BoxRec

asdfjkl wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Perseus wrote:
Based on their own rules the WBA was already lenient on Browne but apparently the Browne camp feels like the rules don't apply to them.
They didn't even bother with the appeal process that is required by the rules. Skipped and went straight to court.

As much as people want to act like the ONLY use for Clenbuterol is weight loss it's just not true.
Two minutes of spare time and internet access is all it takes to dismiss the false claim that a heavyweight boxer would get no benefit from Clenbuterol use.

Clenbuterol increases the lung capacity and endurance of the user. That is why a heavyweight would use it.
It's out of the system in 25-40 hours, if they don't test the athlete at the right time they don't catch them.

So how long does the benefit that it provides stay around for?

According to uneducated black Americans around 25-40 years. According to science, it hasn't even been proven to have any positive effect on athletes at all ever.

That's meldonium.
The drug in question on this thread is Clenbuterol.

Ortiz is the interim WBA champ they should just make him full champ since he would have easly crushed both.

Or they could mandate Oquendo to fight Ortiz for the vacant title.

Enlightened-One wrote:The Lucas Browne court hearing has been rescheduled to take place for the 24th August. It’s too much of a coincidence, in my mind, that this announcement has been made in the midst of the media furore about the Russian Olympic drug scandal. Perhaps the WBA are reconsidering their position?

Am I wrong in thinking that VADA doesn’t have any ground troops in Russia, so when Browne failed the drug test administered after the Chagaev bout, it must have been performed by an independent Russian agency?

When you’ve got fellow pros, like Tony Bellew, refusing to compete in Russia (due to the recent drug scandals), coupled with Russia’s anti-doping lab admitting to cheating tests for several years, it does add some credibility to Lucas Browne’s defence.

It seems that the WBA acted hastily in issuing a ban to Browne and stripping him of his title, especially if there are lingering doubts about the accuracy of the test results.

http://vada-testing.org/forms/vada_spec ... edures.pdf

It looks like you are correct.
Third paragraph, second line: "the sample collection organization that is supplying the Doping Control Officer (DCO) who will oversee the sample collection on-site"

That's interesting and can only help the Browne case.
At the same time it is unlikely that VADA found a tiny amount of a banned substance in Povetkin by using the very same people everybody wants to avoid.
Same goes for the Browne case.
VADA is/was probably just as wary of the Russian agencies as everybody else.
What "sample collection organization" did they send?
Plus it's still just a conspiracy theory that they need a court to go along with.
Probably the best conspiracy theory ever(as far as athletes and drug tests go) but still something that's going to be tough to prove.

The WBA acted on the information they had at the time. All this information about state lead drug cheating came out well after the Browne/Chagaev fight.
What they had at the time was a failed drug test and a boxer claiming he was innocent, nothing more.
Plus the WBA has a court order to get Oquendo a fight for this title which likely hastened their actions(and could possibly help the Browne case).

It certainly is interesting though.
Usually these claims of being set up are just ridiculous, this is by far the most reasonable one I can recall.
The Browne camp needs to stop with the "heavyweights get no benefit from Clenbuterol" though. It's just not true.
Clenbuterol isn't a miracle drug, you still have to burn more calories than you take in to lose weight. If you want the aerobic benefit of Clenbuterol but aren't trying to drop weight increase your calorie intake.

I think that suspension pending a thorough investigation would have been a more appropriate course of action for the WBA to take - even if it took a couple of months.

That being said, Lucas Browne really should have followed protocol by submitting an appeal to the WBA and ask them to reconsider their punishment. So the Aussie may have reacted emotionally rather than logically, by filing the lawsuit instead of the appeal.

I don’t know enough about the lawsuit to make any real judgement, but the recent Russian drug cheat scandal, coupled with fellow pros like Fury & Bellew flatly-refusing to fight in Russia, certainly suggests that Browne may have legitimate reasons to feel aggrieved.

I guess it doesn’t help when the boxing organisations don’t act consistently (i.e. the IBF clearing Lamont Peterson of doping, whilst the WBA refused to).

There's rumours going around that Browne is going to end up fighting Haye for the belt.

Enlightened-One wrote:I think that suspension pending a thorough investigation would have been a more appropriate course of action for the WBA to take - even if it took a couple of months.

That being said, Lucas Browne really should have followed protocol by submitting an appeal to the WBA and ask them to reconsider their punishment. So the Aussie may have reacted emotionally rather than logically, by filing the lawsuit instead of the appeal.

I don’t know enough about the lawsuit to make any real judgement, but the recent Russian drug cheat scandal, coupled with fellow pros like Fury & Bellew flatly-refusing to fight in Russia, certainly suggests that Browne may have legitimate reasons to feel aggrieved.

I guess it doesn’t help when the boxing organisations don’t act consistently (i.e. the IBF clearing Lamont Peterson of doping, whilst the WBA refused to).

All the other events certainly help Browne as long as you're willing to go along with a conspiracy theory.
He should have followed protocol but it's too late for that now.

We'll see what happens, my guess is the court will tell Browne to follow the appeal process unless the WBA agrees to bypass that part.

Good on Chagaev if he has indeed to decided to stay retired. I felt like he should have stopped fighting a few years ago, glad to see he has not let a title belt change his mind.

lefty wrote:There's rumours going around that Browne is going to end up fighting Haye for the belt.

That's a joke.

So what the fuuck is the point of an interim title.

Luis Ortiz is the real wba champ now regardless what they announce.

The WBAs take on things is :

Fight 1 : Ortiz vs Ustinov - September 17th

Fight 2 : Fury vs Klitschko - when they finally get around to it.

Fight 3 : Winner 1 vs Winner 2.

Fight 4 : Oquendo vs Winner 3.

Chances of it playing out that way are probably long odds.

Like a Boss wrote:The WBAs take on things is :

Fight 1 : Ortiz vs Ustinov - September 17th

Fight 2 : Fury vs Klitschko - when they finally get around to it.

Fight 3 : Winner 1 vs Winner 2.

Fight 4 : Oquendo vs Winner 3.

Chances of it playing out that way are probably long odds.

Oquendo will be 50-years-old by the time they reach fight 4.

I heard that Ortiz vs Ustinov fight is falling apart after Chagaev was stripped.

Perseus wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:


So how long does the benefit that it provides stay around for?

According to uneducated black Americans around 25-40 years. According to science, it hasn't even been proven to have any positive effect on athletes at all ever.

That's meldonium.
The drug in question on this thread is Clenbuterol.

Oh yea, sorry, you're right.
They probably still think the same, but at least this sometimes actually has a positive effect (even though not allways).

Perseus wrote:

Like a Boss wrote:The WBAs take on things is :

Fight 1 : Ortiz vs Ustinov - September 17th

Fight 2 : Fury vs Klitschko - when they finally get around to it.

Fight 3 : Winner 1 vs Winner 2.

Fight 4 : Oquendo vs Winner 3.

Chances of it playing out that way are probably long odds.

Oquendo will be 50-years-old by the time they reach fight 4.

I was thinking the same thing

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/4300 ... s-stripped

Lucas Browne may face Fres Oquendo as a way to settle the lawsuit Browne filed against the WBA, WBA president Gilberto Mendoza Jr. has said.

This is only possible because Chagaev has been stripped of his WBA regular heavyweight title and removed from the ratings for failing to pay a sanctioning fee of $40,750 for a previous bout with Oquendo, according to a letter from the WBA to Chagaev.

Chagaev was supposed to face Oquendo after the title was given back to him after Browne’s positive test, but now Browne may be given that opportunity.

Browne filed suit against the WBA in May in Tacoma, Washington, claiming he didn’t intentionally digest any banned substances. Browne has offered that he might have eaten steak the night before the fight that contained clenbuterol.

Mendoza said the WBA may order that Browne and Oquendo face each other as a way to resolve Browne’s lawsuit.

“As you may know, Browne sued the WBA in Washington state,” Mendoza wrote. “A settlement possibility could be Oquendo v. Browne for the regular title in order to continue the tournament.”

Asked to clarify, Mendoza suggested a fight with Oquendo could be used as an olive branch to clear up the lawsuit. “There could be the possibility for a settlement,” he wrote.

Like a Boss wrote:http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/4300 ... s-stripped

Lucas Browne may face Fres Oquendo as a way to settle the lawsuit Browne filed against the WBA, WBA president Gilberto Mendoza Jr. has said.

This is only possible because Chagaev has been stripped of his WBA regular heavyweight title and removed from the ratings for failing to pay a sanctioning fee of $40,750 for a previous bout with Oquendo, according to a letter from the WBA to Chagaev.

Chagaev was supposed to face Oquendo after the title was given back to him after Browne’s positive test, but now Browne may be given that opportunity.

Browne filed suit against the WBA in May in Tacoma, Washington, claiming he didn’t intentionally digest any banned substances. Browne has offered that he might have eaten steak the night before the fight that contained clenbuterol.

Mendoza said the WBA may order that Browne and Oquendo face each other as a way to resolve Browne’s lawsuit.

“As you may know, Browne sued the WBA in Washington state,” Mendoza wrote. “A settlement possibility could be Oquendo v. Browne for the regular title in order to continue the tournament.”

Asked to clarify, Mendoza suggested a fight with Oquendo could be used as an olive branch to clear up the lawsuit. “There could be the possibility for a settlement,” he wrote.

How long was the suspension the WBA gave Browne a few months back?
6 months?
9 months?
I really don't remember and I'm not going to bother looking it up.

Regardless of length Browne should serve that suspension before a fight with Oquendo goes forward.
I don't see any problem with Browne fighting Oquendo after the suspension expires.
It would be from the day of the Chagaev fight so almost five months has already passed.

Perseus wrote:

Like a Boss wrote:http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/4300 ... s-stripped

Lucas Browne may face Fres Oquendo as a way to settle the lawsuit Browne filed against the WBA, WBA president Gilberto Mendoza Jr. has said.

This is only possible because Chagaev has been stripped of his WBA regular heavyweight title and removed from the ratings for failing to pay a sanctioning fee of $40,750 for a previous bout with Oquendo, according to a letter from the WBA to Chagaev.

Chagaev was supposed to face Oquendo after the title was given back to him after Browne’s positive test, but now Browne may be given that opportunity.

Browne filed suit against the WBA in May in Tacoma, Washington, claiming he didn’t intentionally digest any banned substances. Browne has offered that he might have eaten steak the night before the fight that contained clenbuterol.

Mendoza said the WBA may order that Browne and Oquendo face each other as a way to resolve Browne’s lawsuit.

“As you may know, Browne sued the WBA in Washington state,” Mendoza wrote. “A settlement possibility could be Oquendo v. Browne for the regular title in order to continue the tournament.”

Asked to clarify, Mendoza suggested a fight with Oquendo could be used as an olive branch to clear up the lawsuit. “There could be the possibility for a settlement,” he wrote.

How long was the suspension the WBA gave Browne a few months back?
6 months?
9 months?
I really don't remember and I'm not going to bother looking it up.

Regardless of length Browne should serve that suspension before a fight with Oquendo goes forward.
I don't see any problem with Browne fighting Oquendo after the suspension expires.
It would be from the day of the Chagaev fight so almost five months has already passed.

Browne received a 6 month suspension from the WBA. He fought Chagaev on March 5th.

I guess his 6 suspension ends September 5th.

By the time a Browne vs Oquendo fight was scheduled and they completed training camps it would be September 5th.

It would probably be well after September 5th.

The Browne camp should be very happy with this news. Lucas should be a solid favorite to beat Oquendo.

Perseus wrote:It would probably be well after September 5th.

The Browne camp should be very happy with this news. Lucas should be a solid favorite to beat Oquendo.

I'm sympathetic with Oquendo because he has been robbed in so many fights, but how his name gets in the mix with current top heavyweights totally eludes me. His last big win was 13 years ago when he beat Byrd - and then the convicts in judge suits gave it to Byrd anyway (that's the fight that George Foreman got fired over for speaking out on the air about crooked judge decisions).

x2x wrote:

Perseus wrote:It would probably be well after September 5th.

The Browne camp should be very happy with this news. Lucas should be a solid favorite to beat Oquendo.

I'm sympathetic with Oquendo because he has been robbed in so many fights, but how his name gets in the mix with current top heavyweights totally eludes me. His last big win was 13 years ago when he beat Byrd - and then the convicts in judge suits gave it to Byrd anyway (that's the fight that George Foreman got fired over for speaking out on the air about crooked judge decisions).

The reason his name remains in the mix is because of the successful court action that secured him a mandatory rematch with Chagaev.

I have a sneaking suspicion the Browne vs WBA court case will be settled out of court.

Browne Chagaev Oquendo and Haye in mix for WBA title.... What next, harley davidson offering an ash tray as an optional extra

Wales wrote:Browne Chagaev Oquendo and Haye in mix for WBA title.... What next, harley davidson offering an ash tray as an optional extra

Welcome to boxing 2016 style.

It seems that my comments in this thread were accurate, because the WBA are now actively looking to settle Lucas Browne’s lawsuit with them.

Enlightened-One wrote:It seems that my comments in this thread were accurate, because the WBA are now actively looking to settle Lucas Browne’s lawsuit with them.

I suspect they already have and anticipate there will be an announcement shortly after Browne's suspension is completed that he will fight Oquendo next.

This WBA Super and Regular Champion bullsh*t is stupid beyond belief. It was bad enough when alphabet gangsterism came along but this is just epically dumb.