BoxRec

boxing_rocks wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:
Better than Hopkins?

Golovkin would have had a hell of a fight on his hands against Bernard.

I love watching GGG but B-Hop he's a throw back to the great defencive fighter's of yester-year he would out box GGG out smart GGG out last GGG any day of the week when he [B-Hop] was in his prime.

What is such confidence based on? Bernard in his prime lost twice to Taylor. Not sure what precludes a possibility of him losing to GGG.[/quot

So was B-Hop in his prime when he lost his Middleweight title to Taylor 11 year's after winning it at the age of 40 stop exposing yourself

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

I love watching GGG but B-Hop he's a throw back to the great defencive fighter's of yester-year he would out box GGG out smart GGG out last GGG any day of the week when he [B-Hop] was in his prime.

What is such confidence based on? Bernard in his prime lost twice to Taylor. Not sure what precludes a possibility of him losing to GGG.[/quot

So was B-Hop in his prime when he lost his Middleweight title to Taylor 11 year's after winning it at the age of 40 stop exposing yourself

A year earlier, he had one of his two best MW wins -- DLH.

These GGG fans ride hard. Yes GGG is the best MW today among a very weak crop of fighters. He is a very good fighter, but his body of work doesn't fair well when comparing him to the greats of the past. He wants to consistently fight smaller guys, but yet gets a pass for it. He also seems to get a pass for fighting C level guys consistently and some how that pushes him past other fighters in other divisions fighting much tougher competition. If Daniel Jacobs and Eubank Jr. Are his defining fights currently at MW, the dude needs to move up and challenge himself, that's the way he will earn a name among the greats of the past. Not by calling guys out 2 divisions lower than him, when he can move up in weight as well. GGG IMO has had a relatively disappointing career so far, yes he has a nice KO streak going and a debatable amount of title defenses, but that means fornicate all to me when he's not fighting a listers or guys his size or bigger

Nate, could you please list all of the smaller fighters GGG has fought please

NateJR wrote:These GGG fans ride hard. Yes GGG is the best MW today among a very weak crop of fighters. He is a very good fighter, but his body of work doesn't fair well when comparing him to the greats of the past. He wants to consistently fight smaller guys, but yet gets a pass for it. He also seems to get a pass for fighting C level guys consistently and some how that pushes him past other fighters in other divisions fighting much tougher competition. If Daniel Jacobs and Eubank Jr. Are his defining fights currently at MW, the dude needs to move up and challenge himself, that's the way he will earn a name among the greats of the past. Not by calling guys out 2 divisions lower than him, when he can move up in weight as well. GGG IMO has had a relatively disappointing career so far, yes he has a nice KO streak going and a debatable amount of title defenses, but that means eff all to me when he's not fighting a listers or guys his size or bigger

Once again, a legend about fighting smaller guys doesn't check out, as none of Golovkin's last 9 opponents were smaller than him.

And who are those famous giants Hopkins fought before Tito ??? Bernard's resume was as unimressive before little Tito moved up.

Well, he's pretty much cleared out the division which is very weak in this era. The only thing is he just seems small to be jumping to 168. I feel like if he moved up and fought say ward, ward wouldn't have much trouble keeping him on the outside. Now hypothetical matchup like rjj. I don't see him beat I g a prime rjj, not sure there's many if any middleweight that could have. Who knows rjj, did leave himself open throwing flurries so ggg could catch him, but Jones was so damn fast.

Pureist wrote:Nate, could you please list all of the smaller fighters GGG has fought please

Where did I state he has fought smaller fighters? Instead he calls them out. Last I checked GGGs next fight is against a WW and again avoids moving up in weight.

boxing_rocks wrote:

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

What is such confidence based on? Bernard in his prime lost twice to Taylor. Not sure what precludes a possibility of him losing to GGG.[/quot

So was B-Hop in his prime when he lost his Middleweight title to Taylor 11 year's after winning it at the age of 40 stop exposing yourself

A year earlier, he had one of his two best MW wins -- DLH.

Ya got me there

NateJR wrote:

Pureist wrote:Nate, could you please list all of the smaller fighters GGG has fought please

Where did I state he has fought smaller fighters? Instead he calls them out. Last I checked GGGs next fight is against a WW and again avoids moving up in weight.

He didn't call out Brook at all. Brook called him out like 3 months ago, everyone thought he was kidding. Then Eubank backs out with big money on the table, Brook steps in, everyone getting multiples of their career best purse.

There's no avoiding, GGG makes MW with ease, is approaching a MW defense record of some kind (all by KO!), has one more belt to unify, and Canelo's scalp to take. That's the biggest fight in the sport. Still I expect he'll go up on a one off to fight a top 3 SMW like DeGale or Ramirez before any Canelo fight

sykessta wrote:Well, he's pretty much cleared out the division which is very weak in this era. The only thing is he just seems small to be jumping to 168. I feel like if he moved up and fought say ward, ward wouldn't have much trouble keeping him on the outside. Now hypothetical matchup like rjj. I don't see him beat I g a prime rjj, not sure there's many if any middleweight that could have. Who knows rjj, did leave himself open throwing flurries so ggg could catch him, but Jones was so damn fast.

Compared to other greats who moved up in weight, GGG isn't giving up too much size. If GGG is half as good as the D-riders on here seem to claim his is, his skills, power and all that other stuff they clamor about it shouldn't even be a issue. This dude is held to a ridiculously low standard it's honestly sickening the length people on here go to defend this guy for knocking out a bunch of no hopers with out once going outside of his comfort zone. That is all.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

NateJR wrote:

Pureist wrote:Nate, could you please list all of the smaller fighters GGG has fought please

Where did I state he has fought smaller fighters? Instead he calls them out. Last I checked GGGs next fight is against a WW and again avoids moving up in weight.

He didn't call out Brook at all. Brook called him out like 3 months ago, everyone thought he was kidding. Then Eubank backs out with big money on the table, Brook steps in, everyone getting multiples of their career best purse.

There's no avoiding, GGG makes MW with ease, is approaching a MW defense record of some kind (all by KO!), has one more belt to unify, and Canelo's scalp to take. That's the biggest fight in the sport. Still I expect he'll go up on a one off to fight a top 3 SMW like DeGale or Ramirez before any Canelo fight

Question: what was your opinion when Mayweather fought the #2 p4p fighter in Marquez (who was fighting 2 divisions lower than Floyd at the time) after a 2 year hiatus?

The part that gets me is people act like GGG doesn't have options. The fact is he just doesn't want to go outside of his comfort zone so instead of moving up in weight he's rather fight no hopers and any one smaller that will give him a decent payday. It's crazy to call this guy a all time great, period.

Noxy wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:Best middleweight since Hagler.

Better than Hopkins?

Golovkin would have had a hell of a fight on his hands against Bernard.

Aye, or Jonesy

Don't forget RJJ only had the 1 big win at the weight and that was against Hopkins.

Hopkins had a great reign at the weight and I'd put him just behind GGG. Obviously GGG has time to either get better or mess his legacy up. He still needs that career defining fight.

NateJR wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

NateJR wrote:
Where did I state he has fought smaller fighters? Instead he calls them out. Last I checked GGGs next fight is against a WW and again avoids moving up in weight.

He didn't call out Brook at all. Brook called him out like 3 months ago, everyone thought he was kidding. Then Eubank backs out with big money on the table, Brook steps in, everyone getting multiples of their career best purse.

There's no avoiding, GGG makes MW with ease, is approaching a MW defense record of some kind (all by KO!), has one more belt to unify, and Canelo's scalp to take. That's the biggest fight in the sport. Still I expect he'll go up on a one off to fight a top 3 SMW like DeGale or Ramirez before any Canelo fight

Question: what was your opinion when Mayweather fought the #2 p4p fighter in Marquez (who was fighting 2 divisions lower than Floyd at the time) after a 2 year hiatus?

The part that gets me is people act like GGG doesn't have options. The fact is he just doesn't want to go outside of his comfort zone so instead of moving up in weight he's rather fight no hopers and any one smaller that will give him a decent payday. It's crazy to call this guy a all time great, period.

Neither guy gets much credit for the win over the smaller guy. Difference is, Floyd brought all the money, while Brook's promoter is offering GGG far more than he can make anywhere else. But Marquez was a tune-up off "retirement" so whatever.

I don't think GGG has all these options, obviously not at his weight. Doubt even the SMW champs are itching to fight him. LHWs probably would.

NateJR wrote:

Pureist wrote:Nate, could you please list all of the smaller fighters GGG has fought please

Where did I state he has fought smaller fighters? Instead he calls them out. Last I checked GGGs next fight is against a WW and again avoids moving up in weight.

Read the last line of you post, Ko streak means nothing etc etc etc, then tell me who all these smaller fighters are, if he is not fighting guys his size or bigger that means YOUR saying he's fighting smaller guys

Pureist wrote:

NateJR wrote:

Pureist wrote:Nate, could you please list all of the smaller fighters GGG has fought please

Where did I state he has fought smaller fighters? Instead he calls them out. Last I checked GGGs next fight is against a WW and again avoids moving up in weight.

Read the last line of you post, Ko streak means nothing etc etc etc, then tell me who all these smaller fighters are, if he is not fighting guys his size or bigger that means YOUR saying he's fighting smaller guys

I never said he didn't fight guys his own size. He isn't fighting bigger men. Alvarez isn't bigger than him either. GGGs has clearly shown more interest in fighting smaller men than moving up in weight. Brook isn't smaller?

NateJR wrote:

Pureist wrote:

NateJR wrote:
Where did I state he has fought smaller fighters? Instead he calls them out. Last I checked GGGs next fight is against a WW and again avoids moving up in weight.

Read the last line of you post, Ko streak means nothing etc etc etc, then tell me who all these smaller fighters are, if he is not fighting guys his size or bigger that means YOUR saying he's fighting smaller guys

I never said he didn't fight guys his own size. He isn't fighting bigger men. Alvarez isn't bigger than him either. GGGs has clearly shown more interest in fighting smaller men than moving up in weight. Brook isn't smaller?

He hasn't fought Brook or Alvarez yet. His last NINE opponents were either his size or bigger (Murray and Rubio).

NateJR wrote: Compared to other greats who moved up in weight, GGG isn't giving up too much size.

Do you mean Hagler and Monzon ?

bullyboi86 wrote:GGG always crying about fighters avoiding him but he avoids Andre Ward.

FFS, how many times is this going to be thrashed out. How are you avoiding someone fighting 8 lbs above you, He offered to cut weight to face Floyd. Ward is now fighting at 175, so it's really rather a moot point.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

bullyboi86 wrote:GGG always crying about fighters avoiding him but he avoids Andre Ward.

FFS, how many times is this going to be thrashed out. How are you avoiding someone fighting 8 lbs above you, He offered to cut weight to face Floyd. Ward is now fighting at 175, so it's really rather a moot point.

And it is Ward who avoided GGG in real life versus minds of haters. In 2013, both were offered a fight by HBO, and GGG accepted, while Ward declined trying to fight bus drivers but then settling on Rodriguez.

i rate GGG very highly great fighter.

jezzamundo wrote:Yes, what you have posted is factually correct, but it's also somewhat misleading.

It's a pleasure to have a discussion with someone that debates honestly, challenges my actual words and refrains from resorting to insults.

In terms of this point though, irrefutable facts couldn’t care less about opinions, because they objectively represent the real world. They are what they are.

I suppose they’re open to interpretation, but I only quoted the basic facts. I did not use them to undermine Golovkin’s feats.

jezzamundo wrote:GGG finished his amateur career at 165lb, but that was with same-day weigh-ins.

And that wouldn't have stopped him gaining 5lbs or so by the time he entered the ring, like professional boxers used to do up until the late 1980’s.

jezzamundo wrote:He body hasn't naturally grown since turning pro at age 24, which is why he's still at middleweight. Had he turned pro as young as Mayweather, he likely would have started his career at light welter.

We know for certain that Golovkin would have been campaigning as a 165lb-er in the amateur ranks well before his 21st birthday. Floyd was still competing in his debut 130lb weight class at the same age.

jezzamundo wrote:I disagree that GGG has had a size advantage over many of his opponents. Yes, he has campaigned at middleweight for longer than many of them, but that just means he is more experienced at the weight, not that he is bigger.

By the 10th September, at least six of his world title fights were against relative 160lb novices. In terms of the other seven guys (from the 13 that were not native middleweights), for sure some of them may have grown to the same "size" as Golovkin, but others simply changed division after suffering defeats.

Golovkin has been fighting as a middleweight and rehydrating to around the 171lb-mark for the last fourteen years… and despite Abel Sanchez’s proclamations, he has flatly refused to engage in any non-middleweight bouts, nor has he competed in any catch-weight fights.

jezzamundo wrote:Curtis Stevens started his career at light heavy and has fought at cruiserweight - does that make him bigger than GGG?

Exceptions do not disprove general rules.

jezzamundo wrote:Gabe Rosado had just come up from 154lb... Was he really at a size disadvantage?

Gabriel Rosado felt he was "premature" in facing Golovkin, because he "wasn't a strong middleweight at the time" and had only just risen to the 160lb weight class, coupled with the lack of “experience” at taking punishment from bigger men. After all, it was his very first "real" fight in the middleweight division. You can verify this by watching him discuss the matter on YouTube.

jezzamundo wrote:Keep in mind that at age 34, GGG is very comfortable at middleweight, he comes to camp at around 171lb and is typically about the same on fight night. He's 5'10.5 with a 70 inch reach. He's not a big middleweight.

Golovkin is certainly not any smaller than any of the men he has faced, with the notable exception of Curtis Stevens.

Tom Loeffler has also recently distanced Team Golovkin’s (Abel Sanchez’s) claims that Gennady was a small middleweight that could easily compete at 154lbs. In fact, Loeffler claimed that they were only prepared to do this for the Mayweather Jr. bout, which they concede is unlikely.

Enlightened-One wrote: Exceptions do not disprove general rules.

Those are not exceptions. You keep ignoring the fact that the last 9 opponents of Golovkin were full blown middleweights with no history of fighting below MW in many years. That makes your "general rule" a blatant lie.

boxing_rocks wrote:You keep ignoring the fact that the last 9 opponents of Golovkin were full blown middleweights with no history of fighting below MW in many years. That makes your "general rule" a blatant lie.

We’ve already received confirmation from other forum members that my previous statements were factually correct.

You’ve resorted to using a straw man, by demanding that I comment on a stance that I’ve never held, because you cannot address any of my original claims.

You’ve repeatedly tried to undermine my credibility, by constantly accusing me of being a liar, when all I’ve done is quote objective easily-verifiable truths.

Why have you got this compulsion to “defend Golovkin at all costs” mentality? The irrefutable facts I’ve quoted aren’t particularly derogatory, but for some reason you’ve got your knickers in a twist over trivial “spilled milk”.

Enlightened-One wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:You keep ignoring the fact that the last 9 opponents of Golovkin were full blown middleweights with no history of fighting below MW in many years. That makes your "general rule" a blatant lie.

We’ve already received confirmation from other forum members that my previous statements were factually correct.

First of all, that was just one member. Second of all, he likely didn't read all your posting diarrhea, specifically the part of Golovkin fighting MW novices which remains a lie.

boxing_rocks wrote:First of all, that was just one member. Second of all, he likely didn't read all your posting diarrhea, specifically the part of Golovkin fighting MW novices which remains a lie.

Here’s what I actually stated, in terms of “middleweight novices”:

Enlightened-One wrote:Put it this way, by the 10th September, six of GGG’s world title victims would have been relative novices at 160lbs...

Here's the justification for this statement:
• Milton Nunez = Had only “officially” competed in two 160lb fights prior to facing Golovkin, with 16 of his opponents having never even won a single fight.
• Nilson Julio Tapia = Had spent the vast majority of his career as a light middleweight having sporadically competed in only a handful “technically” middleweight bouts against opponents that could not possibly be considered as legitimate 160lb-ers.
• Kassim Ouma = A former welterweight that had only competed in two middleweight bouts.
• Lajuan Simon = A former super-middleweight that had lost three of the five middleweight bouts he’d competed in, from (at that point) a 35 fight career. Had only managed to defeat one genuine 160lb-er prior to facing Golovkin.
• Dominic Wade = Spent his entire career campaigning as a 168lb-er, with the Golovkin bout being his debut at 160lbs.
• Kell Brook = A pro for 12 years, gained the IBF 147lb crown against the only universally recognised top-ten world class opponent he’s ever faced (Shawn Porter). Has competed in a few 154lb fights against journeymen, but is now making his middleweight debut against a man that he admits to being scared of and who also happens to consistently rehydrate to 171lbs+ for the last fourteen years.