BoxRec

tigermoth87 wrote:Surprised at so many people saying Joshua.

I guess KOing a bunch of D-Level bums with padded records is impressive to some.

He fought and convincively won and KOed higher ranked boxrec boxers as any current active heavyweight boxer in the world, except for Klitschko, Fury and Povetkin...

asdfjkl wrote:

tigermoth87 wrote:Surprised at so many people saying Joshua.

I guess KOing a bunch of D-Level bums with padded records is impressive to some.

He fought and convincively won and KOed higher ranked boxrec boxers as any current active heavyweight boxer in the world, except for Klitschko, Fury and Povetkin...

Martin, Cornish and Whyte are domestic level at best. Cornish I wouldn't even put at domestic level. Brezeale should arguably have lost against Fred Kassi. Neither of them are good wins.

Even Haye with his poor choice of opponents at least holds a win over Valuev who was a legitimate top 10 fighter. Pulev's wins over Chisora, Ustinov, Dimetrenko and a non-shot Tony Thompson are better than anyone on Joshua's resume. Even Wilder who is an utter cherry picker at least holds a win over Stiverne who was/is a top 10 level fighter. Even the win over Duhaupas is more impressive than any name on Joshua's list.

Joshua has fought shite. Fighters who barely belong in the top 30.

asdfjkl wrote:

Killer Blow wrote:At this moment in time, the top 5 in no particular order are Fury, Wlad, Povetkin, Wilder and Ortiz. This is based on ability and resume. No one with the slightest shred of objectivity would deny this.

However, if Joshua fights Pulev in November and beats him, I'd definitely put him in there. If he beats Parker or Stiverne, then a strong argument can be made.

As for who is THE best, the jury is still out. Fury is definitely the number one until he loses though, even if I'm far from a fan.

But what has Wilder done to put him in the top 5? Begging to a drugsaddict like Arreola if he please wants to give up because Wilder couldn't continue? Winning against a fight against a teacher who clearly teached him a lesson in the beginning? Winning against a boxer who had a losing record against guys that were actually known by wikipedia? Winning (but not even dominating) against a hooligan from Poland who's probably not even the best of Poland itself? Winning against a dehydrated guy who already lost against a guy with a losing record and has never won against any European at all?

If Joshua beats Pulev in his next fight he's above Wilder. Unlike you, I can actually objectively analyse things.

I opened this topic, and I will try to explain my attitude. So, it is very difficult to decide, but, here is my list :

1. Joshua : Young and hungry; height, weight and reach are great adventage for him, excellent power, very decent chin....
A little bit stiff, questionable stamina, weak resume...I feel that he has a great potential...
2. Klitschko : EX-champion, had long rule over HW division, passed his prime, but still dangerous, with experience and power...
Soft chin, not so brave....questionable motivation....still in the game...
3. Ortiz : Cuban has come from obscurity, but he is almost complete fighter, his performances against Jennings and Thompson (former contenders)
were wonderful, I can not see flaws in his game, his age could be a problem.
4. Haye : He is/was often underrated, but I am sure that he can still defeat everyone (see Chisora or Valuev)...
He could be more polite and avoid stupid trash talking. Definitely, he is not Ali...
5. Wilder : Extremely powerful, but not so skillful, ,is not proven yet, but if healthy he can defeat anyone (like Haye)
6. Fury : He defeated Wlad, elusive and awkward, height, reach and mobility are his adventages.
Soft chin, and mental issues are against him.

I have to mention Povetkin, he is not the best, but he is in top ten HW list almost a decade. Parker is coming, but I can see some flaws in his defence (half-open), he is still green, but has solid chances to become champion. Pulev and Stiverne are # 9 and 10 on my top ten HW list.

Chuck Gardner

asdfjkl wrote:

tigermoth87 wrote:Surprised at so many people saying Joshua.

I guess KOing a bunch of D-Level bums with padded records is impressive to some.

He fought and convincively won and KOed higher ranked boxrec boxers as any current active heavyweight boxer in the world, except for Klitschko, Fury and Povetkin...

Maybe? Povetkin KO'd better people and it's not even close. Ortiz has too.

I see a lot of people putting Fury as number 1 because he 'beat the man'. This isn't a question of who is the legitimate linear champion, or who's number one, because there is no argument that that is Tyson Fury.

The question, who is the best heavyweight right now. By no means is this an easy question to answer.

I would argue against Fury as I think the likes of Joshua and Wilder knock him out. He has shown weaknesses in his chin, as he's been floored against lesser opposition (granted he got up and won the fight each time). I'd also argue there is serious questions over his motivation. We'll know a lot more after the Klitchko rematch. After that you have Klitchko who is still a genuine threat, but also really pushing the age boundaries. Could he cope with a young engine who comes out punching? The likes of Haye are although I think a very competent fighter, just lacking size to trouble the likes of Joshua and Wilder. Parker is still in the prospect category, as currently I don't see him beating the likes of Joshua and Wilder. Despite his fantastic hand speed, he is vulnerable defensively, and soon as he fights a big puncher I think he could be in trouble.

I think the best candidates are Joshua, Wilder and Ortiz, but even then there is massive arguments against each. Joshua is still yet to be taken rounds, does the guy have a chin (at all)? He has excellent technique, is very strong, has good motivation, and probably one of the hardest punchers in the division. Wilder, also a very big puncher, but technique wise he is very wayward. That said, he has demonstrated he has a decent chin, at least more than Joshua anyway, and has shown he can come through fights, despite under performing. And then finally Ortiz. He seems to have it all. Technique, movement, power, what will happen if you put him in with any of the big heavyweights right now? Does he beat them all?

Rob3_142 wrote:I see a lot of people putting Fury as number 1 because he 'beat the man'. This isn't a question of who is the legitimate linear champion, or who's number one, because there is no argument that that is Tyson Fury.

The question, who is the best heavyweight right now. By no means is this an easy question to answer.

I would argue against Fury as I think the likes of Joshua and Wilder knock him out. He has shown weaknesses in his chin, as he's been floored against lesser opposition (granted he got up and won the fight each time). I'd also argue there is serious questions over his motivation. We'll know a lot more after the Klitchko rematch. After that you have Klitchko who is still a genuine threat, but also really pushing the age boundaries. Could he cope with a young engine who comes out punching? The likes of Haye are although I think a very competent fighter, just lacking size to trouble the likes of Joshua and Wilder. Parker is still in the prospect category, as currently I don't see him beating the likes of Joshua and Wilder. Despite his fantastic hand speed, he is vulnerable defensively, and soon as he fights a big puncher I think he could be in trouble.

I think the best candidates are Joshua, Wilder and Ortiz, but even then there is massive arguments against each. Joshua is still yet to be taken rounds, does the guy have a chin (at all)? He has excellent technique, is very strong, has good motivation, and probably one of the hardest punchers in the division. Wilder, also a very big puncher, but technique wise he is very wayward. That said, he has demonstrated he has a decent chin, at least more than Joshua anyway, and has shown he can come through fights, despite under performing. And then finally Ortiz. He seems to have it all. Technique, movement, power, what will happen if you put him in with any of the big heavyweights right now? Does he beat them all?

At his prime years Ortiz wasn't the best even at his home country....and now, almost 40yo...having one fight a year ...mostly against nobodies...people crown him or even consider him as the best HW??? Give me a breake!

tigermoth87 wrote:Surprised at so many people saying Joshua.

I guess KOing a bunch of D-Level bums with padded records is impressive to some.

what's more surprising to me is how people think Fury's record is that much superior when just before the Klit fight he hadn't shown anything to convince anyone he could beat Wlad.

I guess beating a guy who threw no punches changed all that though

Most talented Heavyweight I think is Anthony Joshua

ValMar wrote:I opened this topic, and I will try to explain my attitude. So, it is very difficult to decide, but, here is my list :

1. Joshua : Young and hungry; height, weight and reach are great adventage for him, excellent power, very decent chin....
A little bit stiff, questionable stamina, weak resume...I feel that he has a great potential...
2. Klitschko : EX-champion, had long rule over HW division, passed his prime, but still dangerous, with experience and power...
Soft chin, not so brave....questionable motivation....still in the game...
3. Ortiz : Cuban has come from obscurity, but he is almost complete fighter, his performances against Jennings and Thompson (former contenders)
were wonderful, I can not see flaws in his game, his age could be a problem.
4. Haye : He is/was often underrated, but I am sure that he can still defeat everyone (see Chisora or Valuev)...
He could be more polite and avoid stupid trash talking. Definitely, he is not Ali...
5. Wilder : Extremely powerful, but not so skillful, ,is not proven yet, but if healthy he can defeat anyone (like Haye)
6. Fury : He defeated Wlad, elusive and awkward, height, reach and mobility are his adventages.
Soft chin, and mental issues are against him.

I have to mention Povetkin, he is not the best, but he is in top ten HW list almost a decade. Parker is coming, but I can see some flaws in his defence (half-open), he is still green, but has solid chances to become champion. Pulev and Stiverne are # 9 and 10 on my top ten HW list.

Wow that's nearly backwards from how proven they are.

How can Fury be so much lower than Wlad after he beat him so convinceingly?

Also the first things you mention to put Joshua on top are Young (only a year and a half younger than Fury), Hungry (pretty much just a meaningless buzzword), height (behind Wilder and Fury,on part with Wlad), weight (only above Haye and Wilder), reach (only realy ahead of David haye, and 1 inch on Wlad). His chin really hasn't been tested other than an utterly mediocre punch from an out of shape Whyte who has done nothing even at domestic level. Fury's chin has passed better tests than Joshua's.

BitPlayer wrote:

ValMar wrote:I opened this topic, and I will try to explain my attitude. So, it is very difficult to decide, but, here is my list :

1. Joshua : Young and hungry; height, weight and reach are great adventage for him, excellent power, very decent chin....
A little bit stiff, questionable stamina, weak resume...I feel that he has a great potential...
2. Klitschko : EX-champion, had long rule over HW division, passed his prime, but still dangerous, with experience and power...
Soft chin, not so brave....questionable motivation....still in the game...
3. Ortiz : Cuban has come from obscurity, but he is almost complete fighter, his performances against Jennings and Thompson (former contenders)
were wonderful, I can not see flaws in his game, his age could be a problem.
4. Haye : He is/was often underrated, but I am sure that he can still defeat everyone (see Chisora or Valuev)...
He could be more polite and avoid stupid trash talking. Definitely, he is not Ali...
5. Wilder : Extremely powerful, but not so skillful, ,is not proven yet, but if healthy he can defeat anyone (like Haye)
6. Fury : He defeated Wlad, elusive and awkward, height, reach and mobility are his adventages.
Soft chin, and mental issues are against him.

I have to mention Povetkin, he is not the best, but he is in top ten HW list almost a decade. Parker is coming, but I can see some flaws in his defence (half-open), he is still green, but has solid chances to become champion. Pulev and Stiverne are # 9 and 10 on my top ten HW list.

Wow that's nearly backwards from how proven they are.

How can Fury be so much lower than Wlad after he beat him so convinceingly?

Also the first things you mention to put Joshua on top are Young (only a year and a half younger than Fury), Hungry (pretty much just a meaningless buzzword), height (behind Wilder and Fury,on part with Wlad), weight (only above Haye and Wilder), reach (only realy ahead of David haye, and 1 inch on Wlad). His chin really hasn't been tested other than an utterly mediocre punch from an out of shape Whyte who has done nothing even at domestic level. Fury's chin has passed better tests than Joshua's.

Naturaly, Fury's chin has been tested (Cunningham and Pajkić). And, yes, Joshua is big, young, tall, powerful and has a very decent reach. Sapienti sat.

ValMar wrote:Who is the best current HW ? Joshua or Fury ? Klitschko, Haye or Ortiz ? What do you think ? Without nationalistic/racistic trolling, please !

The honest answer is.....we don't know.

Wlad is 40, if he beats Fury convincingly he's #1

Or if Fury wins the re-match by an even bigger margin he's #1.

If Wilder beats Povetkin, he's #1. I doubt Wilder wants the fight.

Joshua looks great, but who has he fought?

I'll settle for this. If the winner of Wlad vs. Fury or the winner of Wilder vs Povetkin fought Joshua, we'd have a consensus #1.