BoxRec

Holmes cites Shavers as the hardest puncher because he withstood every punch Shavers threw -- and he both beat Shavers and knocked him out.

It's like asking Joe Frazier who was the toughest guy he fought... "Hard to say...Bonavena probably... Quarry was real tough too.. it's hard to say"

Forget it... That word Foreman was not going to come out of his mouth.

Wrong, as always. Frazier gives Foreman a lot of credit. He admitted in his autobiography that although he'd been knocked down before, Foreman was the first man to truly hurt him.

As for Holmes withstanding every punch Shavers threw - evidently that's yet another historic fight you haven't seen but feel qualified to discuss. Holmes had to move all night, both times - because of Shavers' one punch power. Second he stopped moving - he got decked. Holmes in his own words was KOd but awoke because he hit the canvas so hard.

Tyson hit a near 40 year old Holmes with the same shot and Holmes got up at - what was it? - 1, 2?

Holmes couldn't move anymore versus McCall, not that he needed to. McCall, as he showed versus Holmes and Bruno, wasn't a deadly hitter like Earnie Shavers. In all these years following boxing I've never heard anyone make such a stupid assertion.

Boxbuzz?

Kalan wrote:Holmes cites Shavers as the hardest puncher because he withstood every punch Shavers threw -- and he both beat Shavers and knocked him out.

It's like asking Joe Frazier who was the toughest guy he fought... "Hard to say...Bonavena probably... Quarry was real tough too.. it's hard to say"

Forget it... That word Foreman was not going to come out of his mouth.

Frazier liked Quarry.

I learned a long time ago not to take boxer's public assessments of other boxers seriously.

Tuan_Jim wrote:Wrong, as always. Frazier gives Foreman a lot of credit. He admitted in his autobiography that although he'd been knocked down before, Foreman was the first man to truly hurt him.

As for Holmes withstanding every punch Shavers threw - evidently that's yet another historic fight you haven't seen but feel qualified to discuss. Holmes had to move all night, both times - because of Shavers' one punch power. Second he stopped moving - he got decked. Holmes in his own words was KOd but awoke because he hit the canvas so hard.

Tyson hit a near 40 year old Holmes with the same shot and Holmes got up at - what was it? - 1, 2?

Holmes couldn't move anymore versus McCall, not that he needed to. McCall, as he showed versus Holmes and Bruno, wasn't a deadly hitter like Earnie Shavers. In all these years following boxing I've never heard anyone make such a stupid assertion.

Boxbuzz?

Shavers hit guys who WEREN'T elusive... Stander, Lyle, Quarry, Mercado, Cobb, Stallings, and many others tough guys throughout his career. They could take a good shot and survived his power... and many of them knocked Shavers out... Your analysis is more shallow than BuzzBox's.

I took out your personal attack......make your point, express your opinion.....don't go after folks with an insult just because you don't agree. We need to ratchet it down......you'll end up spoiling my and possibly other folks tea and crumpets.

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Wrong, as always. Frazier gives Foreman a lot of credit. He admitted in his autobiography that although he'd been knocked down before, Foreman was the first man to truly hurt him.

As for Holmes withstanding every punch Shavers threw - evidently that's yet another historic fight you haven't seen but feel qualified to discuss. Holmes had to move all night, both times - because of Shavers' one punch power. Second he stopped moving - he got decked. Holmes in his own words was KOd but awoke because he hit the canvas so hard.

Tyson hit a near 40 year old Holmes with the same shot and Holmes got up at - what was it? - 1, 2?

Holmes couldn't move anymore versus McCall, not that he needed to. McCall, as he showed versus Holmes and Bruno, wasn't a deadly hitter like Earnie Shavers. In all these years following boxing I've never heard anyone make such a stupid assertion.

Boxbuzz?

Shavers hit guys who WEREN'T elusive... Stander, Lyle, Quarry, Mercado, Cobb, Stallings, and many others tough guys throughout his career. They could take a good shot and survived his power... and many of them knocked Shavers out... Your analysis is more shallow than BuzzBox's.

Remember watching Shavers vs Stander and Stallings, do you? I'm sure it's very easy to stand in front of Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry and Bernado Mercado and just whale away without a thought of what might be returned.

Kalan, the reasoning for your downgrading of Earnie Shavers' power, against all accepted logic, is the painfully facile: 'he hit some people who didn't go.' Can you name me one single heavyweight in history who KOd every man he hit square? We know Mike Tyson didn't. Neither did Joe Louis, or Wladimir Klitschko, or George Foreman, or Lennox Lewis.

Probably best you don't cite Oliver McCall, who couldn't hurt Frank Bruno or a 45 year old Larry Holmes.

Kalan wrote:Mike Tyson was a much harder puncher than Shavers and so were a 100 other boxers... Shavers wasn't very big or strong for one thing... When he hit the huge Cobb.. Stander.. Mercado.. Stallings.. Quarry.. Lyle.. Holmes.. Haakim.. Ali.. Rondon.. and others he couldn't KO them.

Anthony Joshua has no problems stopping folks... He gets everyone out... He's a lot bigger, stronger, and faster.. so therefore he punches much harder.

This is a classic "Kalanism"

Kalan, there is a recording by the "Firesign Theatre" It's title is "Everything you know is wrong".

I just feel like it describes your take on everyone but yourself.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Wrong, as always. Frazier gives Foreman a lot of credit. He admitted in his autobiography that although he'd been knocked down before, Foreman was the first man to truly hurt him.

As for Holmes withstanding every punch Shavers threw - evidently that's yet another historic fight you haven't seen but feel qualified to discuss. Holmes had to move all night, both times - because of Shavers' one punch power. Second he stopped moving - he got decked. Holmes in his own words was KOd but awoke because he hit the canvas so hard.

Tyson hit a near 40 year old Holmes with the same shot and Holmes got up at - what was it? - 1, 2?

Holmes couldn't move anymore versus McCall, not that he needed to. McCall, as he showed versus Holmes and Bruno, wasn't a deadly hitter like Earnie Shavers. In all these years following boxing I've never heard anyone make such a stupid assertion.

Boxbuzz?

Shavers hit guys who WEREN'T elusive... Stander, Lyle, Quarry, Mercado, Cobb, Stallings, and many others tough guys throughout his career. They could take a good shot and survived his power... and many of them knocked Shavers out... Your analysis is more shallow than BuzzBox's.

Remember watching Shavers vs Stander and Stallings, do you? I'm sure it's very easy to stand in front of Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry and Bernado Mercado and just whale away without a thought of what might be returned.

Kalan, the reasoning for your downgrading of Earnie Shavers' power, against all accepted logic, is the painfully facile: 'he hit some people who didn't go.' Can you name me one single heavyweight in history who KOd every man he hit square? We know Mike Tyson didn't. Neither did Joe Louis, or Wladimir Klitschko, or George Foreman, or Lennox Lewis.

Probably best you don't cite Oliver McCall, who couldn't hurt Frank Bruno or a 45 year old Larry Holmes.

He'll tell you Anthony Joshua...and while that's true for now, he conveniently neglects the fact that Joshua has only currently fought 1 Top 10 Heavyweight, and surely won't knock out everyone as he goes along. Nobody does.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:Wrong, as always. Frazier gives Foreman a lot of credit. He admitted in his autobiography that although he'd been knocked down before, Foreman was the first man to truly hurt him.

As for Holmes withstanding every punch Shavers threw - evidently that's yet another historic fight you haven't seen but feel qualified to discuss. Holmes had to move all night, both times - because of Shavers' one punch power. Second he stopped moving - he got decked. Holmes in his own words was KOd but awoke because he hit the canvas so hard.

Tyson hit a near 40 year old Holmes with the same shot and Holmes got up at - what was it? - 1, 2?

Holmes couldn't move anymore versus McCall, not that he needed to. McCall, as he showed versus Holmes and Bruno, wasn't a deadly hitter like Earnie Shavers. In all these years following boxing I've never heard anyone make such a stupid assertion.

Boxbuzz?

Shavers hit guys who WEREN'T elusive... Stander, Lyle, Quarry, Mercado, Cobb, Stallings, and many others tough guys throughout his career. They could take a good shot and survived his power... and many of them knocked Shavers out... Your analysis is more shallow than BuzzBox's.

Remember watching Shavers vs Stander and Stallings, do you? I'm sure it's very easy to stand in front of Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry and Bernado Mercado and just whale away without a thought of what might be returned.

Kalan, the reasoning for your downgrading of Earnie Shavers' power, against all accepted logic, is the painfully facile: 'he hit some people who didn't go.' Can you name me one single heavyweight in history who KOd every man he hit square? We know Mike Tyson didn't. Neither did Joe Louis, or Wladimir Klitschko, or George Foreman, or Lennox Lewis.

Probably best you don't cite Oliver McCall, who couldn't hurt Frank Bruno or a 45 year old Larry Holmes.

The were Heavyweight Champions of the World and McCall out-boxed Holmes for the D... McCall said that was his strategy, not a KO win.

Better for McCall to beat a World Heavyweight Champion than Shavers to lose to Bob Stallings who had a losing record ... and nobody ever heard of him.

Besides, McCall knocked out one of the Greatest Heavyweight Champions in Lennox Lewis... And KO'd another Heavyweight Champion in Henry Akinwande

That's enough ATG World Heavyweight Champions on his KO record

Kalan wrote:Besides, McCall knocked out one of the Greatest Heavyweight Champions in Lennox Lewis... And KO'd another Heavyweight Champion in Henry Akinwande

That's enough ATG World Heavyweight Champions on his KO record

It was McCall's strategy to scrape by a 45 year old man by 1 point? A man who in his absolute prime was decked heavily by Shavers? Holmes wrote in his autobiography that Shavers was 35 by that point, and thank God he started to show it - that's how intimidated Holmes was by Shavers' power.

Your fixation on the Bob Stallings loss is laughable. When Shavers lost to Stallings he had only boxed 1 round in a year. He hadn't gone past the second round in over 2 years. He met a slippery wily veteran and paid for his ring rust. It happens in boxing.Why don't you understand this?

Holmes stated that when Tyson hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Ferrari and when Shavers hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Mack Truck. Yes, Holmes stated that Shavers hit harder than Tyson. If Shavers hit Chuvalo with one big really heavy shot had it happened, Chuvalo would never felt anything like that before and he would be the only time that he was on the canvas had he fought Shavers. Shavers would be the only man to knock Chuvalo down and out or Chuvalo got up from a knockdown and Shavers stopped him like Frazier and Foreman. That is my opinion.

scorpio83 wrote:Holmes stated that when Tyson hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Ferrari and when Shavers hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Mack Truck. Yes, Holmes stated that Shavers hit harder than Tyson. If Shavers hit Chuvalo with one big really heavy shot had it happened, Chuvalo would never felt anything like that before and he would be the only time that he was on the canvas had he fought Shavers. Shavers would be the only man to knock Chuvalo down and out or Chuvalo got up from a knockdown and Shavers stopped him like Frazier and Foreman. That is my opinion.

Now I ask you, how far would Shavers have gone if he'd had Chuvalo's chin?

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

scorpio83 wrote:Holmes stated that when Tyson hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Ferrari and when Shavers hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Mack Truck. Yes, Holmes stated that Shavers hit harder than Tyson. If Shavers hit Chuvalo with one big really heavy shot had it happened, Chuvalo would never felt anything like that before and he would be the only time that he was on the canvas had he fought Shavers. Shavers would be the only man to knock Chuvalo down and out or Chuvalo got up from a knockdown and Shavers stopped him like Frazier and Foreman. That is my opinion.

Now I ask you, how far would Shavers have gone if he'd had Chuvalo's chin?

Not that much further without somebody else's stamina. Shavers chin wasn't particularly bad, he typically just gassed.

Flump wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

scorpio83 wrote:Holmes stated that when Tyson hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Ferrari and when Shavers hit him, he felt like he was hit with a Mack Truck. Yes, Holmes stated that Shavers hit harder than Tyson. If Shavers hit Chuvalo with one big really heavy shot had it happened, Chuvalo would never felt anything like that before and he would be the only time that he was on the canvas had he fought Shavers. Shavers would be the only man to knock Chuvalo down and out or Chuvalo got up from a knockdown and Shavers stopped him like Frazier and Foreman. That is my opinion.

Now I ask you, how far would Shavers have gone if he'd had Chuvalo's chin?

Not that much further without somebody else's stamina. Shavers chin wasn't particularly bad, he typically just gassed.

Ok, he gets Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin. Does that help??

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Flump wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Now I ask you, how far would Shavers have gone if he'd had Chuvalo's chin?

Not that much further without somebody else's stamina. Shavers chin wasn't particularly bad, he typically just gassed.

Ok, he gets Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin. Does that help??

If Shavers had Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin, he would knock Chuvalo out in late rounds. If Shavers were to knock Chuvalo down and out, it would have to be in the early rounds, which was a safe bet. One of Shavers' fight that made to the late rounds was knocking Roy "Tiger" Williams in the tenth and final round.

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Flump wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Now I ask you, how far would Shavers have gone if he'd had Chuvalo's chin?

Not that much further without somebody else's stamina. Shavers chin wasn't particularly bad, he typically just gassed.

Ok, he gets Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin. Does that help??

Yeah that helps. Then he would steamroller most, but would still struggle with movers like Ali and Holmes, though the version of Ali he fought he beats.

scorpio83 wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Flump wrote:
Not that much further without somebody else's stamina. Shavers chin wasn't particularly bad, he typically just gassed.

Ok, he gets Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin. Does that help??

If Shavers had Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin, he would knock Chuvalo out in late rounds. If Shavers were to knock Chuvalo down and out, it would have to be in the early rounds, which was a safe bet. One of Shavers' fight that made to the late rounds was knocking Roy "Tiger" Williams in the tenth and final round.

Wait a sec -- it sounds like you are contradicting yourself: first you say he would knock Chuvalo out "in late rounds,"
then you say he would have to knock him out "in the early rounds" --- ???

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

scorpio83 wrote:

Cutman Scabbers wrote:

Ok, he gets Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin. Does that help??

If Shavers had Chuvalo's stamina along with his chin, he would knock Chuvalo out in late rounds. If Shavers were to knock Chuvalo down and out, it would have to be in the early rounds, which was a safe bet. One of Shavers' fight that made to the late rounds was knocking Roy "Tiger" Williams in the tenth and final round.

Wait a sec -- it sounds like you are contradicting yourself: first you say he would knock Chuvalo out "in late rounds,"
then you say he would have to knock him out "in the early rounds" --- ???

I am not contradicting myself, I am trying to say between the early and late rounds, "if" only "if" Shavers catch him with one big punch, he would be the only man to knock Chuvalo down and out.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:Besides, McCall knocked out one of the Greatest Heavyweight Champions in Lennox Lewis... And KO'd another Heavyweight Champion in Henry Akinwande

That's enough ATG World Heavyweight Champions on his KO record

It was McCall's strategy to scrape by a 45 year old man by 1 point? A man who in his absolute prime was decked heavily by Shavers? Holmes wrote in his autobiography that Shavers was 35 by that point, and thank God he started to show it - that's how intimidated Holmes was by Shavers' power.

Your fixation on the Bob Stallings loss is laughable. When Shavers lost to Stallings he had only boxed 1 round in a year. He hadn't gone past the second round in over 2 years. He met a slippery wily veteran and paid for his ring rust. It happens in boxing.Why don't you understand this?

I do understand Shavers lack of ability.. When FATBOY Ron Stander knocked Shavers out cold -- Shavers had 6 fights in the previous 4 months so ring rust was not an excuse that time was it???? Come on...What's you're excuse???

Vitali Klitschko was off for 4 years and hadn't fought a single round... And he was 37 years old... And he came back and beat a 30-1 Heavyweight who only had a single decision loss previously -- and battered him out in 7 to take his World Heavyweight Title... He didn't have to claim ring rust because he won

Kalan wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Kalan wrote:Besides, McCall knocked out one of the Greatest Heavyweight Champions in Lennox Lewis... And KO'd another Heavyweight Champion in Henry Akinwande

That's enough ATG World Heavyweight Champions on his KO record

It was McCall's strategy to scrape by a 45 year old man by 1 point? A man who in his absolute prime was decked heavily by Shavers? Holmes wrote in his autobiography that Shavers was 35 by that point, and thank God he started to show it - that's how intimidated Holmes was by Shavers' power.

Your fixation on the Bob Stallings loss is laughable. When Shavers lost to Stallings he had only boxed 1 round in a year. He hadn't gone past the second round in over 2 years. He met a slippery wily veteran and paid for his ring rust. It happens in boxing.Why don't you understand this?

I do understand Shavers lack of ability.. When FATBOY Ron Stander knocked Shavers out cold -- Shavers had 6 fights in the previous 4 months so ring rust was not an excuse that time was it???? Come on...What's you're excuse???

Vitali Klitschko was off for 4 years and hadn't fought a single round... And he was 37 years old... And he came back and beat a 30-1 Heavyweight who only had a single decision loss previously -- and battered him out in 7 to take his World Heavyweight Title... He didn't have to claim ring rust because he won

Vitali Klitschko beats an immobile 250lb+ punchbag after 4 years out & in doing so retroactively erases ring rust as a valid excuse throughout boxing history? Got it.

Btw, since you're having to learn about these fighters as you write, Ron Stander wasn't yet fat when he fought Shavers, and Shavers broke his right hand in that fight. Bad things can happen when inexperienced punchers meet journeymen with hard heads - see Purrity/Klitschko for instance - but they can later develop into experienced, world class fighters. Again, it's called boxing.

Shavers had a lot more experience than Stander and was knocked out cold by an inept swinger... His dainty little hands couldn't take the fat boy out.. And Stander was VERY fat for that fight.. He was ALWAYS fat for every fight.

Klitschko wasn't knocked cold by Puritty like Shavers was by Stander.. Wlad was under fire and could feel Puritty's punches weakening from the long, desperation attack.. Unfortunately his corner guy came into the ring and walked towards him.. The referee had no choice but to stop it then.. Klitschko had the flu before the fight and weighed 224.. He never came within 10 pounds of being that light ever again.. You can have all kinds of excuses but losses still stand..

Shavers had an exception number of losses and KO losses for a big name Heavyweight... Often when he tried to slug it out---he got slugged out.