BoxRec

Impractical Poster wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Tanzio wrote: Selling Cuadras short, eh?

Not at all. I simply think Gonzalez is being overrated. He is good and definitely top 5 P4P but he is not the P4P #1 fighter in boxing. P4P #1's don't get touched up the way he was last night.

GGG gets touched up quite a bit as well. However, I'm not going to dis him in the same manner you are Gonzo.

Speaking of #1 P4P.... it's all subjective anyhow. If you have Gonzo top 5, where do you have Inoue?

I have Inoue just outside the top 10. He would be much higher but has yet to even reach 15 fights. Triple G does get touched up but unlike Gonzalez he has never been hurt and doesn't lose 4 or even 5 rounds to his opponents. I realize Gonzalez was facing a very good fighter but P4P #1 fighters shouldn't be losing 4 or 5 rounds to their opponents imo.

Roman was not "touched". He was badly beaten, while his punches seemed to have little effect on Cuadras.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
Not at all. I simply think Gonzalez is being overrated. He is good and definitely top 5 P4P but he is not the P4P #1 fighter in boxing. P4P #1's don't get touched up the way he was last night.

GGG gets touched up quite a bit as well. However, I'm not going to dis him in the same manner you are Gonzo.

Speaking of #1 P4P.... it's all subjective anyhow. If you have Gonzo top 5, where do you have Inoue?

I have Inoue just outside the top 10. He would be much higher but has yet to even reach 15 fights. Triple G does get touched up but unlike Gonzalez he has never been hurt and doesn't lose 4 or even 5 rounds to his opponents. I realize Gonzalez was facing a very good fighter but P4P #1 fighters shouldn't be losing 4 or 5 rounds to their opponents imo.

depends who they facing, lots of top p4p fighters have had close fights against tough opposition

littlepug wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: GGG gets touched up quite a bit as well. However, I'm not going to dis him in the same manner you are Gonzo.

Speaking of #1 P4P.... it's all subjective anyhow. If you have Gonzo top 5, where do you have Inoue?

I have Inoue just outside the top 10. He would be much higher but has yet to even reach 15 fights. Triple G does get touched up but unlike Gonzalez he has never been hurt and doesn't lose 4 or even 5 rounds to his opponents. I realize Gonzalez was facing a very good fighter but P4P #1 fighters shouldn't be losing 4 or 5 rounds to their opponents imo.

depends who they facing, lots of top p4p fighters have had close fights against tough opposition

We are taking about P4P #1 not P4P #2-10. P4P #1's generally dominate their opposition, that is why they are considered #1.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
Not at all. I simply think Gonzalez is being overrated. He is good and definitely top 5 P4P but he is not the P4P #1 fighter in boxing. P4P #1's don't get touched up the way he was last night.

GGG gets touched up quite a bit as well. However, I'm not going to dis him in the same manner you are Gonzo.

Speaking of #1 P4P.... it's all subjective anyhow. If you have Gonzo top 5, where do you have Inoue?

I have Inoue just outside the top 10. He would be much higher but has yet to even reach 15 fights. Triple G does get touched up but unlike Gonzalez he has never been hurt and doesn't lose 4 or even 5 rounds to his opponents. I realize Gonzalez was facing a very good fighter but P4P #1 fighters shouldn't be losing 4 or 5 rounds to their opponents imo.

Not really when you consider both Pacquiao and Mayweather have lost 4 rounds to opponents when both were considered to be P4P 1. So has Chavez and Whitaker, whenever one you choose.

IKSRTFO wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote: GGG gets touched up quite a bit as well. However, I'm not going to dis him in the same manner you are Gonzo.

Speaking of #1 P4P.... it's all subjective anyhow. If you have Gonzo top 5, where do you have Inoue?

I have Inoue just outside the top 10. He would be much higher but has yet to even reach 15 fights. Triple G does get touched up but unlike Gonzalez he has never been hurt and doesn't lose 4 or even 5 rounds to his opponents. I realize Gonzalez was facing a very good fighter but P4P #1 fighters shouldn't be losing 4 or 5 rounds to their opponents imo.

Not really when you consider both Pacquiao and Mayweather have lost 4 rounds to opponents when both were considered to be P4P 1. So has Chavez and Whitaker, whenever one you choose.

That is true but that was because the top 2 P4P fighters where facing each other. What I mean is that when P4P fighters generally face other fighters who are not P4P they generally dominate. Cuadras is really good but I doubt anyone had him as a top 10 P4P fighter.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

littlepug wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
I have Inoue just outside the top 10. He would be much higher but has yet to even reach 15 fights. Triple G does get touched up but unlike Gonzalez he has never been hurt and doesn't lose 4 or even 5 rounds to his opponents. I realize Gonzalez was facing a very good fighter but P4P #1 fighters shouldn't be losing 4 or 5 rounds to their opponents imo.

depends who they facing, lots of top p4p fighters have had close fights against tough opposition

We are taking about P4P #1 not P4P #2-10. P4P #1's generally dominate their opposition, that is why they are considered #1.

Pac NEVER dominated JMM. Cuadras was undefeated. It seems to me that he is being discarded as if he was one of Wilder's journeyman opponents.

This was always going to be a tough fight for Chocolatito. The disrespect for both fighters is reprehensible. Nearly any other fighter in history stepping up like Chocolatito has would have been stopped by Cuadras. Roman stayed the course v an undefeated fearsome warrior and got the nod.

I want to see Cuadras fight anyone. Same with Chocolatito. Great little action warriors.

Baby Face Finster wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
I have Inoue just outside the top 10. He would be much higher but has yet to even reach 15 fights. Triple G does get touched up but unlike Gonzalez he has never been hurt and doesn't lose 4 or even 5 rounds to his opponents. I realize Gonzalez was facing a very good fighter but P4P #1 fighters shouldn't be losing 4 or 5 rounds to their opponents imo.

Not really when you consider both Pacquiao and Mayweather have lost 4 rounds to opponents when both were considered to be P4P 1. So has Chavez and Whitaker, whenever one you choose.

That is true but that was because the top 2 P4P fighters where facing each other. What I mean is that when P4P fighters generally face other fighters who are not P4P they generally dominate. Cuadras is really good but I doubt anyone had him as a top 10 P4P fighter.

Marcos Maidana probably wasn't #1 at welterweight let alone a top 10 P4P fighter and he won 4 rounds off of Mayweather, P4P #1. As good as Castillo was, he probably wasn't top 10 P4P. Whitaker basically down against Hurtado before the stoppage.

Tanzio wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

littlepug wrote: depends who they facing, lots of top p4p fighters have had close fights against tough opposition

We are taking about P4P #1 not P4P #2-10. P4P #1's generally dominate their opposition, that is why they are considered #1.

Pac NEVER dominated JMM. Cuadras was undefeated. It seems to me that he is being discarded as if he was one of Wilder's journeyman opponents.

This was always going to be a tough fight for Chocolatito. The disrespect for both fighters is reprehensible. Nearly any other fighter in history stepping up like Chocolatito has would have been stopped by Cuadras. Roman stayed the course v an undefeated fearsome warrior and got the nod.

I want to see Cuadras fight anyone. Same with Chocolatito. Great little action warriors.

agree, Gonzales probably my no1 p4p after that win

IKSRTFO wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:
Not really when you consider both Pacquiao and Mayweather have lost 4 rounds to opponents when both were considered to be P4P 1. So has Chavez and Whitaker, whenever one you choose.

That is true but that was because the top 2 P4P fighters where facing each other. What I mean is that when P4P fighters generally face other fighters who are not P4P they generally dominate. Cuadras is really good but I doubt anyone had him as a top 10 P4P fighter.

Marcos Maidana probably wasn't #1 at welterweight let alone a top 10 P4P fighter and he won 4 rounds off of Mayweather, P4P #1. As good as Castillo was, he probably wasn't top 10 P4P. Whitaker basically down against Hurtado before the stoppage.

In the last few years, Mayweather was p4p #1 based on his resume, not his latest performances.

boxing_rocks wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

Baby Face Finster wrote:
That is true but that was because the top 2 P4P fighters where facing each other. What I mean is that when P4P fighters generally face other fighters who are not P4P they generally dominate. Cuadras is really good but I doubt anyone had him as a top 10 P4P fighter.

Marcos Maidana probably wasn't #1 at welterweight let alone a top 10 P4P fighter and he won 4 rounds off of Mayweather, P4P #1. As good as Castillo was, he probably wasn't top 10 P4P. Whitaker basically down against Hurtado before the stoppage.

In the last few years, Mayweather was p4p #1 based on his resume, not his latest performances.

Even when he was younger he had two close fights with Castillo who before those fights, no one had Castillo P4P top 10. Oscar and Judah possibly won 4 rounds off him also.

IKSRTFO wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

Marcos Maidana probably wasn't #1 at welterweight let alone a top 10 P4P fighter and he won 4 rounds off of Mayweather, P4P #1. As good as Castillo was, he probably wasn't top 10 P4P. Whitaker basically down against Hurtado before the stoppage.

In the last few years, Mayweather was p4p #1 based on his resume, not his latest performances.

Even when he was younger he had two close fights with Castillo who before those fights, no one had Castillo P4P top 10. Oscar and Judah possibly won 4 rounds off him also.

There's lots of guys that won't be found on any P4P list that are no joke when you get in the ring with 'em.

gilgamesh wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:
In the last few years, Mayweather was p4p #1 based on his resume, not his latest performances.

Even when he was younger he had two close fights with Castillo who before those fights, no one had Castillo P4P top 10. Oscar and Judah possibly won 4 rounds off him also.

There's lots of guys that won't be found on any P4P list that are no joke when you get in the ring with 'em.

Like the guy Roman just fought.

IKSRTFO wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:
Even when he was younger he had two close fights with Castillo who before those fights, no one had Castillo P4P top 10. Oscar and Judah possibly won 4 rounds off him also.

There's lots of guys that won't be found on any P4P list that are no joke when you get in the ring with 'em.

Like the guy Roman just fought.

Exactly

gilgamesh wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
There's lots of guys that won't be found on any P4P list that are no joke when you get in the ring with 'em.

Like the guy Roman just fought.

Exactly

So we can't shortchange Gonzalez as a possible P4P #1 fighter simply because his opponent who wasn't a top 2 P4P "won 4 rounds off him" What does "fight like a P4P #1" even means? Is it defense? Is it offense? Is it dominance? If you look up any #1P4P fighter, there will be fighters on their resume they struggled with who weren't regarded as an "A" class fighter.

IKSRTFO wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

Like the guy Roman just fought.

Exactly

So we can't shortchange Gonzalez as a possible P4P #1 fighter simply because his opponent who wasn't a top 2 P4P "won 4 rounds off him" What does "fight like a P4P #1" even means? Is it defense? Is it offense? Is it dominance? If you look up any #1P4P fighter, there will be fighters on their resume they struggled with who weren't regarded as an "A" class fighter.

Well in the case of Roman Gonzalez he's been a World Champion at 4 weight classes. He's now 46-0 or 45-0 or something like that, and has cut through most of his opponents like a hot knife through butter. I doubt he'll be able to successfully go any higher up in weight, and he may well suffer his first loss at 115 if he fights Inoue or rematches Cuadras, but I don't think anyone else at 115 beats him.

If he's not P4P #1 he's certainly Top 3 no question.

I think that Roman overstepped his weight class. With impartial judging, Roman would have gotten a draw at best. He will likely be beaten by Inoue (again with impartial judging). I don't think he is p4p #1, especially until Golovkin struggles with somebody and compared to Kovalev vs Ward winner.

boxing_rocks wrote:I think that Roman overstepped his weight class. With impartial judging, Roman would have gotten a draw at best. He will likely be beaten by Inoue (again with impartial judging). I don't think he is p4p #1, especially until Golovkin struggles with somebody and compared to Kovalev vs Ward winner.

I personally had it a draw, but Rounds 1 and 5 I scored for Cuadras and they could've easily went to Gonzalez so I had no issue with the official decision.

gilgamesh wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:I think that Roman overstepped his weight class. With impartial judging, Roman would have gotten a draw at best. He will likely be beaten by Inoue (again with impartial judging). I don't think he is p4p #1, especially until Golovkin struggles with somebody and compared to Kovalev vs Ward winner.

I personally had it a draw, but Rounds 1 and 5 I scored for Cuadras and they could've easily went to Gonzalez so I had no issue with the official decision.

The problem I see with scoring that fight is that Roman's punches were counted the same way as Carlos's. This is not amateur boxing. Cuadras's punches clearly were more powerful and inflicted significantly more damage.

boxing_rocks wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:I think that Roman overstepped his weight class. With impartial judging, Roman would have gotten a draw at best. He will likely be beaten by Inoue (again with impartial judging). I don't think he is p4p #1, especially until Golovkin struggles with somebody and compared to Kovalev vs Ward winner.

I personally had it a draw, but Rounds 1 and 5 I scored for Cuadras and they could've easily went to Gonzalez so I had no issue with the official decision.

The problem I see with scoring that fight is that Roman's punches were counted the same way as Carlos's. This is not amateur boxing. Cuadras's punches clearly were more powerful and inflicted significantly more damage.

I agree which is why I had it a draw, but it's hard to find another round to give to Cuadras where he does any better than a draw IMO. Gonzalez landed a whole lot more punches than him, and in several rounds outlanded him 2 to 1. In the rounds where the punch stats were close or comparable Cuadras got the better of it by landing the more hurtful shots. Several rounds Gonzalez was just all over him and didn't give Cuadras much breathing room to land much.

I thought Gonzalez won comfortably on the cards and uncomfortably in the ring. I was also incredibly drunk and watching it after the UFC.

Roman was extremely uncomfortable after the fight seemingly having a hard time putting a shirt on. His face was one huge bruise, while Cuadras looked like he did before the fight.

boxing_rocks wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:I think that Roman overstepped his weight class. With impartial judging, Roman would have gotten a draw at best. He will likely be beaten by Inoue (again with impartial judging). I don't think he is p4p #1, especially until Golovkin struggles with somebody and compared to Kovalev vs Ward winner.

I personally had it a draw, but Rounds 1 and 5 I scored for Cuadras and they could've easily went to Gonzalez so I had no issue with the official decision.

The problem I see with scoring that fight is that Roman's punches were counted the same way as Carlos's. This is not amateur boxing. Cuadras's punches clearly were more powerful and inflicted significantly more damage.

The fight is not scored on cumulative damage. It is judged round by round. Chocolatito did enough.

HBO would have better ratings if they replaced Max Kellerman. He comes across as a childish fanboy.

Roy Jones however is a good commentator and provides insight.

I was there and so I didn't have to listen to these guys, but I thought Gonzalez clearly won the fight. I'm not sure how anything about that could reflect poorly on him. Cuadras is a major stud who fought an absolutely terrific fight. Honestly it was one of the best fights I've been to in a long, long time and I'm at the fights almost every weekend. Hard to take anything away from either guy with a performance like this.