BoxRec

To propose the notions of conspiracy and corruption were involved in Canelo receiving preferential treatment in his bouts against Austin, Trout and Mayweather is utterly absurd.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:If you remove Trout, Lara, Mayweather and Cotto Canelo's entire resume falls apart.

Using your logic and assuming that Golovkin has never faced opposition as good as "Trout, Lara, Mayweather and Cotto", does that mean GGG's resume is worthless and decimated?

Except Mayweather and arguably Lara and Trout defeated Canelo. Cotto is not a top JMW.

Also, I'm trying to say that these are the only legitimate names on a 47-1-1 record.
Really think about that. This guy has 49 fights, is the "face" of boxing, and only has 4 legitimate fights.

And in those fights, he got completely embarrassed in one, more than most of Floyd's recent opponents.
Even if you gave him Lara and Trout, they were very close and not impressive wins a p4p face of the sport usually gets.
See the wins of Ward, GGG, Kovalev, Gonzalez, Crawford, and Rigondeaux as example.
I think he clearly beat Cotto, like 9-3. No comment on that.
But like I said, give Lara, Andrade and Charlo a crack at Cotto.
Then let's judge how impressive the win was.

There's no question about GGG.
And when GGG faced the top fighters in his division ...
Lemiux (TKO 8), Murray (TKO 11), Geale (TKO 3), Mackin (KO 3) ...

... not some, by the skin of your ass, boring, but somehow star-making performance.

... and Golden Boy has him as the middleweight champion in the Ring rankings

Enlightened-One wrote:To propose the notions of conspiracy and corruption were involved in Canelo receiving preferential treatment in his bouts against Austin, Trout and Mayweather is utterly absurd.

On the contrary, if you look at the cards, to deny corruption of at least one judge in each of these fights is utterly absurd.

Enlightened-One wrote:To propose the notions of conspiracy and corruption were involved in Canelo receiving preferential treatment in his bouts against Austin, Trout and Mayweather is utterly absurd.

In 49 Canelo fights, only Floyd (1), Lara (2), Trout (3) and Cotto (C ) were ranked in the top #10 of the division.
Every other opponent wasn't even close ... and he was basically 1-1-2 in these fights.

In 35 GGG fight, he's already faced Proksa (10), Macklin (6), Stevens (10), Geale (3), Rubio (8), Murray (6), Lemiuex (4)
In these fights GGG is a convincing 7-0.

Canelo hasn't even faced a smaller opponent as dangerous as Brook.
Although, the Ring rated Amir Khan #3 at 147 for 2014 and 2015.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:To propose the notions of conspiracy and corruption were involved in Canelo receiving preferential treatment in his bouts against Austin, Trout and Mayweather is utterly absurd.

On the contrary, if you look at the cards, to deny corruption of at least one judge in each of these fights is utterly absurd.

Lara
Martinez 117-111

Floyd
Ross 114-114

Trout
Christodoulou 118-109
10 rounds?

gilgamesh wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:If Canelo was fighting one of the top JMWs, then that pound could've made a difference, but against Smith, it won't matter.

1 pound never made a difference in any fight...ever

A 160lb man, on average, will produce a turd thats 1lb in weight. In 2006 Andrew "six heads" Lewis quit mid way through the 7th round of a fight as "six heads" became 7 when he felt a turtles head start appearing . He left the ring stating hed rather lose the fight than shit his pants in front of everyone.

On that occasion, 1lb made a difference in the fight

On topic, no, going from 155 to 154 wont turn Canelo into a shadow of his former self, unable to muster the energy for mid afternoon wank let alone 12 rounds of boxing.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:To propose the notions of conspiracy and corruption were involved in Canelo receiving preferential treatment in his bouts against Austin, Trout and Mayweather is utterly absurd.

On the contrary, if you look at the cards, to deny corruption of at least one judge in each of these fights is utterly absurd.

Lara
Martinez 117-111

Floyd
Ross 114-114

Trout
Christodoulou 118-109
10 rounds?

117-111 in the Lara fight sounds about right to me. Lara didn't do enough in that fight to win rounds, and was outworked in almost every round. Canelo's body shots were some of the only meaningful shots in the fight. Lara would land some straight lefts here and there, but was too damn defensive minded to take many clear rounds.

gilgamesh wrote:117-111 in the Lara fight sounds about right to me. Lara didn't do enough in that fight to win rounds, and was outworked in almost every round. Canelo's body shots were some of the only meaningful shots in the fight. Lara would land some straight lefts here and there, but was too damn defensive minded to take many clear rounds.

That's the reason why I scored it 7-5 Lara.
I could agree with a draw too.

boxing_rocks wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:To propose the notions of conspiracy and corruption were involved in Canelo receiving preferential treatment in his bouts against Austin, Trout and Mayweather is utterly absurd.

On the contrary, if you look at the cards, to deny corruption of at least one judge in each of these fights is utterly absurd.

Sometimes "poor judging" is simply due to human error or a lack of knowledge.

A couple of questionable scorecards doesn't warrant the automatic assumption of a conspiracy theory or corruption.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:117-111 in the Lara fight sounds about right to me. Lara didn't do enough in that fight to win rounds, and was outworked in almost every round. Canelo's body shots were some of the only meaningful shots in the fight. Lara would land some straight lefts here and there, but was too damn defensive minded to take many clear rounds.

That's the reason why I scored it 7-5 Lara.
I could agree with a draw too.

I thought Lara edged it. No way in hell he lost 9 rounds. Shitty fight.

Wales wrote:A 160lb man, on average, will produce a turd thats 1lb in weight. In 2006 Andrew "six heads" Lewis quit mid way through the 7th round of a fight as "six heads" became 7 when he felt a turtles head start appearing . He left the ring stating hed rather lose the fight than poo his pants in front of everyone.

On that occasion, 1lb made a difference in the fight

On topic, no, going from 155 to 154 wont turn Canelo into a shadow of his former self, unable to muster the energy for mid afternoon wank let alone 12 rounds of boxing.

That made me chuckle!

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Floyd, Manny, Hopkins and Jones Jr. would be great even if every judge was told to take 4 rounds from them.
That's why they are modern ATGs.

Canelo needs help. And lots of it. Not the fake help you Floyd hater saw. But real, crooked, help.
He never was an authentic boxing product from the start.

Canelo is not the best fighter in the world today. however, he is by far the biggest draw in boxing today. That's a difference. Manny, Floyd, RJJ and B-Hop were also great draws in there peak. At times all where nominated at P4P no. 1

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Canelo needs help... But real, crooked, help.
He never was an authentic boxing product from the start.

When I read some of the astounding comments contained within this thread, it makes me truly wonder whether freedom of speech is really a good thing for some people.

Perhaps there should be IQ tests or something similar to qualify for the right to use this privilege.

gilgamesh wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:
On the contrary, if you look at the cards, to deny corruption of at least one judge in each of these fights is utterly absurd.

Lara
Martinez 117-111

Floyd
Ross 114-114

Trout
Christodoulou 118-109
10 rounds?

117-111 in the Lara fight sounds about right to me. Lara didn't do enough in that fight to win rounds, and was outworked in almost every round. Canelo's body shots were some of the only meaningful shots in the fight. Lara would land some straight lefts here and there, but was too damn defensive minded to take many clear rounds.

What the hell fight were you watching? Lara outlanded Canelo in at least half of the rounds, and at least half of the punches they counted for Canelo were blocked. I am not against Canelo getting the nod in a very close fight, but even with the punches they counted which shouldn't have, Lara still outlanded him by about 10 punches. To me, Lara won the fight. Canelo always gets at least one corrupt judges score, and often two. They should have made it a draw and rematched. That will never happen because Golden boy drug their feet to the max for the fight in the first place, same as they did with Trout. We all can see why. Canelo looks horrible against good boxers with a decent chin.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:117-111 in the Lara fight sounds about right to me. Lara didn't do enough in that fight to win rounds, and was outworked in almost every round. Canelo's body shots were some of the only meaningful shots in the fight. Lara would land some straight lefts here and there, but was too damn defensive minded to take many clear rounds.

That's the reason why I scored it 7-5 Lara.
I could agree with a draw too.

I had 117-111 for Canelo

How when he sounds like a parrot don't you remember ''i'm not a middleweight''

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: In 49 Canelo fights, only Floyd (1), Lara (2), Trout (3) and Cotto (C ) were ranked in the top #10 of the division.
Every other opponent wasn't even close ... and he was basically 1-1-2 in these fights.

In 35 GGG fight, he's already faced Proksa (10), Macklin (6), Stevens (10), Geale (3), Rubio (8), Murray (6), Lemiuex (4)
In these fights GGG is a convincing 7-0.

Canelo hasn't even faced a smaller opponent as dangerous as Brook.
Although, the Ring rated Amir Khan #3 at 147 for 2014 and 2015.

- Dainties here will always prefer the runners, duckers and stinkers like Lara, Trout, and TUE. Lord only knows how many fans would be asphyxiated if those three ever matched up in a round robin, so they avoid each other. Even BALCO JMMarquez has joined your anti Canelo glee club, it's the new fad. Traditionalists prefer hard fighting in reverse as seen with Crawford against Postol.

Kid turned pro at 15 yrs and you want him to face nothing but 49 top 10 fighters? How dumb is that? What grade are you even in? He beat future LW champ Vasquez when both were teens, and beat him again a few years later. Made his US debut in 2008 at age 18 in the welter division, beating a good prospect out of boxing, nephew of Shane, Larry Mosley. In 2010, age 19, he KOed Miguel's brother, the other Miguel Cotto, a long time ranked lightweight contender to set up the lucrative brother revenge bout. He KOed Giant Baldomir easily, a much better result than TUE, beat TUE sparring partner N'dou, and beat the fighter TUE craved when he first backed out of the Manny fight, Matthew Hatton, and next year Ryan Rhodes, the #4 for the WBC title, a damn active run for any 20 yr old, so what schlep was TUE fighting at age 20? Not for a title but rather a rash of bums, not even a prospect until Arum arranged for Hernandez to cash out in his last fight. Kid fought a much bigger, stronger, better prepared Mosely than TUE fought, fighting all those ranked 154s TUE ran from including Kirkland, and yeah, a few ranked welts as happens all through history, see Golovkin.

Now he's fighting Smith, a disappointment for his fans, but the Golovkin fight was delayed when All Star Boxing in Floriduh won a judgement against Canelo's contract in spite of ruling they had no contract, so of course Canelo to appeal S8.5 mil damages Maybe they don't want to risk a big fight until that's settled. May also be gold in them Brit hills with Smith and Canelo both a family of boxers in the same general weight classes, so they could have a pretty lucrative family tourney together. At any rate, Smith undefeated and ranked like most Canelo beat. The idea was to set up Canelo for Billy Joe's WBO belt before Golovkin, but this is boxing so back stabbers change things daily. Looks like Golovkin working in cohoots to build up his share of the British market, but remember, Leoffler and Golovkin turned their backs and walked out of the arena after Canelo invited them into the ring after dispatching Khan. Not a very sporting gesture to promote their fight.

Canelo 20 yr old in his JrMid Ring ranking debut at #10. The top 4 at the time, 1-Kermit Cintron, 2-Alfredo Angulo, 3-Miguel Cotto, 4-Ryan Rhode, and he got to them as fast as he could while TUE still fighting bums, read it and leak...

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:Kid fought a much bigger, stronger, better prepared Mosely than TUE fought

You almost had me with the age point.
But then you say things like this ...

My "problem" isn't with Canelo being famous or even the fact that he is a very good boxer.
I can even get over the fact he is the biggest financial draw in boxing.
Nelly sold tons of albums. People don't necessarily spend money of quality.

I just don't like his elevated ranking because of his celebrity.