BoxRec

psychod1986 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:2014 was a bad year for Garcia.
2016 is turning out to be

If Berto was Mexican, he woulda been almost universally loved.
But he's another one of those guys who is hated because he was too hyped.
Even though he has given boxing fans straight up wars and great fights.
I've always asked why isn't he well regarded like Gatti, Corrales, Angulo and other war fighters?

Whatever, Garcia needed a better opponent than this.

Berto's definitely shown a lot of heart and provided some great fights, but I think the reason he's not mentioned in the same breath as Corrales and Gatti is because Corrales and Gatti actually came back in fights they were losing and won. Berto's only ever done that one time to my recollection, and it was against Josesito Lopez, and that was a questionable stoppage IMO.

Berto is regarded higher than Angulo is I'm sure. I don't see how he couldn't be.

I agree berto never came back in any fights he was losing in,gatti always gave plenty effort in ever fight he was losing.

Gatti was a very exciting fighter, his effort against Floyd was no better than I assume Berto's was(I didn't watch it), Arturo was incapable of competing at the highest level.

MachoTime wrote: What fights is Berto remembered for that would make you think he was better than Arturo Gatti?

Berto's peak he was near to 'super-star' level. People forget. In that sense he was a greater entity than Arturo Gatti whom, once his career moved past Angel Manfreddy a.s.f. became mundane and he is remembered as a "famous/but gutsy" loser. Right or wrong?
Plus, certainly Berto does better vs FMJr. (Way different outcome!)

[Gilgamesh, "quote"]
You mean you think it's an even matchup? Because it's absolutely not. Garcia is gonna win easy as hell.
Well. I HOPE it is! DG/ Berto in my book their heights no difference. Berto can't be any shot fighter now. In my book I haven't liked DG. Recent, see one good YouTube w/him!
Berto's star is past yes. Garcia not really a big star in my book. Sure..I know that saying such it's selective.
I think Garcia wins but Berto does well for himself.
It's probably just me but, Berto's height I have it more intense than Garcia now!

The problem is that we don't get enough of the top fights anymore. Whether it's too many belts or promoter BS or lack of activity, that's why we get angry. If they happened more often, we'd have no problem with fights like Garcia-Berto.
30 years ago, 3/4ths of title fights were at about this level and we enjoyed them even if they were slight mismatches. But that's because guys were fighting 3 or 4 times every year and at least one was against a top level a guy.

Boxing is simply not a good viewing product right now...Honestly, this fight would even be fine if it weren't typical of what we see a vast majority of the time.

jas80s wrote:Boxing is simply not a good viewing product right now...Honestly, this fight would even be fine if it weren't typical of what we see a vast majority of the time.

Completely agree.

ldlamb wrote:The problem is that we don't get enough of the top fights anymore. Whether it's too many belts or promoter BS or lack of activity, that's why we get angry. If they happened more often, we'd have no problem with fights like Garcia-Berto.
30 years ago, 3/4ths of title fights were at about this level and we enjoyed them even if they were slight mismatches. But that's because guys were fighting 3 or 4 times every year and at least one was against a top level a guy.

True.

Garcia probably won't fight again this year and next year he'll, more than likely, defend his title against another mandatory. Meanwhile Thurman and Spence are left waiting for a shot at the belt and unifying the division.

I would rather the Champions of each division being mandated to fight at least one other Champion each year. A mandatory or a Champion.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:2014 was a bad year for Garcia.
2016 is turning out to be

If Berto was Mexican, he woulda been almost universally loved.
But he's another one of those guys who is hated because he was too hyped.
Even though he has given boxing fans straight up wars and great fights.
I've always asked why isn't he well regarded like Gatti, Corrales, Angulo and other war fighters?

Whatever, Garcia needed a better opponent than this.

There have been times when the best 5 weltwerights were roughly Mayweather, Pacquiao, Cotto, Mosley, and Clottey. Except at that period in time, I had many arguments in which other people tried to claim that Berto was better than Clottey, Cotto, and possibly Mosley as well. This was despite the fact that he robbed Luis Collazo and his best win was like... Freddie Hernandez. Then when Mayweather decided to fight Berto, some people claimed that it was a pretty solid match-up, and not worthy of much scrutiny.

I have a moderate amount of lingering resentment towards Andre Berto due to years and years of him being overrated for no clear reason. Berto's fans were just clueless. It was kind of like how I spent years arguing with Bute fanatics who claimed that Bute was the #1 SMW, even though all evidence pointed to the contrary.

Lackeos wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:2014 was a bad year for Garcia.
2016 is turning out to be

If Berto was Mexican, he woulda been almost universally loved.
But he's another one of those guys who is hated because he was too hyped.
Even though he has given boxing fans straight up wars and great fights.
I've always asked why isn't he well regarded like Gatti, Corrales, Angulo and other war fighters?

Whatever, Garcia needed a better opponent than this.

There have been times when the best 5 weltwerights were roughly Mayweather, Pacquiao, Cotto, Mosley, and Clottey. Except at that period in time, I had many arguments in which other people tried to claim that Berto was better than Clottey, Cotto, and possibly Mosley as well. This was despite the fact that he robbed Luis Collazo and his best win was like... Freddie Hernandez. Then when Mayweather decided to fight Berto, some people claimed that it was a pretty solid match-up, and not worthy of much scrutiny.

I have a moderate amount of lingering resentment towards Andre Berto due to years and years of him being overrated for no clear reason. Berto's fans were just clueless. It was kind of like how I spent years arguing with Bute fanatics who claimed that Bute was the #1 SMW, even though all evidence pointed to the contrary.

Because you have never gotten too hyped about a fighter too early

No one was saying "next Floyd". People saw the physical tools and thought Floyd opponent.

I think Berto would have been a dangerous opponent in 2010 for Mosley, Clottey or Cotto.
I think Berto's workrate, hand speed and flashier punches would have earned him a close SD against all 3.
Or all 3 could have made the fight look like Berto/Ortiz or Berto/Guerrero.
Regardless, I think he would have been in the fight.

During that era, there was Floyd and Manny and the rest. Berto was among the best of the rest.
And FTR, people resented him BEFORE he was too overrated.

Shane would have lit him up.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Shane would have lit him up.

Indeed.

Not the really the fight everyone wants to see

Garcia wins

Yeah pretty much every division has a majority of average and low caliber fighters.I guess that's why top level elite fighters,have problems getting competitive fights,naw days.In order for elite fighters to fight other elite fighters,they will want a certain amount of money to fight.

Andre Berto then/Crawford now...pretty close. What I see.

allInmoderationAIM wrote:Andre Berto then/Crawford now...pretty close. What I see.

You need to get your eyes checked. Crawford is WAY more talented than Berto ever thought about being

gilgamesh wrote:

allInmoderationAIM wrote:Andre Berto then/Crawford now...pretty close. What I see.

You need to get your eyes checked. Crawford is WAY more talented than Berto ever thought about being

Is he? Idk. Stature Berto at his height and Crawford now...man..they look like exact replicas.
So..you are saying Crawford still raising?
I seen the man talk about it at the podium. I don't yet see anything I would dislike about the man.
Crawford isn't in MY Top-5 mega list quite yet.. Ggg Alvarev Ward Manny Kovalev (no order to list).
Yeah. A look into the boxing time tunnel and that's what we have!

allInmoderationAIM wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

allInmoderationAIM wrote:Andre Berto then/Crawford now...pretty close. What I see.

You need to get your eyes checked. Crawford is WAY more talented than Berto ever thought about being

Is he? Idk. Stature Berto at his height and Crawford now...man..they look like exact replicas.
So..you are saying Crawford still raising?
I seen the man talk about it at the podium. I don't yet see anything I would dislike about the man.
Crawford isn't in MY Top-5 mega list quite yet.. Ggg Alvarev Ward Manny Kovalev (no order to list).
Yeah. A look into the boxing time tunnel and that's what we have!

I'm saying the current Crawford could fight Berto at his very best, and he'd damn near shut out Berto. He's on a higher skill level than Berto ever was right now.

gilgamesh wrote:

allInmoderationAIM wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
You need to get your eyes checked. Crawford is WAY more talented than Berto ever thought about being

Is he? Idk. Stature Berto at his height and Crawford now...man..they look like exact replicas.
So..you are saying Crawford still raising?
I seen the man talk about it at the podium. I don't yet see anything I would dislike about the man.
Crawford isn't in MY Top-5 mega list quite yet.. Ggg Alvarev Ward Manny Kovalev (no order to list).
Yeah. A look into the boxing time tunnel and that's what we have!

I'm saying the current Crawford could fight Berto at his very best, and he'd damn near shut out Berto. He's on a higher skill level than Berto ever was right now.

Could be. Hard to really know that's like comparing Louis - Marciano one up at their prime minus the explosives.
The modern fighter usually it does seem they are supreme.

allInmoderationAIM wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

allInmoderationAIM wrote: Is he? Idk. Stature Berto at his height and Crawford now...man..they look like exact replicas.
So..you are saying Crawford still raising?
I seen the man talk about it at the podium. I don't yet see anything I would dislike about the man.
Crawford isn't in MY Top-5 mega list quite yet.. Ggg Alvarev Ward Manny Kovalev (no order to list).
Yeah. A look into the boxing time tunnel and that's what we have!

I'm saying the current Crawford could fight Berto at his very best, and he'd damn near shut out Berto. He's on a higher skill level than Berto ever was right now.

Could be. Hard to really know that's like comparing Louis - Marciano one up at their prime minus the explosives.
The modern fighter usually it does seem they are supreme.

It's not like that. Berto has never been impressive. Crawford impressed me more the first time I ever saw him fight than Berto has his entire career. Crawford's operating on a higher skill level than Berto has ever reached.

Garcia vs Berto is not a great matchup, let's see Berto vs Porter, my god that would be fun!

This fight blows. Put him in there with someone like Thurman, diaz, Vasquez, or porter

Remember Crawford is owned by Arum, and we all know how much he likes in-house fights.

pugilisticprofessor wrote:Garcia vs Berto is not a great matchup, let's see Berto vs Porter, my god that would be fun!

Berto would lose almost every round against Porter too

It's at the point that boxers like Danny Garcia and Keith Thurman who are highly ranked have a pick em fight.
I know Garcia has had a couple but it's some time ago,Thurman has been on the rise and reached a point where he can go no further unless he has a pick em fight.

Garcia won't be going any further without fighting top guys either. Garcia has been going backwards the last 3 years of his career. 2011 thru 2013 he was stepping up the ladder more and more. The last 3 years he's climbed almost all the way back down that ladder, and now has to climb again to get back to where he was in 2013.

Garcia has beaten a couple of good fighters and remains unbeaten, he's got some credibility that's a close call.