Loeffler wants Froch for Golovkin after Brook

[gilgamesh]

True but Mayweather still got 600k ppv buys fighting Berto lol.

How Mayweather ever became a PPV attraction at all is beyond me. Casual fight fans are all about knockouts and action. Floyd rarely provides either, but he somehow became the biggest PPV star in the sports history

Beats the hell out of me how he pulled that sh*t off.

It's because of his dickhead persona (well i think that's him but you get my drift lol) that and the fact he was unbeaten.

Yeah I guess the best way to sell yourself as a fighter is to have a large portion of the population that wants to see you lose so bad they can taste it. I'll bet half the PPV buys of every Floyd PPV if not more were people tuning in hoping like hell he gets his head taken off.

[gilgamesh]

People say 'look GGG fought at 165 in the amateurs' (Ward ended his amateur career at 178), but that division spans all the way down to 152, so if GGG were to fight a division lower he would've been creeping toward welterweight. After over a decade as a pro and 35 fights, GGG has never been more than a pound above 160, and it seems very clear that MW is his best weight.

Given that he's not even big for 160, I think it's reasonable to call for Ward to meet him in the middle. Sure, maybe GGG was willing to fight guys like Froch and Ramirez at 168, but Ward is at another level, and I can understand why GGG's side believes that compromise is more important in this case. It doesn't mean that GGG thinks he'll lose to Ward anymore than it means that GGG is confident of winning, but cognizant of the challenge and therefore wanting balanced conditions. In the case of Canelo-GGG you don't have one guy moving up to face a bigger man, so I don't think Canelo has the same argument in his favor when he calls for a CW.

Incidentally, I thought Ward and Kovalev looked pretty much the same size, and Ward doesn't look appear to be a small LHW to me.

[gilgamesh]

I voted for 0 PPV buys in the poll by the way because I think there's virtually no chance Froch comes back to fight GGG. So 0 buys is the accurate number for a fight that ain't gonna happen.

[lefty]

People say 'look GGG fought at 165 in the amateurs' (Ward ended his amateur career at 178), but that division spans all the way down to 152, so if GGG were to fight a division lower he would've been creeping toward welterweight. After over a decade as a pro and 35 fights, GGG has never been more than a pound above 160, and it seems very clear that MW is his best weight.

Given that he's not even big for 160, I think it's reasonable to call for Ward to meet him in the middle. Sure, maybe GGG was willing to fight guys like Froch and Ramirez at 168, but Ward is at another level, and I can understand why GGG's side believes that compromise is more important in this case. It doesn't mean that GGG thinks he'll lose to Ward anymore than it means that GGG is confident of winning, but cognizant of the challenge and therefore wanting balanced conditions. In the case of Canelo-GGG you don't have one guy moving up to face a bigger man, so I don't think Canelo has the same argument in his favor when he calls for a CW.

Incidentally, I thought Ward and Kovalev looked pretty much the same size, and Ward doesn't look appear to be a small LHW to me.

it's still a duck though. You cant say well I can't fight Ward at 168, it has to be at 164 but then say well I can fight Froch and Ramirez at 168 even though the latter is an absolute fornicating giant who's pretty much a light heavyweight. The reason they want Ward at 164 is because Ward is too good. It's hypocritical to say to Canelo who has never weighed in (not fight night) at above 155 you have to fight me at 160 but then tell Ward he has to fight at 164.

Regarding Ward ending his amateur career at 178, that's true but he only did that to make way for somebody else on the team. So he fought 10 lbs above the weight he fought at for the majority of his pro career and still won a gold medal.

[gilgamesh]

People say 'look GGG fought at 165 in the amateurs' (Ward ended his amateur career at 178), but that division spans all the way down to 152, so if GGG were to fight a division lower he would've been creeping toward welterweight. After over a decade as a pro and 35 fights, GGG has never been more than a pound above 160, and it seems very clear that MW is his best weight.

Given that he's not even big for 160, I think it's reasonable to call for Ward to meet him in the middle. Sure, maybe GGG was willing to fight guys like Froch and Ramirez at 168, but Ward is at another level, and I can understand why GGG's side believes that compromise is more important in this case. It doesn't mean that GGG thinks he'll lose to Ward anymore than it means that GGG is confident of winning, but cognizant of the challenge and therefore wanting balanced conditions. In the case of Canelo-GGG you don't have one guy moving up to face a bigger man, so I don't think Canelo has the same argument in his favor when he calls for a CW.

Incidentally, I thought Ward and Kovalev looked pretty much the same size, and Ward doesn't look appear to be a small LHW to me.

it's still a duck though. You cant say well I can't fight Ward at 168, it has to be at 164 but then say well I can fight Froch and Ramirez at 168 even though the latter is an absolute effing giant who's pretty much a light heavyweight. The reason they want Ward at 164 is because Ward is too good. It's hypocritical to say to Canelo who has never weighed in (not fight night) at above 155 you have to fight me at 160 but then tell Ward he has to fight at 164.

Regarding Ward ending his amateur career at 178, that's true but he only did that to make way for somebody else on the team. So he fought 10 lbs above the weight he fought at for the majority of his pro career and still won a gold medal.

It's not a duck because the fight was never seriously discussed or negotiated. It was just a fight that was talked about briefly by fans, and people keep on harping on it like it actually matters. I'm glad it never happened personally. If I never saw Ward fight again I'd be just fine with that. Even the fight with Kovalev is meh to me because I know Ward will do all he can to stink the joint out. I just hope Kovalev blasts his ass outta there.

[samwbr]

Froch wouldn't come back headings towards his 40th birthday after nearly 3 years out of the ring to face a dangerous active Golovkin. He's got nothing to prove and has got plenty of cash.

[Butterbean]

lets not hope froch gets any ideas here. he would get hurt bad, due to his chin and caveman stubbornness.
in the rearview mirror, im glad my man kessler didnt square off with golovkin. kessler might have taken huge amount of damage.

[Oiky]

This isn't going to happen

[Badhusker]

I remember an interview where Froch said GGG hit like a mule when they sparred at some point. He would be foolish to come back at his age. I get tired of active boxers calling out retired boxers. Its about money.
As far as catchweights go, I hate them. There are more than enough weight classes now they are not needed. If you have to drain (weaken) one guy to even the playing field, it makes it not a legitmate fight imo, and tarnishes a win. I wish all orgs would not allow any catchweights, period. Fight at the weight limit or don't fight.

[greg]

...Froch is what, almost 40? Loeffler und Co. should leave him alone...

[samwbr]

I remember an interview where Froch said GGG hit like a mule when they sparred at some point. He would be foolish to come back at his age. I get tired of active boxers calling out retired boxers. Its about money.
As far as catchweights go, I hate them. There are more than enough weight classes now they are not needed. If you have to drain (weaken) one guy to even the playing field, it makes it not a legitmate fight imo, and tarnishes a win. I wish all orgs would not allow any catchweights, period. Fight at the weight limit or don't fight.

I.don't think they ever sparred did they?

[Enlightened-One]

I once proposed the notion claiming that GGG wasn’t a “small” middleweight, which contradicted the claims made by Team Golovkin, so to support my claim:

• I posted stats from reliable sources (such as height, rehydration weight, weight divisions competed at etc.) – GGG fans claimed that facts and figures were an unreliable barometer of size.

• I posted photos of Golovkin standing next to his middleweight peers – GGG fans claimed that photos can be misleading, because different camera angles etc. can misrepresent size comparison.

• I posted videos of Golovkin standing next to multiple middleweights – GGG fans claimed that one of the fighters looked small because he had poor posture and the other so-called “big” middleweight that they themselves previously proclaimed as "huge", probably wasn’t that “big” to begin with and that his team must have lied about his height etc.

• No amount of evidence, no matter how reliable, could persuade GGG fans that Golovkin wasn’t a “small” middleweight.

I also proposed a separate notion about Golovkin demanding a 164lb catch-weight stipulation to face Ward, which was instantly rejected and ridiculed. GGG fans flatly-refused to concede this point and seemed horrendously insulted by my claims.

So when I posted multiple videos and interview transcripts of Golovkin, Sanchez and Loeffler stating their 164lb catch-weight demands… the same set of GGG fans are now defending GGG’s 164lb catch-weight stipulation.

So my question is this… if the idea of GGG demanding a “164lb catch-weight stipulation” was previously deemed utterly horrendous, why are the same set of people now defending this stance?

[boxing_rocks]

I remember an interview where Froch said GGG hit like a mule when they sparred at some point. He would be foolish to come back at his age. I get tired of active boxers calling out retired boxers. Its about money.
As far as catchweights go, I hate them. There are more than enough weight classes now they are not needed. If you have to drain (weaken) one guy to even the playing field, it makes it not a legitmate fight imo, and tarnishes a win. I wish all orgs would not allow any catchweights, period. Fight at the weight limit or don't fight.

I.don't think they ever sparred did they?

No, they haven't.

[Badhusker]

Maybe not, I thought he said it like he had experienced it at some point. Here is the quote from Froch. “Just swerve Golovkin like the plague. He punches like a mule. I don’t need to be in with him. Dangerous fight.”

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2014/07/fro ... -golovkin/

[Enlightened-One]

Maybe not, I thought he said it like he had experienced it at some point. Here is the quote from Froch. “Just swerve Golovkin like the plague. He punches like a mule. I don’t need to be in with him. Dangerous fight.”

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2014/07/fro ... -golovkin/

Watch the video of this interview, which was also attended by George Groves, as this quote was said in a "tongue-in-cheek" manner.

[lefty]

I remember an interview where Froch said GGG hit like a mule when they sparred at some point. He would be foolish to come back at his age. I get tired of active boxers calling out retired boxers. Its about money.
As far as catchweights go, I hate them. There are more than enough weight classes now they are not needed. If you have to drain (weaken) one guy to even the playing field, it makes it not a legitmate fight imo, and tarnishes a win. I wish all orgs would not allow any catchweights, period. Fight at the weight limit or don't fight.

I'm pretty sure Froch and GGG have never sparred.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Just like Andre ward never once looked seriously at a ggg fight.

[crusader]

People say 'look GGG fought at 165 in the amateurs' (Ward ended his amateur career at 178), but that division spans all the way down to 152, so if GGG were to fight a division lower he would've been creeping toward welterweight. After over a decade as a pro and 35 fights, GGG has never been more than a pound above 160, and it seems very clear that MW is his best weight.

Given that he's not even big for 160, I think it's reasonable to call for Ward to meet him in the middle. Sure, maybe GGG was willing to fight guys like Froch and Ramirez at 168, but Ward is at another level, and I can understand why GGG's side believes that compromise is more important in this case. It doesn't mean that GGG thinks he'll lose to Ward anymore than it means that GGG is confident of winning, but cognizant of the challenge and therefore wanting balanced conditions. In the case of Canelo-GGG you don't have one guy moving up to face a bigger man, so I don't think Canelo has the same argument in his favor when he calls for a CW.

Incidentally, I thought Ward and Kovalev looked pretty much the same size, and Ward doesn't look appear to be a small LHW to me.

it's still a duck though. You cant say well I can't fight Ward at 168, it has to be at 164 but then say well I can fight Froch and Ramirez at 168 even though the latter is an absolute effing giant who's pretty much a light heavyweight. The reason they want Ward at 164 is because Ward is too good. It's hypocritical to say to Canelo who has never weighed in (not fight night) at above 155 you have to fight me at 160 but then tell Ward he has to fight at 164.

Regarding Ward ending his amateur career at 178, that's true but he only did that to make way for somebody else on the team. So he fought 10 lbs above the weight he fought at for the majority of his pro career and still won a gold medal.

First, GGG has only had two bouts above MW and has never weighed above 161 (both of those were against weak opponents early in his career), so I find it a bit odd to say that he's ducking someone in a division he's never campaigned in. It would be a much different story if GGG won a lineal title at 168, stuck around to defend the title, but then dropped it upon being ordered to fight Ward.

Second, I don't believe your logic is on point, because wanting balanced conditions doesn't equate to ducking. As I said, GGG may well believe that he can beat Ward, but Ward is obviously a great fighter on another level to Froch/Ramirez, and considering the type of disadvantages GGG would be facing if he moved all the way up to 168 I think it's a fair compromise to meet in the middle. How is calling for that any more of a duck move than Ward being unwilling to budge and requiring that the bout is fought at a weight that benefits him but not GGG?

By the way, 178 in the amateurs goes down to anything above 165, so the weight Ward has mainly fought at as a pro would be included in that.

[Enlightened-One]

Ward only weighed between 155lbs and 165lbs when he competed at light heavyweight in the amateurs (and he facially and physically looked much smaller than he does today), to simply avoid the potential of facing his cousin (who competed at middleweight as an amateur).

This isn't a secret... it's common knowledge.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

If he does GGG should fire him

[jezzamundo]

I once proposed the notion claiming that GGG wasn’t a “small” middleweight, which contradicted the claims made by Team Golovkin, so to support my claim:

• I posted stats from reliable sources (such as height, rehydration weight, weight divisions competed at etc.) – GGG fans claimed that facts and figures were an unreliable barometer of size.

• I posted photos of Golovkin standing next to his middleweight peers – GGG fans claimed that photos can be misleading, because different camera angles etc. can misrepresent size comparison.

• I posted videos of Golovkin standing next to multiple middleweights – GGG fans claimed that one of the fighters looked small because he had poor posture and the other so-called “big” middleweight that they themselves previously proclaimed as "huge", probably wasn’t that “big” to begin with and that his team must have lied about his height etc.

• No amount of evidence, no matter how reliable, could persuade GGG fans that Golovkin wasn’t a “small” middleweight.

I also proposed a separate notion about Golovkin demanding a 164lb catch-weight stipulation to face Ward, which was instantly rejected and ridiculed. GGG fans flatly-refused to concede this point and seemed horrendously insulted by my claims.

So when I posted multiple videos and interview transcripts of Golovkin, Sanchez and Loeffler stating their 164lb catch-weight demands… the same set of GGG fans are now defending GGG’s 164lb catch-weight stipulation.

So my question is this… if the idea of GGG demanding a “164lb catch-weight stipulation” was previously deemed utterly horrendous, why are the same set of people now defending this stance?

I agree that GGG isn't a small middleweight - he's a pretty average-sized middleweight who makes weight more easily than most at the top level. I think the 164lb offer to Ward was a reasonable one, but it was pretty clear that GGG and his team didn't want to fight Ward at that stage unless they had some kind of advantage.

[Badhusker]

GGG is a good sized middleweight that keeps himself in the gym and in shape, so he doesn't have to cut huge amounts of weight. Floyd did basically the same thing....being disciplined about managing his weight. It can be misleading to say he is a small middleweight just because of the weight he has to lose to make the 160.

[lefty]

People say 'look GGG fought at 165 in the amateurs' (Ward ended his amateur career at 178), but that division spans all the way down to 152, so if GGG were to fight a division lower he would've been creeping toward welterweight. After over a decade as a pro and 35 fights, GGG has never been more than a pound above 160, and it seems very clear that MW is his best weight.

Given that he's not even big for 160, I think it's reasonable to call for Ward to meet him in the middle. Sure, maybe GGG was willing to fight guys like Froch and Ramirez at 168, but Ward is at another level, and I can understand why GGG's side believes that compromise is more important in this case. It doesn't mean that GGG thinks he'll lose to Ward anymore than it means that GGG is confident of winning, but cognizant of the challenge and therefore wanting balanced conditions. In the case of Canelo-GGG you don't have one guy moving up to face a bigger man, so I don't think Canelo has the same argument in his favor when he calls for a CW.

Incidentally, I thought Ward and Kovalev looked pretty much the same size, and Ward doesn't look appear to be a small LHW to me.

it's still a duck though. You cant say well I can't fight Ward at 168, it has to be at 164 but then say well I can fight Froch and Ramirez at 168 even though the latter is an absolute effing giant who's pretty much a light heavyweight. The reason they want Ward at 164 is because Ward is too good. It's hypocritical to say to Canelo who has never weighed in (not fight night) at above 155 you have to fight me at 160 but then tell Ward he has to fight at 164.

Regarding Ward ending his amateur career at 178, that's true but he only did that to make way for somebody else on the team. So he fought 10 lbs above the weight he fought at for the majority of his pro career and still won a gold medal.

First, GGG has only had two bouts above MW and has never weighed above 161 (both of those were against weak opponents early in his career), so I find it a bit odd to say that he's ducking someone in a division he's never campaigned in. It would be a much different story if GGG won a lineal title at 168, stuck around to defend the title, but then dropped it upon being ordered to fight Ward.

Second, I don't believe your logic is on point, because wanting balanced conditions doesn't equate to ducking. As I said, GGG may well believe that he can beat Ward, but Ward is obviously a great fighter on another level to Froch/Ramirez, and considering the type of disadvantages GGG would be facing if he moved all the way up to 168 I think it's a fair compromise to meet in the middle. How is calling for that any more of a duck move than Ward being unwilling to budge and requiring that the bout is fought at a weight that benefits him but not GGG?

By the way, 178 in the amateurs goes down to anything above 165, so the weight Ward has mainly fought at as a pro would be included in that.

He's not fought above 161 in the pro's although he has as an amateur. I'm saying the 164 catchweight stipulation is a duck in relation to him being willing to fight Froch and Ramirez at 168 when the latter in particular is enormous for the weight. The only reason his team (not saying it's him necessarily) were putting that stipulation out there is because they didn't fancy their chances and they wanted Ward to enter the ring weight drained.

Regarding Ward's amateur career weight you've actually just bolstered my argument. So Ward could have been weighing it at 165 or the late 160's and was beating guys who were undoubtedly atleast in the 170's but yet Golovkin isn't or wasn't good enough to beat Ward at 168?

Also do you think it would have been deemed acceptable if Ward would have said he wanted to fight Kovalev at 171 1/2 lbs? There would have been an uproar and people (Golovkin fans in all likelihood actually) calling him a ducker and a coward and so on if he would have requested that catchweight. You know I'm not wrong on that either.

Also why was it deemed unacceptable for Canelo to request a catchweight to fight Golovkin? I'm talking about after he gave up the belt. I know the argument will be well he rehydrates to such and such weight and that's true but he still hasn't weighed in above 155 so it shouldn't be unreasonable for Golovkin to meet him in the middle considering they wanted Ward to do the same thing.

[boxing_rocks]

The 164 "offer" has never happened. Members of GGG Team were just saying that if Ward wants 50% of the purse, then there should be 50% approach in terms of weight. There was no real discussion of that fight, as Ward has never been serious about it and timing wasn't right for GGG when the 164 number was mentioned.

[crusader]

it's still a duck though. You cant say well I can't fight Ward at 168, it has to be at 164 but then say well I can fight Froch and Ramirez at 168 even though the latter is an absolute effing giant who's pretty much a light heavyweight. The reason they want Ward at 164 is because Ward is too good. It's hypocritical to say to Canelo who has never weighed in (not fight night) at above 155 you have to fight me at 160 but then tell Ward he has to fight at 164.

Regarding Ward ending his amateur career at 178, that's true but he only did that to make way for somebody else on the team. So he fought 10 lbs above the weight he fought at for the majority of his pro career and still won a gold medal.

First, GGG has only had two bouts above MW and has never weighed above 161 (both of those were against weak opponents early in his career), so I find it a bit odd to say that he's ducking someone in a division he's never campaigned in. It would be a much different story if GGG won a lineal title at 168, stuck around to defend the title, but then dropped it upon being ordered to fight Ward.

Second, I don't believe your logic is on point, because wanting balanced conditions doesn't equate to ducking. As I said, GGG may well believe that he can beat Ward, but Ward is obviously a great fighter on another level to Froch/Ramirez, and considering the type of disadvantages GGG would be facing if he moved all the way up to 168 I think it's a fair compromise to meet in the middle. How is calling for that any more of a duck move than Ward being unwilling to budge and requiring that the bout is fought at a weight that benefits him but not GGG?

By the way, 178 in the amateurs goes down to anything above 165, so the weight Ward has mainly fought at as a pro would be included in that.

He's not fought above 161 in the pro's although he has as an amateur. I'm saying the 164 catchweight stipulation is a duck in relation to him being willing to fight Froch and Ramirez at 168 when the latter in particular is enormous for the weight. The only reason his team (not saying it's him necessarily) were putting that stipulation out there is because they didn't fancy their chances and they wanted Ward to enter the ring weight drained.

Regarding Ward's amateur career weight you've actually just bolstered my argument. So Ward could have been weighing it at 165 or the late 160's and was beating guys who were undoubtedly atleast in the 170's but yet Golovkin isn't or wasn't good enough to beat Ward at 168?

Also do you think it would have been deemed acceptable if Ward would have said he wanted to fight Kovalev at 171 1/2 lbs? There would have been an uproar and people (Golovkin fans in all likelihood actually) calling him a ducker and a coward and so on if he would have requested that catchweight. You know I'm not wrong on that either.

165 in the amateurs = 165-152+

Do we know what GGG specifically tended to weigh when he boxed at 165? I know that in 2002, as a 20 year old, he was still having bouts in the 152-141+ division (as a 20 year old amateur Ward fought at 178), so I wouldn't think that GGG was near the upper extreme of 165. I'm not sure how much amateur weights matter anyway (you brought them up), as we can look at pro weights and see that GGG's only been above 160 twice and never strayed more than a pound above that; it's clear that he's not particulalry big for the division, and that Ward's weights and dimensions are much more in line with a natural 168 pound fighter. I think it's also obvious that neither Ward nor GGG have artificially deflated official fight weights due to Canelo-esque draining, so I don't believe it's a case of a CW being called for when the fighters are in reality pretty much the same size.

I'm not really sure how I've bolstered your argument. You don't know how much Ward's amateur opponents in the 178 class weighed, you don't know exactly how much he weighed, he was still heavier than GGG at the same age (at 20 GGG was the 152 pound Asian champ ), and if he really isn't that much bigger than GGG how is it a stretch for him to cut a few more pounds to reach 164? Why is an unwillingness to budge from 168 to fight a smaller man who only campaigns at MW not a duck move?

Ward has moved up to campaign at 175, and if he's going to challenge Kovalev for the latter's titles I think the full limit should be used. If GGG were to announce that he was fighting full-time as a SMW, had some bouts there at the full-limit, then demanded that a dangerous title holder meet him at a catchweight of 164 for a title fight, I think it would be different. However, what we're actually looking at is a fighter who has stuck to fighting at 160, declaring that he wants to clean out the division and capture all the belts in the process. The fact that he's accused of ducking someone from a division he's never seriously fought at is laughable to me, as are the suggestions that him calling to meet Ward in the middle represents a 'gay' duck move, but Ward being unwilling to budge, when supposedly he isn't even that big of a SMW, doesn't.

And of course, we are discussing this as if 164 was actually put out there by GGG's team as the only option, without qualification.