BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:

Badhusker wrote:Could be. Kovalev's coach is saying Ward is past his prime, so that doesn't help his pfp status if he beats him. I disagree and think Ward is prime. 50-50 fight with edge to Ward.

Gonzalez could solidify his status by fighting Rigo at 122. Pretty sure he walks around a little over that.

I don't think Gonazalez will have it all his own way against Cuadras tbh. I expect him to win but I think it'll be closer than a lot of people expect. His movement is an absolute joy to watch but will he carry his power up to SFW? Then to jump to Bantam then SBW is a big ask. As you say though, if he done that then you'd have to hand him the p4p crown and let him keep it! Especially if he beat someone like Rigo.

Cuadras is a very good fighter. I'd say this is about his max weight to be effective, maybe 118. He should fight Rigo right after Rigo takes on Crawford. Lol

I honestly don't think it is that much of a stretch. If you got a guy in his prime fighting another top guy, at what happens to be near his walking around weight what is the problem? Floyd and Manny have done it numerous times.

boxing_rocks wrote: Ring is controlled by GB which explains Canelo's rankings.

- Dunno what Canelo's Ring P4P #8 ranking has to do with Ward/Kovalev, but Canelo also ranked 6th by ESPN and #1 by boxrec, so perhaps some should look inward for readjustment.

It's true that today's strapping g-string lassies get all bouncy for modern day stinkers, and such is the way of a democracy that they have their choices. Traditional fans deplore the stink science to support the sweet science that includes both the noble artistry and the bestial brutality of the KO that made boxing the number 1 sport descendant from the sport of Kings....errr....until noobs arrived with distinct stink preferences.

Those who study fights in advance worryingly see Ward subjectively ranked 4th P4P in Ring in spite of fighting poor opponents for years, the last one being paid an emaciated $30K to Ward's $850K. That's 97% of the purse Ward got to add to his Imelda Marcos shoe collection, yet boxrec's objective assessment places him 19th, just above Lee Selby. Think about it.

Though Kovalev is ranked highly everywhere, we all know what a stink bomb can do in the public sphere, so gas masks may be needed to stave off fatal asphyxiation, stink about it.

Ian1973 wrote:In answer to the original question - very possibly. Golovkin stands in the way though.

Yeah, exactly. If Ward beat Kovalev, it would be huge, but he still has to compete with Golovkin's AMAZING WIN OVER THE LEGENDARY DANIEL GEALE. MAKE ROOM IN THE HALL OF FAME FOR GOLOVKIN'S GREATEST OPPONENTS, LIKE DANIEL GEALE AND MATTHEW MACKLIN!

Badhusker wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:
I don't think Gonazalez will have it all his own way against Cuadras tbh. I expect him to win but I think it'll be closer than a lot of people expect. His movement is an absolute joy to watch but will he carry his power up to SFW? Then to jump to Bantam then SBW is a big ask. As you say though, if he done that then you'd have to hand him the p4p crown and let him keep it! Especially if he beat someone like Rigo.

Cuadras is a very good fighter. I'd say this is about his max weight to be effective, maybe 118. He should fight Rigo right after Rigo takes on Crawford. Lol

I honestly don't think it is that much of a stretch. If you got a guy in his prime fighting another top guy, at what happens to be near his walking around weight what is the problem? Floyd and Manny have done it numerous times.

OK

littlepug wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Can you remember the last time that we had a big fight of this magnitude in which the winner would most likely be considered the P4P King of the sport? Floyd and Manny could have been had the fight been conducted 5 years prior but it wasn't. I think that you'd have to go back to the dominating days of the heavyweight to find a fight that meant this much for the winner.

Nothing against Roman Gonzales but I refuse to recognize a P4P king who weighs less than my petite girlfriend. I feel that the winner of this fight deserves the crown provided that the winner is determined legitimately and deservedly (no sketchy decision, DQ or on cuts). I think that this is the best fight that could possibly be made in Boxing right now and if we can get one of these a year, we all should be happy.

What do you think? Should the winner of this fight be declared the P4P best in the sport?

probably jones v toney or whitaker v chavez was the last time, dont really understand your issue with Gonzales and his weight, a world class fighter is a world class fighter regardless of how much he weighs and shouldnt effect his p4p status, bit silly that really

I'm a RG fan and do appreciate his skills but I just can't overlook the fact that we are talking about dominance at 111 pounds here. In my experience as a collegiate wrestler, and I feel it's also true in boxing, you find that there's just not a lot of talented athletes that far down the scale. The talent pool is thin because it's tough to find men that can even be that light so were talking about dominance over a small number of the population that can even weigh that light on the scale.

This is why I refuse to accept the criticism of GGG's competition. 160 pounds is the melting pot of Boxing with people sucking down from 190 or coming up from 140 range. We're talking about grown men here and many of them and GGG's walking through them all. I'm not saying that RG's skills should be discounted, he's exciting as hell. But if RG was born heavier and fighting at 160, GGG would walk through him in my mind when i preview the fight.

caldo2025 wrote:

littlepug wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Can you remember the last time that we had a big fight of this magnitude in which the winner would most likely be considered the P4P King of the sport? Floyd and Manny could have been had the fight been conducted 5 years prior but it wasn't. I think that you'd have to go back to the dominating days of the heavyweight to find a fight that meant this much for the winner.

Nothing against Roman Gonzales but I refuse to recognize a P4P king who weighs less than my petite girlfriend. I feel that the winner of this fight deserves the crown provided that the winner is determined legitimately and deservedly (no sketchy decision, DQ or on cuts). I think that this is the best fight that could possibly be made in Boxing right now and if we can get one of these a year, we all should be happy.

What do you think? Should the winner of this fight be declared the P4P best in the sport?

probably jones v toney or whitaker v chavez was the last time, dont really understand your issue with Gonzales and his weight, a world class fighter is a world class fighter regardless of how much he weighs and shouldnt effect his p4p status, bit silly that really

I'm a RG fan and do appreciate his skills but I just can't overlook the fact that we are talking about dominance at 111 pounds here. In my experience as a collegiate wrestler, and I feel it's also true in boxing, you find that there's just not a lot of talented athletes that far down the scale. The talent pool is thin because it's tough to find men that can even be that light so were talking about dominance over a small number of the population that can even weigh that light on the scale.

This is why I refuse to accept the criticism of GGG's competition. 160 pounds is the melting pot of Boxing with people sucking down from 190 or coming up from 140 range. We're talking about grown men here and many of them and GGG's walking through them all. I'm not saying that RG's skills should be discounted, he's exciting as hell. But if RG was born heavier and fighting at 160, GGG would walk through him in my mind when i preview the fight.

Fair point

caldo2025 wrote:In my experience as a collegiate wrestler, and I feel it's also true in boxing, you find that there's just not a lot of talented athletes that far down the scale. The talent pool is thin because it's tough to find men that can even be that light so were talking about dominance over a small number of the population that can even weigh that light on the scale.

Was your college in the Philippines? Japan? Thailand? Mexico? South Africa?

Lackeos wrote:

Ian1973 wrote:In answer to the original question - very possibly. Golovkin stands in the way though.

Yeah, exactly. If Ward beat Kovalev, it would be huge, but he still has to compete with Golovkin's AMAZING WIN OVER THE LEGENDARY DANIEL GEALE. MAKE ROOM IN THE HALL OF FAME FOR GOLOVKIN'S GREATEST OPPONENTS, LIKE DANIEL GEALE AND MATTHEW MACKLIN!

If Ward beats Kovalev, it would be huge. The other way -- I wouldn't say so. A dominant LHW would beat a guy who moved up in weight and hasn't fought anybody notable in 5 years. A good win over a has-been, but not huge.

squiggy wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:In my experience as a collegiate wrestler, and I feel it's also true in boxing, you find that there's just not a lot of talented athletes that far down the scale. The talent pool is thin because it's tough to find men that can even be that light so were talking about dominance over a small number of the population that can even weigh that light on the scale.

Was your college in the Philippines? Japan? Thailand? Mexico? South Africa?

The average weight for Mexican WOMEN today is 152lbs so i'm not sure Mexico is a great way to make your point.

Europe, US and Mexico are the biggest contributors of athletes to the sport of boxing. Let's be honest. The average weights in Europe and USA is roughly 185 pounds for men. It's not about opinion, it's just the math that says it all. 111 pounds is very far away from the average weight of men in the countries contributing the most champions to the sport. You can't argue against the numbers.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:They'd be no worse than #2 on all lists that's for sure. Most people will probably have the winner of this #1, but people should bare in mind that Chocolatito will be fighting Carlos Cuadras in September, and if he were to beat Cuadras who is the #1 ranked fighter at 115, and become a World Champion in his 4th weight class. Especially if he does so in impressive fashion. That's nothing to take lightly either.

Also, I see the BS already. If Ward wins a boring stinker, he did his job.
.

have to agree, in an ideal ward world he'd destroy Kovalev and leave him sprawling on canvas. But that's not going to happen and Ward has to execute a game plan that gets him a W. If that entails an ugly points win so be it. Nobody else has managed it.

caldo2025 wrote:

squiggy wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:In my experience as a collegiate wrestler, and I feel it's also true in boxing, you find that there's just not a lot of talented athletes that far down the scale. The talent pool is thin because it's tough to find men that can even be that light so were talking about dominance over a small number of the population that can even weigh that light on the scale.

Was your college in the Philippines? Japan? Thailand? Mexico? South Africa?

The average weight for Mexican WOMEN today is 152lbs so i'm not sure Mexico is a great way to make your point.

Europe, US and Mexico are the biggest contributors of athletes to the sport of boxing. Let's be honest. The average weights in Europe and USA is roughly 185 pounds for men. It's not about opinion, it's just the math that says it all. 111 pounds is very far away from the average weight of men in the countries contributing the most champions to the sport. You can't argue against the numbers.

You are talking about averages in OVERWEIGHT population, not athletes. Average height of a male in the U.S. is under 5'10" which normally translates into 154-168 weight class in a boxer. An average Mexican male is 5'4 1/2" ...

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote: Ring is controlled by GB which explains Canelo's rankings.

- Dunno what Canelo's Ring P4P #8 ranking has to do with Ward/Kovalev, but Canelo also ranked 6th by ESPN and #1 by boxrec, so perhaps some should look inward for readjustment.

ESPN, the Ring and HBO are all the same thing at this point. FACT.

Boxrec boosted that nigga cuz he probably wore one of their t-shirts.

boxing_rocks wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

squiggy wrote:
Was your college in the Philippines? Japan? Thailand? Mexico? South Africa?

The average weight for Mexican WOMEN today is 152lbs so i'm not sure Mexico is a great way to make your point.

Europe, US and Mexico are the biggest contributors of athletes to the sport of boxing. Let's be honest. The average weights in Europe and USA is roughly 185 pounds for men. It's not about opinion, it's just the math that says it all. 111 pounds is very far away from the average weight of men in the countries contributing the most champions to the sport. You can't argue against the numbers.

You are talking about averages in OVERWEIGHT population, not athletes. Average height of a male in the U.S. is under 5'10" which normally translates into 154-168 weight class in a boxer. An average Mexican male is 5'4 1/2" ...

The point is that if the average boxing weight in the countries contributing the most boxers is in the 154-168 range then that means that GGG's is commanding a pool that has the most fish swimming in it. RG is a fantastic boxer and if he becomes a 4 division champ then I can't argue with that success and he should get what he deserves but to recognize him as the top P4P fighter is a bit silly to me. He's dominating a division in which the the top boxing countries do not have a presence because it's too light. If Europe and America had a bunch of 111 pound fighters competing then it would be different but neither have enough talent that low on the scale to compete there. Hence, RG's success needs be gauged with that in mind.

why guage average (boxing) weights according to the average US male, caldo, given that boxing is dying in the US, and participation worldwide is higher in other countries (many of them countries where the average height/soize is considerably lower than in the US)

why not think about the average weights of men where boxing is actually still fairly popular, like, umm, Latin America and Japan and the Phillipines and Mexico, and shit?

caldo2025 wrote:

squiggy wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:In my experience as a collegiate wrestler, and I feel it's also true in boxing, you find that there's just not a lot of talented athletes that far down the scale. The talent pool is thin because it's tough to find men that can even be that light so were talking about dominance over a small number of the population that can even weigh that light on the scale.

Was your college in the Philippines? Japan? Thailand? Mexico? South Africa?

The average weight for Mexican WOMEN today is 152lbs so i'm not sure Mexico is a great way to make your point.

Europe, US and Mexico are the biggest contributors of athletes to the sport of boxing. Let's be honest. The average weights in Europe and USA is roughly 185 pounds for men. It's not about opinion, it's just the math that says it all. 111 pounds is very far away from the average weight of men in the countries contributing the most champions to the sport. You can't argue against the numbers.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/body-measurements.htm

Americans are the fattest. Average weight for males = 195.5 Females = 166.2 (yes, fatter than Mexican women)
Thought I would contribute to the semi worthless, silly conversation.