglas and Holyfield beat him, poorer versions of him too. The other losses he was shot to pieces and would have been different results in his prime (Danny Williams, Lewis and McBride).

Berbick, Thomas, Smith, Biggs, Tucker, Tubbs, Bruno, Spinks and Williams were all top contenders or world champs and he beat them all pretty easily. Holmes was still a good fighter and an ATG, rated by some as the greatest HW ever. Lets not forget after losing to Tyson Holmes fought another 24 times, going 21-3 only losing to Holyfield (aged 42), McCall (aged 45) and a disputed loss to the undefeated Brian Nielsen (aged 47). He was never stopped again, beat the undefeated Ray Mercer, who was coming off stoppage wins over Damiani and Morrison, by a wide UD decision four years after the Tyson loss and had two more cracks at the world title so he was still a force to be reckoned with. Tyson was the only fighter to stop him, quickly too.

Controversial wrote:

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Frank Bruno fought 2 different fights against him as well. Or maybe the same fight, but two different Franks....what I mean is, the popular narrative is of Frank getting blitzed. I was too young to know first time around, but having watched it since, Frank stood up to him from minute 1. Even landed that big shot of his own. So you can add Frank to the list that “stood up” (just as he fought Lennox too).
Frank vs. Mike II was easier for Mike. He’d been in prison, yet Bruno seemed to have lost more, to my memory at least.

magwitch wrote:

Controversial wrote:

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Frank Bruno fought 2 different fights against him as well. Or maybe the same fight, but two different Franks....what I mean is, the popular narrative is of Frank getting blitzed. I was too young to know first time around, but having watched it since, Frank stood up to him from minute 1. Even landed that big shot of his own. So you can add Frank to the list that “stood up” (just as he fought Lennox too).
Frank vs. Mike II was easier for Mike. He’d been in prison, yet Bruno seemed to have lost more, to my memory at least.

I was really disappointed with Bruno in the rematch. He was 20lbs heavier than the first time and Tyson had been beaten, so his air of invincibility was gone. Even so Bruno looked scared shitless and put no fight up at all, he done better the first time around.



.

magwitch wrote:

Controversial wrote:

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Frank Bruno fought 2 different fights against him as well. Or maybe the same fight, but two different Franks....what I mean is, the popular narrative is of Frank getting blitzed. I was too young to know first time around, but having watched it since, Frank stood up to him from minute 1. Even landed that big shot of his own. So you can add Frank to the list that “stood up” (just as he fought Lennox too).
Frank vs. Mike II was easier for Mike. He’d been in prison, yet Bruno seemed to have lost more, to my memory at least.

Yeah his arse.

bigjack wrote:

Controversial wrote:

bigjack wrote:Tyson lost to everyone who stood up to him so i could see a case for him losing to everyone on the list.

Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Tyson didn't really beat anyone who was top notch though did he ?

Did holmes or rocky Marciano beat better ? Tyson had a short prime just like wilfredo benitez did but at his best he was one of the best heavies ever

stevedoc wrote:

bigjack wrote:

Controversial wrote:
Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Tyson didn't really beat anyone who was top notch though did he ?

Did holmes or rocky Marciano beat better ? Tyson had a short prime just like wilfredo benitez did but at his best he was one of the best heavies ever

I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head there mate. People talk about Ali’s speed but Tyson must have been as fast. Ali had different arms to Tyson. Ali fast on the jabs and crosses but Tyson’s shorter punches and particularly combos were lightning.

magwitch wrote:

stevedoc wrote:

bigjack wrote:

Tyson didn't really beat anyone who was top notch though did he ?

Did holmes or rocky Marciano beat better ? Tyson had a short prime just like wilfredo benitez did but at his best he was one of the best heavies ever

I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head there mate. People talk about Ali’s speed but Tyson must have been as fast. Ali had different arms to Tyson. Ali fast on the jabs and crosses but Tyson’s shorter punches and particularly combos were lightning.

totally agree with this, people say Tyson's power was what made him special, but it was the power coupled with speed and flexibility. Tysons use of the hook to the body with either left or right, followed by an uppercut with the same hand was very unusual, and lightning quick. He knocked a lot of people out with that combination, and they never knew what hit them because the punches came in such rapid succession.

Rexob wrote:

magwitch wrote:

Controversial wrote:
Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Frank Bruno fought 2 different fights against him as well. Or maybe the same fight, but two different Franks....what I mean is, the popular narrative is of Frank getting blitzed. I was too young to know first time around, but having watched it since, Frank stood up to him from minute 1. Even landed that big shot of his own. So you can add Frank to the list that “stood up” (just as he fought Lennox too).
Frank vs. Mike II was easier for Mike. He’d been in prison, yet Bruno seemed to have lost more, to my memory at least.

Yeah his arse.

I've never seen a man cross himself so many times. You'd have thought he was entering the ring to face a vampire.

magwitch wrote:Just for fun....prime for primes against some of these (generally bigger) guys?

Frazier
Norton
Ali
Shavers
Foreman
Chuvalo
Bugner

I think Ali and Foreman would have beaten Tyson quite easily. Mike would have beaten the others.
Norton and Shavers would have been good fights but I think Mike would have won.
Now, Tyson v Frazier would have been a great 50/50 contest but I'll give Tyson the edge.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Rexob wrote:

magwitch wrote:
Frank Bruno fought 2 different fights against him as well. Or maybe the same fight, but two different Franks....what I mean is, the popular narrative is of Frank getting blitzed. I was too young to know first time around, but having watched it since, Frank stood up to him from minute 1. Even landed that big shot of his own. So you can add Frank to the list that “stood up” (just as he fought Lennox too).
Frank vs. Mike II was easier for Mike. He’d been in prison, yet Bruno seemed to have lost more, to my memory at least.

Yeah his arse.

I've never seen a man cross himself so many times. You'd have thought he was entering the ring to face a vampire.

Bruno should have entered the ring wearing a nappy, because he looked like he was going to wet himself!

Everyone seems to pick foreman to win but I'm not sure myself foreman was slow and unlike Frazier Tyson had great side to side head movement he wouldn't be as easy to hit with uppercuts as Frazier was plus Tyson was bigger than Frazier The same weight as foreman .

stevedoc wrote:Everyone seems to pick foreman to win but I'm not sure myself foreman was slow and unlike Frazier Tyson had great side to side head movement he wouldn't be as easy to hit with uppercuts as Frazier was plus Tyson was bigger than Frazier The same weight as foreman .

As I said, I believe the biggest factor here, is that Tyson would have been very intimidated by Foreman, people forget just what a bad-ass George was, before Ali, he seemed totally invincible.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stevedoc wrote:Everyone seems to pick foreman to win but I'm not sure myself foreman was slow and unlike Frazier Tyson had great side to side head movement he wouldn't be as easy to hit with uppercuts as Frazier was plus Tyson was bigger than Frazier The same weight as foreman .

As I said, I believe the biggest factor here, is that Tyson would have been very intimidated by Foreman, people forget just what a bad-ass George was, before Ali, he seemed totally invincible.

i don't see a young pre douglas Tyson being imtimadated myself ,i know george was a mean dude but so was Tyson

stevedoc wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stevedoc wrote:Everyone seems to pick foreman to win but I'm not sure myself foreman was slow and unlike Frazier Tyson had great side to side head movement he wouldn't be as easy to hit with uppercuts as Frazier was plus Tyson was bigger than Frazier The same weight as foreman .

As I said, I believe the biggest factor here, is that Tyson would have been very intimidated by Foreman, people forget just what a bad-ass George was, before Ali, he seemed totally invincible.

i don't see a young pre douglas Tyson being imtimadated myself ,i know george was a mean dude but so was Tyson

You may be right of course; I think that Foreman fought far less afraid than Mike - Tyson was well known for getting frustrated during sparring and in fights if he couldn't put someone away, because deep down he was terrified of losing.

Foreman seemed as solid as a brick wall mentally, before the loss to Ali. I often think that things may have gone different with Ali in a rematch. People forget how much punishment ali had to take before George gassed.

Controversial wrote:

magwitch wrote:

Controversial wrote:
Ruddock stood up to him and lost, twice. Most who tried to stand up to him were knocked out so not strictly true.

Frank Bruno fought 2 different fights against him as well. Or maybe the same fight, but two different Franks....what I mean is, the popular narrative is of Frank getting blitzed. I was too young to know first time around, but having watched it since, Frank stood up to him from minute 1. Even landed that big shot of his own. So you can add Frank to the list that “stood up” (just as he fought Lennox too).
Frank vs. Mike II was easier for Mike. He’d been in prison, yet Bruno seemed to have lost more, to my memory at least.

I was really disappointed with Bruno in the rematch. He was 20lbs heavier than the first time and Tyson had been beaten, so his air of invincibility was gone. Even so Bruno looked scared shitless and put no fight up at all, he done better the first time around.



.

I watched that again recently, and I actually thought Bruno did all he was capable of.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stevedoc wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
As I said, I believe the biggest factor here, is that Tyson would have been very intimidated by Foreman, people forget just what a bad-ass George was, before Ali, he seemed totally invincible.

i don't see a young pre douglas Tyson being imtimadated myself ,i know george was a mean dude but so was Tyson

You may be right of course; I think that Foreman fought far less afraid than Mike - Tyson was well known for getting frustrated during sparring and in fights if he couldn't put someone away, because deep down he was terrified of losing.

Foreman seemed as solid as a brick wall mentally, before the loss to Ali. I often think that things may have gone different with Ali in a rematch. People forget how much punishment ali had to take before George gassed.

I think people forget how Ali landed at will whenever he let his hands go. The great man was in complete control at all times imo.

Dixonian wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

stevedoc wrote:
i don't see a young pre douglas Tyson being imtimadated myself ,i know george was a mean dude but so was Tyson

You may be right of course; I think that Foreman fought far less afraid than Mike - Tyson was well known for getting frustrated during sparring and in fights if he couldn't put someone away, because deep down he was terrified of losing.

Foreman seemed as solid as a brick wall mentally, before the loss to Ali. I often think that things may have gone different with Ali in a rematch. People forget how much punishment ali had to take before George gassed.

I think people forget how Ali landed at will whenever he let his hands go. The great man was in complete control at all times imo.

I know what you mean. However, Ali himself admitted a couple of years ago, that the reason he adopted the tactics he did, was he realised that Foreman was actually pretty good at cutting the ring off, and he wouldn't be able to dance around him.

I don't think many fighters could have taken the punishment to the body Ali did that night, and had Foreman fought a little less foolishly and not punched himself out, it could have been a different fight - however, Ali may well have just found another way to win.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Dixonian wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
You may be right of course; I think that Foreman fought far less afraid than Mike - Tyson was well known for getting frustrated during sparring and in fights if he couldn't put someone away, because deep down he was terrified of losing.

Foreman seemed as solid as a brick wall mentally, before the loss to Ali. I often think that things may have gone different with Ali in a rematch. People forget how much punishment ali had to take before George gassed.

I think people forget how Ali landed at will whenever he let his hands go. The great man was in complete control at all times imo.

I know what you mean. However, Ali himself admitted a couple of years ago, that the reason he adopted the tactics he did, was he realised that Foreman was actually pretty good at cutting the ring off, and he wouldn't be able to dance around him.

I don't think many fighters could have taken the punishment to the body Ali did that night, and had Foreman fought a little less foolishly and not punched himself out, it could have been a different fight - however, Ali may well have just found another way to win.

Yeah I don't know how he took those body punches to be fair. Could have felled an oak.