BoxRec

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q35AZXML9Cc

FS feed your dinner to you next

Great video.

Crease wrote:

Great video.

I'm sure it's Lee Wylies video. He has some great stuff on you tube

Counter-puncher wrote:For those of you who love watching Louis and like this sort of thing, theres a youtube video by lee Wylie analysing his style, Wylie is pretty good at this sort of thing and Louis is a brilliant subject.

He's got some of the best videos on the web

Crease wrote:And his achievement of defending his title 7 times in 7 months stands as probably the most astounding campaign ever seen in boxing.

Just delving in to the Bum of the Month campaign, let's have a quick look at his opponents:

Dec 1940: Al McCoy -
Jan 1941: Gus Dorazio -
Feb 1941: Red Burman - ranked 3rd in The Ring's 1940 rankings,
Mar 1941: Abe Simon - ranked 4th in The Ring's 1940 rankings, ranked 5th the following year.
Apr 1941: Tony Musto -
May 1941: Buddy Baer - ranked 6th in The Ring's 1940 rankings, ranked 7th the following year.
Jun 1941: Billy Conn - ranked 1st in The Ring's 1941 rankings.

The 3 opponents who weren't ranked in either year (40 or 41), McCoy, Dorazio & Musto were omitted out of the top 10 for different reasons.

Dorazio was ranked 9th in the annual rankings of 1938, but he slipped out and was unable to return, whilst still being a credible contender. He did eventually come back in to it ranked 5th in 1943, but his rise was short-lived and he plummeted out of it.

Musto briefly entered the rankings in 9th place in 1942 but quickly slipped back out again.

The simple plain and basic truth is: These were not bad fighters, they were good opponents - it's just that Joe Louis was miles ahead of them.

i think schmeling II was an amazing win.
don't know enough about the era to judge
other fights, but this one was as impressive
as they come.

Crease wrote:

Crease wrote:And his achievement of defending his title 7 times in 7 months stands as probably the most astounding campaign ever seen in boxing.

Just delving in to the Bum of the Month campaign, let's have a quick look at his opponents:

Dec 1940: Al McCoy -
Jan 1941: Gus Dorazio -
Feb 1941: Red Burman - ranked 3rd in The Ring's 1940 rankings,
Mar 1941: Abe Simon - ranked 4th in The Ring's 1940 rankings, ranked 5th the following year.
Apr 1941: Tony Musto -
May 1941: Buddy Baer - ranked 6th in The Ring's 1940 rankings, ranked 7th the following year.
Jun 1941: Billy Conn - ranked 1st in The Ring's 1941 rankings.

The 3 opponents who weren't ranked in either year (40 or 41), McCoy, Dorazio & Musto were omitted out of the top 10 for different reasons.

Dorazio was ranked 9th in the annual rankings of 1938, but he slipped out and was unable to return, whilst still being a credible contender. He did eventually come back in to it ranked 5th in 1943, but his rise was short-lived and he plummeted out of it.

Musto briefly entered the rankings in 9th place in 1942 but quickly slipped back out again.

The simple plain and basic truth is: These were not bad fighters, they were good opponents - it's just that Joe Louis was miles ahead of them.

They were TERRIBLE opponents... No Wladimir Klitschko's or Anthony Joshua's there... Just lame assed "Bum of the Month" swingers who didn't stand a chance except for Billy Conn -- who could box but was unbelievably undersized compared to Louis... Conn started boxing pro as a lightweight.

Kalan wrote:They were TERRIBLE opponents... No Wladimir Klitschko's or Anthony Joshua's there... Just lame assed "Bum of the Month" swingers who didn't stand a chance except for Billy Conn -- who could box but was unbelievably undersized compared to Louis... Conn started boxing pro as a lightweight.

Please may I ask a question Kalan.......

Why are so many of your posts negative?

Kalan wrote:They were TERRIBLE opponents... Just lame assed "Bum of the Month" swingers who didn't stand a chance except for Billy Conn

Really?

And who would you have liked to have seen share the ring with Joe Louis circa late 1940 / first half of 1941.

I am asking you directly to name these so-called dangerous opponents that Joe had been avoiding.

Actually, let's play a quick game -
Imagine that you were the richest, most respected & most high profile sprots promoter in the world in the autumn of 1940.

So, the World Heavyweight Champion, Joe Louis walks into your office and declares that he wants 7 title defenses for the months of December through to June '41.

Which 7 fights would you have picked for him, to make plenty of money & keep the boxing public happy.

Crease wrote:

Kalan wrote:They were TERRIBLE opponents... Just lame assed "Bum of the Month" swingers who didn't stand a chance except for Billy Conn

Really?

And who would you have liked to have seen share the ring with Joe Louis circa late 1940 / first half of 1941.

I am asking you directly to name these so-called dangerous opponents that Joe had been avoiding.

Actually, let's play a quick game -
Imagine that you were the richest, most respected & most high profile sprots promoter in the world in the autumn of 1940.

So, the World Heavyweight Champion, Joe Louis walks into your office and declares that he wants 7 title defenses for the months of December through to June '41.

Which 7 fights would you have picked for him, to make plenty of money & keep the boxing public happy.

??????????

Still waiting an answer on this.

AJ yet to beat a boxer outside the top 20 in a very weak era (now) whereas Louis beat people ranked in the top ten every time pretty much. Lets get real here too - take the war away and Louis makes how many defences? At least another 10, that's 36 defences but ofc 10 is only just over 3 a years - we're talking conservatively 5 a year - that's 15 - Louis would have made 40 defences - that's the level of fighter he was.

Kalan wrote:

Crease wrote:

Crease wrote:And his achievement of defending his title 7 times in 7 months stands as probably the most astounding campaign ever seen in boxing.

Just delving in to the Bum of the Month campaign, let's have a quick look at his opponents:

Dec 1940: Al McCoy -
Jan 1941: Gus Dorazio -
Feb 1941: Red Burman - ranked 3rd in The Ring's 1940 rankings,
Mar 1941: Abe Simon - ranked 4th in The Ring's 1940 rankings, ranked 5th the following year.
Apr 1941: Tony Musto -
May 1941: Buddy Baer - ranked 6th in The Ring's 1940 rankings, ranked 7th the following year.
Jun 1941: Billy Conn - ranked 1st in The Ring's 1941 rankings.

The 3 opponents who weren't ranked in either year (40 or 41), McCoy, Dorazio & Musto were omitted out of the top 10 for different reasons.

Dorazio was ranked 9th in the annual rankings of 1938, but he slipped out and was unable to return, whilst still being a credible contender. He did eventually come back in to it ranked 5th in 1943, but his rise was short-lived and he plummeted out of it.

Musto briefly entered the rankings in 9th place in 1942 but quickly slipped back out again.

The simple plain and basic truth is: These were not bad fighters, they were good opponents - it's just that Joe Louis was miles ahead of them.

They were TERRIBLE opponents... No Wladimir Klitschko's or Anthony Joshua's there... Just lame assed "Bum of the Month" swingers who didn't stand a chance except for Billy Conn -- who could box but was unbelievably undersized compared to Louis... Conn started boxing pro as a lightweight.

Crease wrote:

Kalan wrote:They were TERRIBLE opponents... Just lame assed "Bum of the Month" swingers who didn't stand a chance except for Billy Conn

Really?

And who would you have liked to have seen share the ring with Joe Louis circa late 1940 / first half of 1941.

I am asking you directly to name these so-called dangerous opponents that Joe had been avoiding.

Actually, let's play a quick game -
Imagine that you were the richest, most respected & most high profile sprots promoter in the world in the autumn of 1940.

So, the World Heavyweight Champion, Joe Louis walks into your office and declares that he wants 7 title defenses for the months of December through to June '41.

Which 7 fights would you have picked for him, to make plenty of money & keep the boxing public happy.

This is going to be difficult since this guy is about 13 years old.

Crease wrote:

Crease wrote:

Kalan wrote:They were TERRIBLE opponents... Just lame assed "Bum of the Month" swingers who didn't stand a chance except for Billy Conn

Really?

And who would you have liked to have seen share the ring with Joe Louis circa late 1940 / first half of 1941.

I am asking you directly to name these so-called dangerous opponents that Joe had been avoiding.

Actually, let's play a quick game -
Imagine that you were the richest, most respected & most high profile sprots promoter in the world in the autumn of 1940.

So, the World Heavyweight Champion, Joe Louis walks into your office and declares that he wants 7 title defenses for the months of December through to June '41.

Which 7 fights would you have picked for him, to make plenty of money & keep the boxing public happy.

??????????

Still waiting an answer on this.

There wasn't anybody to fight -- just terrible opponents... The matchmaking would have been easier if a promoter could choose from the following:

1. Tyson Fury... 2. Anthony Joshua... 3. Luis Ortiz... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Charles Martin... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Erkan Teper... 13. Hughie Fury... 14. Kubrat Pulev... 15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Artur Szpilka... 28. Otto Wallin... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Dominic Breazeale... 31. Amir Mansour etc.

Ha Ha Ha!

Good one. If Joe Louis was around now and in his prime, he'd wipe the floor with the freaks passing themselves off as boxers today. One a month or better, starting with Fury and ending with Mansour. None of these clowns would last five rounds.

Cap wrote:Ha Ha Ha!

Good one. If Joe Louis was around now and in his prime, he'd wipe the floor with the freaks passing themselves off as boxers today. One a month or better, starting with Fury and ending with Mansour. None of these clowns would last five rounds.

Agree. Louis was a super fighter. A perfect boxing machine.

Right... Like he proved against Conn... getting outboxed for 12 rounds by a Light Heavyweight... and getting decked by guys like Tony Galento.

You think any Light Heavyweights would like to take on Luis Ortiz??? ... He was never knocked out by a 10/1 underdog like Schmeling.

Any Heavyweight Contenders of the early 40's who you would match against David Haye??? ... Just curious.

Kalan wrote:There wasn't anybody to fight -- just terrible opponents..

So now your grievance isn't with the quality of Joe Louis as a fighter, now it is with his era of boxing.

I know that you are young & (probably) new to discussions of boxing history, but Let me assure that the Heavyweight boxing scene of the mid 30s through to the early 50s was a lively time in the division. And I would say one of the best eras of all time - but that's up for debate.

As for rating Joe. I would advise you to look at his body of work as a fighter, the opponents he faced - the undeniable truth is that he simply fought THE BEST around.

Looking at the likes of Schmeling, Braddock, Conn, Walcott, Charles, Marciano - that's a helluva tough ask for any fighter.

As a matter of fact, I would suggest that Joe has had one of the toughest resumes of any Heavyweight ever.

Kalan wrote:1. Tyson Fury... 2. Anthony Joshua... 3. Luis Ortiz... 4. Deontay Wilder... 5. Wladimir Klitschko... 6. Alexander Povetkin... 7. David Haye... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Joseph Parker... 10. Charles Martin... 11. Bryant Jennings... 12. Erkan Teper... 13. Hughie Fury... 14. Kubrat Pulev... 15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Ruslan Chagaev... 17. Bermane Stiverne... 18. Lucas Browne... 19. Malik Scott... 20. Carlos Takam... 21. Mike Perez... 22. Alexander Ustinov... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Christian Hammer... 25. Robert Helenius... 26. Steve Cunningham... 27. Artur Szpilka... 28. Otto Wallin... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Dominic Breazeale... 31. Amir Mansour etc.

You need to realise that the recent Heavyweight scene has consistently been considered one of the WORST ever by boxing writers' and pundits alike.

Looking at that list, I would only consider 8 of them to be fairly good fighters (and I am being kind)

I'd go for: Fury, Klitchsko, Joshua, Wilder, Povetkin, Pulev, Ortiz & Hayes.

But none of them being in Joe's class.

Kalan wrote:Right... Like he proved against Conn... getting outboxed for 12 rounds by a Light Heavyweight... and getting decked by guys like Tony Galento.

Yes he still won both fights. You are clutchino at straws if you are criticising Joe for fights that he actually WON.

I could point out Fury (today's number 1) being floored by a non-entity called Neven Pajkic.

I could point out Wladimir (number 2) being routed by Lamon Brewster & Corrie Sanders - neither of which could claim to be the number 1 Heavyweight at any time.

And what about AJ getting rocked by Dilian Whyte?

I could throw out another few examples - but you get the point. Any fighter in the world could be criticised for 1 thing or another. But that doesn't mean that they are worthless just because you choose to devalue them in your posts.

Kalan wrote:You think any Light Heavyweights would like to take on Luis Ortiz??? ...

Certainly, I'd imagine that Ezzard Charles, Gene Tunney, Mike Spinks and DEFINITELY Archie Moore wouldn't be overly hesitant about getting in the ring with our current Cuban contender.

Kalan wrote:Any Heavyweight Contenders of the early 40's who you would match against David Haye??? ... Just curious.

I admit that I'd be curious to see what would happen if The Hayemaker was to meet Jersey Joe Walcott.

In my mind, I can make good arguments for both of them winning the fight. And it would be an entertaining matchup.

Crease wrote:

Kalan wrote:Any Heavyweight Contenders of the early 40's who you would match against David Haye??? ... Just curious.

I admit that I'd be curious to see what would happen if The Hayemaker was to meet Jersey Joe Walcott.

In my mind, I can make good arguments for both of them winning the fight. And it would be an entertaining matchup.

Joe in his late prime would wipe the floor with Haye. Too much ring craft, too much power.

Joe Walcott would be gone in the 1st round if he faced anyone as fast, sharp, and deadly a puncher as David Haye... Walcott was beaten many times and knocked out several times -- sometimes by super slow and inept guys like Abe Simon in his 35th fight ... at a time when Walcott was a 10-year pro.