BoxRec

crusader wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

zorndeslammes wrote:Who is the fighter like Kovalev that Calzaghe beat in his career? Or even faced? Not joking here - is the best analog Kessler? Because my sense is that Kovalev is probably a great deal tougher fight than Kessler would have been.

I'm on record as feeling that Calzaghe is ridiculously overrated and it probably isn't a surprise that I'd pick Kovalev to knock his ass out. More important, prime Calzaghe probably never fights Kovalev to let us make that determination.

Kovalev on the other hand hasn't even faced a prime fighter even similar to Calzaghe or even a prime top level LHW. Only Hopkins have similar chin/ recouperative abilities but not the workrate.

And old Jones still could punch.

Jones hadn't stopped anyone in 6 years when JC beat him.

Kovalev wouldve made mincemeat out of people like Anthony Hanshaw, Prince Badi Ajamu, and old blown up Trinidad.

Sure Kovalev would, but nothing I've seen in Kovalev's career suggests that he would stop Calzaghe, especially considering a lesser opponent just survived Kovalev along with Hopkins. Calzaghe has beaten plenty of hyped up punchers even punchers with jabs.

IKSRTFO wrote:

zorndeslammes wrote:Who is the fighter like Kovalev that Calzaghe beat in his career? Or even faced? Not joking here - is the best analog Kessler? Because my sense is that Kovalev is probably a great deal tougher fight than Kessler would have been.

I'm on record as feeling that Calzaghe is ridiculously overrated and it probably isn't a surprise that I'd pick Kovalev to knock his ass out. More important, prime Calzaghe probably never fights Kovalev to let us make that determination.

Kovalev on the other hand hasn't even faced a prime fighter even similar to Calzaghe or even a prime top level LHW. Only Hopkins have similar chin/ recouperative abilities but not the workrate.

And old Jones still could punch.

You'd have to make the argument Jones could still punch, as he put down Calzaghe in the first well past Jones' sell by. Calzaghe would be moving up in weight to face a much bigger, much harder punching guy than the journeymen middleweights he spent most of his career against. For all the chatter about what great things Calzaghe did, a Kovalev win over Ward probably makes him have the highter caliber of opposition faced and beaten. That's not necessarily an endorsement of Kovalev's opposition but more a damning statement about the guy who fought Mario Veit twice.

Sure Kovalev would, but nothing I've seen in Kovalev's career suggests that he would stop Calzaghe, especially considering a lesser opponent just survived Kovalev along with Hopkins. Calzaghe has beaten plenty of hyped up punchers even punchers with jabs.

Styles make fights. Even with a spoiler style intended to frustrate and survive, Kovalev still nearly got the fight over early with one shot. Calzaghe, on the other hand, doesn't fight like that.

GPTM1403 wrote:Bearing in mind he took a full on forearm smash in the face from Jones in the first round and got back up and dominated

LOL "Full on forearm smash!!!" ... Actually Roy's wrist hit Calzaghe in the face and knocked him down.. It was the inside of the wrist as Calzaghe ducked into a right hook that was intended for the body.. A forearm smash is when the thickest part of the ulna, near the elbow, smashes you flush in the face.. The wrist blow didn't seem hard but Calzaghe went down and seemed a little shaken when he got up.. When Hopkins floored JC it was more a hard push than a punch. When Mitchell dropped JC it was a terrific chin shot that really nailed him good.. Calzaghe went down hard but recovered quickly.. He was about 30 and could probably absorb a hard shot better then.

Kovalev eventually catches Calaghe in an exchange...late rounds

Calzaghe would have gotten KO'ed by Kovalev.
All that slapping and running worked against the Lacy, Veit, Sheika and those type guys.

A slightly slightly faded Kessler got shut out by Ward.

The Hopkins fight wasn't nearly a triumph. Hopkins won 5 or 6 rounds.
Calzaghe mostly slapped air and beat a Hopkins in full spoiler mode.
2001 Hopkins would have been able to continue outboxing Calzaghe and outwork him down the stretch.
But grasping for straws really comes when Calzaghe's legitimacy is tied to Roy Jones Jr.

Calzaghe would have won the 1st two rounds against Kovalev.
Then, Krusher (Roy ) would have started jabbing in round 3 ... Calzaghe still wins the round.
In round 4, 6 and 8(TKO) Kovalev would score KDs on Calzaghe.

Joe wouldn't have fought a Kovalev anyway, or even a GGG for that matter.
Crazy how Floyd get scrutinized while this guy gets legitimate respect.

Calzaghe gives Kovalev a boxing lesson for me.

Kalan wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:What happens?

Kovalev wins by KO... Calzaghe arguably lost to Hopkins in that close SD... He was knocked down by Jones, Hopkins, and Mitchell... Calzaghe got hit with cranked up swings by Mitchell and hit the deck hard... He never fought a good prime fighter... He either fought guys with no boxing skills like Lacy and Kessler -- or he fought old men like Jones or Hopkins... Kovalev has a superb jab and right hand... He would murder Calzaghe.

I believe Andre Ward would beat Calzaghe too.. He outboxed Kessler by a much wider margin than Calzaghe did, and made a Danish pastry out of him.

I think Calzaghe beats Ward; he out works him. Both are difficult fighters to out smart, but I just think Calzaghe doesn't know how to lose.

You can't compare the Kessler that faced Calzaghe vs the one won that Ward beat.

Loki wrote:

Kalan wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:What happens?

Kovalev wins by KO... Calzaghe arguably lost to Hopkins in that close SD... He was knocked down by Jones, Hopkins, and Mitchell... Calzaghe got hit with cranked up swings by Mitchell and hit the deck hard... He never fought a good prime fighter... He either fought guys with no boxing skills like Lacy and Kessler -- or he fought old men like Jones or Hopkins... Kovalev has a superb jab and right hand... He would murder Calzaghe.

I believe Andre Ward would beat Calzaghe too.. He outboxed Kessler by a much wider margin than Calzaghe did, and made a Danish pastry out of him.

I think Calzaghe beats Ward; he out works him. Both are difficult fighters to out smart, but I just think Calzaghe doesn't know how to lose.

You can't compare the Kessler that faced Calzaghe vs the one won that Ward beat.

Calzaghe was very hard indeed to beat, however, he didn't face anybody as awkward and talented as Ward in his prime.

I think it would have been very close indeed.

Does Ward know how to lose more than JC does?

crusader wrote:Does Ward know how to lose more than JC does?

We will see. There are similarities, both are perpetual winners and both didn't and don't like travelling. I just think Calazghe had additional levels when needed. Although Wards wins over Froch (anyone with speed would've and have given him trouble) and Kessler were great - I'll reserve total judgement until Ward beats Kovalev (which he might not).

Kalan wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:What happens?

Kovalev wins by KO... Calzaghe arguably lost to Hopkins in that close SD... He was knocked down by Jones, Hopkins, and Mitchell... Calzaghe got hit with cranked up swings by Mitchell and hit the deck hard... He never fought a good prime fighter... He either fought guys with no boxing skills like Lacy and Kessler -- or he fought old men like Jones or Hopkins... Kovalev has a superb jab and right hand... He would murder Calzaghe.

I believe Andre Ward would beat Calzaghe too.. He outboxed Kessler by a much wider margin than Calzaghe did, and made a Danish pastry out of him.

Sorry but Kessler and no boxing skills are 2 things that don't go together. Also Kessler wasn't the same fighter when Ward got him. Not a drastic difference but he was massively up and down by that stage. If we're into arguably then Hopkins arguably should have been regularly docked points or disqualified for not fighting that night. Yes you can argue that fight but then you have to argue all the points and then take into account what Hopkins did AFTER that fight. Describing Hopkins as old at that time is disingenuous. And personally, as said before, the Jones knockdown needs looking at to understand the relevance, the glove missed and he took a full on forearm smash in the mush, to take that cold and get up and shake it off so quickly says a lot about recuperative powers. Calzaghe is a very hard call against anyone because no matter how much logic says the odds are stacked against him, logic just didn't seem to apply to what happened in the fights themselves. And if Hopkins was old when Calzaghe fought him then Kovalev's one big name performance gets written off since it was against the same man when he was much older. I really don't think you can make a definitive call about Calzaghe in what if fights.

Kessler and weak boxing skills go together perfectly... All you have to do is watch Ward-Kessler... Ward had only 20 fights at that time.

Calzaghe had a few crude skills...and that's why he beat Kessler. But he didn't whitewash him like Ward... Kovalev is very skilled and would wreck Calzaghe

Calzaghe had a superior hand and foot speed, but the Kovalev power could stop the fight in any moment.

Kalan wrote:Kessler and weak boxing skills go together perfectly... All you have to do is watch Ward-Kessler... Ward had only 20 fights at that time.

Calzaghe had a few crude skills...and that's why he beat Kessler. But he didn't whitewash him like Ward... Kovalev is very skilled and would wreck Calzaghe

Yes, against a gold medalist who hasn't lost pro or amateur since his was 12! 12! When did Kovalev make the Olympic team again? Kovalev couldn't even beat GGG in sparring. Ward was great before he even turned pro.

Don't bother biting, Kalan was around since John L Sullivan was in his pomp, he knows EVERYTHING about boxing.

Kalan wrote:Kessler and weak boxing skills go together perfectly... All you have to do is watch Ward-Kessler... Ward had only 20 fights at that time.

Calzaghe had a few crude skills...and that's why he beat Kessler. But he didn't whitewash him like Ward... Kovalev is very skilled and would wreck Calzaghe

Never in a million years,skilled yes,wreck Calzaghe,no chance.

Calzaghe was wide open... he led with his face... he was easy to hit with jabs and straights... He taught himself how to box because he lacked a trainer who knew Boxing. Calzaghe seemed very talented and had great raw material - but when I saw his hands being wrapped for sparring on 24/7 I LOL.. Here's a world class fighter and the way his hands were wrapped was an abomination. No wonder he had broken mitts all the time.

Calzaghe predicted that undefeated World Champion, Nathan Cleverly, would beat Kovalev... I laughed at that too.

The fight was in Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff, Wales and Calzaghe was shouting instructions at Cleverly from ringside.. Cleverly fought in the same face forward style as Calzaghe.. He was easily jabbed and boxed to death and absolutely destroyed by Kovalev.. To show you how stupid Cleverly's team was, the referee carried Cleverly back to his corner after the 3rd round and they still let Cleverly go out for the 4th round.. NOOOOO!!!!! That action subjected Cleverly to savage punishment when he was already badly hurt; it would be funny if it weren't so sad.. You knew he was going to be gone in a minute... That was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in Boxing from the corner of a World Title holder.

Kalan wrote:Calzaghe was wide open... he led with his face... he was easy to hit with jabs and straights... He taught himself how to box because he lacked a trainer who knew Boxing. Calzaghe seemed very talented and had great raw material - but when I saw his hands being wrapped for sparring on 24/7 I LOL.. Here's a world class fighter and the way his hands were wrapped was an abomination. No wonder he had broken mitts all the time.

Calzaghe predicted that undefeated World Champion, Nathan Cleverly, would beat Kovalev... I laughed at that too.

The fight was in Motorpoint Arena in Cardiff, Wales and Calzaghe was shouting instructions at Cleverly from ringside.. Cleverly fought in the same face forward style as Calzaghe.. He was easily jabbed and boxed to death and absolutely destroyed by Kovalev.. To show you how stupid Cleverly's team was, the referee carried Cleverly back to his corner after the 3rd round and they still let Cleverly go out for the 4th round.. NOOOOO!!!!! That action subjected Cleverly to savage punishment when he was already badly hurt; it would be funny if it weren't so sad.. You knew he was going to be gone in a minute... That was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in Boxing from the corner of a World Title holder.

That would explain why he lost so many fights and got beat up in every fight,idiot.

If cal hasn't hit the deck the fight isn't really underway. But once he gets up he turns the tide and ends up with the decision.

Kalan wrote:Kessler and weak boxing skills go together perfectly... All you have to do is watch Ward-Kessler... Ward had only 20 fights at that time.

Calzaghe had a few crude skills...and that's why he beat Kessler. But he didn't whitewash him like Ward... Kovalev is very skilled and would wreck Calzaghe

are you confusing weak boxing skills with unasthetically pleasing boxing skills ? its not about what moves you got its about how you use those moves, ie ring IQ, and as for kovalov wrecking calzaghe, yeah he looked a real beast eating jabs all night against chilemba !

How about we change the quesrion to 'who believes Calzaghe would have fought Kovalev'?

My guess is no, he wpuld have avoides him, therwfore i'm not prepared to entertain him saying he would beat so and so when i'm confident he would have stayed well clear of them.

got to be joe, Kessler v kovalev would be a cracker