BoxRec

jewboypgh wrote:Yinz are all haters. PBC is the best thing to happen to boxing in years

It's me, you and Al all the way.

People are saying that "it's not their money" so they don't care about Haymon's business model with the PBC. What they are failing to realize is the collateral and direct damage Haymon and his antics have done to Boxing as a sport. He's stockpiled the most talent in Boxing and not only is he not pitting the right stars against each other for the best entertainment value for the fans but he's also a big part of the promotion cold war keeping his fighters away from negotiating fights with other promoters boxers. All the promoters are to blame but Haymon's been playing dirty pool with the way he's hijacked these boxers, boxing dates and boxing venues. He's like the fat kid at the bbq licking every steak on the grill.

I hope Haymon fails and fails miserably and finally boxers will realize that this guy should be thanked in the same breath as God in post fight interviews.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Why do you believe ESPN's payscale to FNF fighters was fair?
Why do you believe HBO's, Bob Arum's and other promoter's economic logic?

500k sounds about right for the fight.
How much was the ad time going for?

Maybe ESPN, the biggest thing in all of sports,
completely under-invested in boxing.

I strongly doubt the gate plus ad time was sufficient to pay Guerrero's purse, let alone all the other myriad costs of putting a card on.

The card got the same ratings as a high school football game that aired on ESPN in the mid-afternoon.

jujigatame wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Why do you believe ESPN's payscale to FNF fighters was fair?
Why do you believe HBO's, Bob Arum's and other promoter's economic logic?

500k sounds about right for the fight.
How much was the ad time going for?

Maybe ESPN, the biggest thing in all of sports,
completely under-invested in boxing.

I strongly doubt the gate plus ad time was sufficient to pay Guerrero's purse, let alone all the other myriad costs of putting a card on.

The card got the same ratings as a high school football game that aired on ESPN in the mid-afternoon.

So what does the rating have to do with $500,000?

You talk as if you know how much ESPN makes during such a show.
If you don't, then you are taking an American billionaire's idea of "profit" without scrutiny.

That would be very stupid

The ratings determine what they can charge advertisers, so of course it is relevant. What kind of advertisers do you see on mid-afternoon HS football games? Ones with a tight budget.

I don't know if Haymon is paying Spike TV for the airtime or whether there's a more traditional arrangement in place, but FNF on ESPN2 used to get better ratings and they'd generally only pay promoters $20-30k for the TV rights to a card.

It's possible some of the bigger cards like Thurman/Porter are profitable, but there is no way these minor cards are anything but big losers.

jujigatame wrote:The ratings determine what they can charge advertisers, so of course it is relevant. What kind of advertisers do you see on mid-afternoon HS football games? Ones with a tight budget.

I don't know if Haymon is paying Spike TV for the airtime or whether there's a more traditional arrangement in place, but FNF on ESPN2 used to get better ratings and they'd generally only pay promoters $20-30k for the TV rights to a card.

It's possible some of the bigger cards like Thurman/Porter are profitable, but there is no way these minor cards are anything but big losers.

Once again, you are basing this on nothing.
How much did ESPN get per ad during the broadcast.

If you don't know, then you don't know.
Also, I'm not sure ad time costs are dynamic in the sense that they can change after an event based on the ratings.

Some NFL games do shit. Doesn't make MNF ads cheaper.

For some reason, if the people at the top accept a lower % of the profits, westerners/capitalist see that as a failing business.

You are engaging in some seriously wishful thinking. ESPN2 used to spend $20-30k on FNF episodes that would do ratings of 0.3-0.4. These minor PBC cards do ratings of like 0.1-0.2, and they paid a single fighter $500k. The idea that a card like this could have been profitable is delusional. Where is this money coming from?

It really amazes me that so many people here are so concerned, or critical of PBC. It's fornicating free boxing to watch! I get the Al Haymon hate...wait, actually I don't but that is besides the point. You can hope it fails, hope it is a financial disaster, but what the hell does it matter if you don't have anything invested in it? The negative people that follow boxing are hurting the sport more than anything. Everyone gets frustrated, but only worry about things you can control, and you will be fine. If you have a chip on your shoulder, and hate boxing at its current state (because its not run like MMA) go away! No one will miss you.

Badhusker wrote:It really amazes me that so many people here are so concerned, or critical of PBC. It's effing free boxing to watch! I get the Al Haymon hate...wait, actually I don't but that is besides the point. You can hope it fails, hope it is a financial disaster, but what the hell does it matter if you don't have anything invested in it? The negative people that follow boxing are hurting the sport more than anything. Everyone gets frustrated, but only worry about things you can control, and you will be fine. If you have a chip on your shoulder, and hate boxing at its current state (because its not run like MMA) go away! No one will miss you.

By far your best post ever.
I don't care if Haymon makes a billion dollars or losses his ass. I just care that I'm getting free boxing on TV.

I'll enjoy it as long as it lasts

jujigatame wrote:The ratings determine what they can charge advertisers, so of course it is relevant. What kind of advertisers do you see on mid-afternoon HS football games? Ones with a tight budget.

I don't know if Haymon is paying Spike TV for the airtime or whether there's a more traditional arrangement in place, but FNF on ESPN2 used to get better ratings and they'd generally only pay promoters $20-30k for the TV rights to a card.

It's possible some of the bigger cards like Thurman/Porter are profitable, but there is no way these minor cards are anything but big losers.

Every single PBC card was paid for by PBC. Amazing how many fans Al has; I can only assume they're fighters or morons, he's great for fighters, great for himself, great idea, but clueless how to mesh that along with dealing with the fact that Americans would rather watch pawn stars than Boxing. Something like Thurman/Porter is still a loss, they bought airtime to generate sponsor money to continue the business relationship. Thurman/Spence wouldn't outdraw beach volleyball. Boxing is a niche sport in America, nobody but us fistic nerds care. The lifeline is HBO & Showtime, same thing that started the decline, they are financial entities so vast that Boxing doesn't cost them money. Like an hourly mail room employee at a Wall Street company. If 1% of their audience cares about Boxing....good.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

jujigatame wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Why do you believe ESPN's payscale to FNF fighters was fair?
Why do you believe HBO's, Bob Arum's and other promoter's economic logic?

500k sounds about right for the fight.
How much was the ad time going for?

Maybe ESPN, the biggest thing in all of sports,
completely under-invested in boxing.

I strongly doubt the gate plus ad time was sufficient to pay Guerrero's purse, let alone all the other myriad costs of putting a card on.

The card got the same ratings as a high school football game that aired on ESPN in the mid-afternoon.

So what does the rating have to do with $500,000?

You talk as if you know how much ESPN makes during such a show.
If you don't, then you are taking an American billionaire's idea of "profit" without scrutiny.

That would be very stupid

ESPN pays events to air them, PBC pays ESPN.

Badhusker wrote:It really amazes me that so many people here are so concerned, or critical of PBC. It's effing free boxing to watch! I get the Al Haymon hate...wait, actually I don't but that is besides the point. You can hope it fails, hope it is a financial disaster, but what the hell does it matter if you don't have anything invested in it? The negative people that follow boxing are hurting the sport more than anything. Everyone gets frustrated, but only worry about things you can control, and you will be fine. If you have a chip on your shoulder, and hate boxing at its current state (because its not run like MMA) go away! No one will miss you.

It completely amazes me how some people are in love with a nonfighter to the degree that Al has 'haters'. He did what every Boxing fan wanted, it failed. I wish it wouldn't have. He's a genius, he's made millions while he lost others money. Not his fault, America doesn't give a fornicate about Boxing.

tiny_acres wrote:

Badhusker wrote:It really amazes me that so many people here are so concerned, or critical of PBC. It's effing free boxing to watch! I get the Al Haymon hate...wait, actually I don't but that is besides the point. You can hope it fails, hope it is a financial disaster, but what the hell does it matter if you don't have anything invested in it? The negative people that follow boxing are hurting the sport more than anything. Everyone gets frustrated, but only worry about things you can control, and you will be fine. If you have a chip on your shoulder, and hate boxing at its current state (because its not run like MMA) go away! No one will miss you.

By far your best post ever.
I don't care if Haymon makes a billion dollars or losses his ass. I just care that I'm getting free boxing on TV.

I'll enjoy it as long as it lasts

I pay a ridiculous amount for monthly cable, it's free if you have 4 channels.

"It's free" they tell, whilst being served a steaming turd at a restaurant...."I'll eat it" they say whilst tucking in... Ignoring the fact local restaurants selling better quality food are closing their doors

Why is there so much doom and gloom about Al Haymon’s PBC business venture, coupled with all the nonsense derogatory fictional claims being made on this thread (such as claims of "billion dollar losses" and claims that it is already regarded as a "failed business")?

The PBC is currently in its proof of concept stage of its launch cycle, which is when most businesses operate at a loss, because not only is Haymon televising his shows on free-to-air TV, but he is also having to pay for this privilege out of his war chest (as the TV networks aren't contributing at the moment).

The PBC must still be operating according to their business plan, because Haymon paid for multi-year contracts with multiple TV networks, with the earliest not due to expire until next year.

It doesn’t make sense for the PBC to stage all of their biggest fights without being paid to do so by the TV networks, so I suspect their main priority for them at the moment is to build the brand name and also a loyal fan-base, rather than pleasing a select few hard-core fight fans.

Al Haymon now works with Golden Boy & Top Rank. He has recently allowed some of his fighters to have their bouts televised by HBO… and top HBO executive (Peter Nelson) has stated that the cable network is now willing to work with anyone (including Haymon).

To be honest, any human being that wants the PBC to fail, simply because they prefer boxing to be a niche sport (in America) accessible to only a small minority of people that pay a monthly cable subscription fee… is a fúckíng túrd of the highest order!

Whilst things aren’t currently perfect, the situation is improving rapidly, so let’s just resist the temptation to lambast Al Haymon, simply because he refrains from talking to the media and none of us know anything about the man.

If you aren’t happy about the PBC, then ask for your fúckíng money back! FFS!

jujigatame wrote:Paying a badly faded Robert Guerrero $500K to fight a cab driver (literally) in the main event of a televised card. How is this possibly sustainable? It feels like Haymon funneling venture capital to his fighters until the wheels fall off.

Seriously. I back PBC 1000% but paying fighters this much is just not sustainable. Guerrero should be ecstatic with 100K to fight a retired fighter like Peralta on Spike TV