Next step for GGG

[Enlightened-One]

He didn't pass on Froch. Team GGG were offering him all the concessions, Froch was having none of it and retired. "Swerve him like the plague"

I have previously supplied an interview transcript of Froch claiming that GGG had requested a 164lb catch-weight stipulation for one of the attempts to make the fight, which Tom Loeffler subsequently refuted. So it's one man's word against the other.

Also, Froch's “Just swerve Golovkin like the plague. He punches like a mule. You don’t need to be in with him. Dangerous fellow!” remark was said in a tongue-in-cheek manner… and if you doubt this claim, then please watch the video I’ve supplied in the hyperlink (at the 9:45 mark).

HBO televised a brief extract of this video that only contains this particular comment, whilst promoting the Golovkin-Geale fight, which intentionally misrepresents Carl's actual sentiments, because his words were clearly taken out-of-context. They conveniently excluded the fact that Froch laughed in a sarcastic manner immediately afterwards and they also dishonestly omitted Carl’s other claim that GGG wasn’t big enough to make the jump to super-middleweight.

This was almost certainly a tongue-in-cheek comment, but for some bizarre reason, the media, as well as several forum posters, have jumped on this quote to propose the ludicrous notion that a fighter like Carl Froch is sincerely "scared" of GGG!

It's just an example of a situation that supports the commonly-held belief that Americans don't understand British humour, which often involves irony.

[boxing_rocks]

Froch refused to fight at 168. He wanted 172. Ward was never serious.

[twlyall]

GGG should – and probably will – steer clear of SMW. He's a natural 160'er, and though he finds competition hard to come by, I think he's best off staying at MW. I think that a realistic scenario (albeit hugely optimistic) for GGG could look something like: BJS (dec. 2016). Jacobs (may 2017). Canelo (sep. 2017). December might be too early for BJS – bearing in mind how little he has fought the last two years, so it could be that GGG fights Jacobs in december or otherwise indulges in on (another) "while-we-are-waiting" fight against someone like Hassan N'Dam, J'Leon Love, Andy Lee or what do I know

[boxing_rocks]

GGG will fight at 168 pretty soon. DeGale and Ramirez are already in the list of potential opponents. There are only 3-4 fights left at 160: BJS, Jacobs, Eubank and Canelo with Saunders being most important for Gennady to get the remaining belt.

[Enlightened-One]

Froch refused to fight at 168. He wanted 172. Ward was never serious.

Froch had been retired for 18 months when this set of discussions took place and Carl was weighing 186lbs or so of pure muscle.

[twlyall]

GGG will fight at 168 pretty soon. DeGale and Ramirez are already in the list of potential opponents. There are only 3-4 fights left at 160: BJS, Jacobs, Eubank and Canelo with Saunders being most important for Gennady to get the remaining belt.

I definitely see the point that MW will be drying out for Golovkin. But at the same time: What's there for him at SMW? DeGale, Ramirez, Groves, Jack etc. are surely good fighters, but what do they add to Golovkins career in terms of money, recognition, legacy etc.? Lets say GGG fights BJS, Jacobs and Canelo, he will probably be almost 36 years old at the time – if everything falls into place. Will that be an advantageous time to move up and try and conquer new territory? I am unsure. Furthermore, while there might "only" be 3-4 relevant MW-fights for GGG out there at the time, who's to say how things look in just one year? Chances are that Quillin has reestablished himself, that Eubank has enhanced his status, that Sulecki has evolved further, that one of the top JMW's have moved up etc. etc.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

GGG will fight at 168 pretty soon. DeGale and Ramirez are already in the list of potential opponents. There are only 3-4 fights left at 160: BJS, Jacobs, Eubank and Canelo with Saunders being most important for Gennady to get the remaining belt.

I definitely see the point that MW will be drying out for Golovkin. But at the same time: What's there for him at SMW? DeGale, Ramirez, Groves, Jack etc. are surely good fighters, but what do they add to Golovkins career in terms of money, recognition, legacy etc.? Lets say GGG fights BJS, Jacobs and Canelo, he will probably be almost 36 years old at the time – if everything falls into place. Will that be an advantageous time to move up and try and conquer new territory? I am unsure. Furthermore, while there might "only" be 3-4 relevant MW-fights for GGG out there at the time, who's to say how things look in just one year? Chances are that Quillin has reestablished himself, that Eubank has enhanced his status, that Sulecki has evolved further, that one of the top JMW's have moved up etc. etc.

The bigger fights at 168 didn't materialize. If he moved up successfully his detractors would shit on those guys same as the ones at 160.

[boxing_rocks]

GGG will fight at 168 pretty soon. DeGale and Ramirez are already in the list of potential opponents. There are only 3-4 fights left at 160: BJS, Jacobs, Eubank and Canelo with Saunders being most important for Gennady to get the remaining belt.

I definitely see the point that MW will be drying out for Golovkin. But at the same time: What's there for him at SMW? DeGale, Ramirez, Groves, Jack etc. are surely good fighters, but what do they add to Golovkins career in terms of money, recognition, legacy etc.? Lets say GGG fights BJS, Jacobs and Canelo, he will probably be almost 36 years old at the time – if everything falls into place. Will that be an advantageous time to move up and try and conquer new territory? I am unsure. Furthermore, while there might "only" be 3-4 relevant MW-fights for GGG out there at the time, who's to say how things look in just one year? Chances are that Quillin has reestablished himself, that Eubank has enhanced his status, that Sulecki has evolved further, that one of the top JMW's have moved up etc. etc.

The bigger fights at 168 didn't materialize. If he moved up successfully his detractors would poo on those guys same as the ones at 160.

Exactly. After he beats DeGale and Ramirez, he will have the same problems finding opponents at 168.

[Enlightened-One]

I definitely see the point that MW will be drying out for Golovkin. But at the same time: What's there for him at SMW? DeGale, Ramirez, Groves, Jack etc. are surely good fighters, but what do they add to Golovkins career in terms of money, recognition, legacy etc.?

According to The Ring website, GGG has never defeated an opponent that is as highly-rated as James DeGale or Badou Jack.

Gilberto Ramirez is rated as highly as Daniel Geale was (GGG’s highest-rated opponent to-date), but is unbeaten, whereas the Aussie veteran had already lost to Golovkin in the amateurs and was past-his-prime and recently defeated when he faced the Kazakh middleweight.

In terms of DeGale and Groves, the same set of British fans that witnessed the Brook-Golovkin fight, would also pay to watch these guys face GGG. Both men can punch and are big for their weight division, so they’d present a decent threat to Golovkin, who has a track-record of facing opponents that have historically competed at lower weight classes.

Lets say GGG fights BJS, Jacobs and Canelo, he will probably be almost 36 years old at the time – if everything falls into place. Will that be an advantageous time to move up and try and conquer new territory?

Abel Sanchez claims that 168lbs is Golovkin’s best weight and GGG has hardly taken any punishment throughout his career. There is no evidence to suggest that a 36 year old 168lb version of GGG would be less effective than the man that dominated Kell Brook.

Furthermore, while there might "only" be 3-4 relevant MW-fights for GGG out there at the time, who's to say how things look in just one year? Chances are that Quillin has reestablished himself, that Eubank has enhanced his status, that Sulecki has evolved further, that one of the top JMW's have moved up etc. etc.

Team Golovkin has been proposing the idea of Golovkin fighting at 168lbs for the last five years or so, but they haven’t done so yet. So I wouldn’t worry about Golovkin moving up a weight class anytime soon, because he’ll probably stay well within his own 160lb comfort zone.

The fans have given Golovkin a free pass and an honorary rite of passage to greatness without having faced quality opposition, so whilst they can get away with the “everyone is too scared of GGG” excuse, then they will refrain from taking risks against heavier more dangerous opponents, unless they receive a massive financial incentive to do so.

[gilgamesh]

According to The Ring website, GGG has never defeated an opponent that is as highly-rated as James DeGale or Badou Jack.

Gilberto Ramirez is rated as highly as Daniel Geale was (GGG’s highest-rated opponent to-date), but is unbeaten, whereas the Aussie veteran had already lost to Golovkin in the amateurs and was past-his-prime and recently defeated when he faced the Kazakh middleweight.

I see why Degale and Jack are rated higher for the time being, but I'd confidently pick Ramirez to beat both Degale and Jack. I think Ramirez will be a handful for a lot of guys in that division for a while to come. Just hope he gets into the big fights with the Degale's and Jack's.

[Enlightened-One]

According to ESPN, unified middleweight titlist Gennady Golovkin and secondary titleholder Daniel Jacobs on Monday were formally ordered to meet in a mandatory bout, the WBA announced.

"The 30-day negotiations period has started," WBA president Gilberto Mendoza Jr. said. "They have 120 days to do the fight."

So the negotiation period expires on the 12th October, 2016 and the bout has to be take place by the 10th January, 2017.

According to the HBO schedule, the plan is for GGG to fight on the 26th November, 2016.

Tom Loeffler did say at the Brook post-fight press conference that Jacobs is an opponent being considered, but just because he’s the mandatory for GGG’s title, doesn’t mean the contest will actually take place.

[cfang]

haha i love froch's comment about glolovkin. It seems to me that gig is a rare thing in that word has got round in boxing circles that his power is exceptional. Funny thing is despite his granite chin, mule like power and brilliant balance, ggg is very hittable.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Froch refused to fight at 168. He wanted 172. Ward was never serious.

Please ... Ward would jump on a GGG fight. Guys like Ward, Floyd, Rigo and Hopkins never lose to smaller opponents.
REASON - The "skilled/defensive" way of fighting always seeks to manipulate the best advantage.
When you are the bigger man in the ring, and you have more skills, it's too much of an advantage for these type of fighters to lose.

Ward would beat GGG 12-0. More sure of that now than ever.

GGG better watch this 6'2" Ramirez guy. If he can take GGG's punch, he could make a Postol/Mattysse scenario come about.

[boxing_rocks]

Froch refused to fight at 168. He wanted 172. Ward was never serious.

Please ... Ward would jump on a GGG fight. Guys like Ward, Floyd, Rigo and Hopkins never lose to smaller opponents.
REASON - The "skilled/defensive" way of fighting always seeks to manipulate the best advantage.
When you are the bigger man in the ring, and you have more skills, it's too much of an advantage for these type of fighters to lose.

Ward would beat GGG 12-0. More sure of that now than ever.

GGG better watch this 6'2" Ramirez guy. If he can take GGG's punch, he could make a Postol/Mattysse scenario come about.

Ward would be the bigger but not the stronger man in the ring, and he wouldn't be able to take Golovkin's punch.

You should stop praying Ward, as he will be done in two months.

[Lancenix]

I hope the mandatory fight from the WBA takes place. Jacobs vs GGG I am sure Jacobs will find some excuse to get out of this fight anyway he can. It would be fought in America and I am sure he does not want to get embarrassed in his own country and get KO'd in front of his homies. If GGG wins this fight he would have completed the clean out of America's inner city gyms.

[Purse Bid Shakedown]

He didn't pass on Froch. Team GGG were offering him all the concessions, Froch was having none of it and retired. "Swerve him like the plague"

I have previously supplied an interview transcript of Froch claiming that GGG had requested a 164lb catch-weight stipulation for one of the attempts to make the fight, which Tom Loeffler subsequently refuted. So it's one man's word against the other.

Also, Froch's “Just swerve Golovkin like the plague. He punches like a mule. You don’t need to be in with him. Dangerous fellow!” remark was said in a tongue-in-cheek manner… and if you doubt this claim, then please watch the video I’ve supplied in the hyperlink (at the 9:45 mark).

HBO televised a brief extract of this video that only contains this particular comment, whilst promoting the Golovkin-Geale fight, which intentionally misrepresents Carl's actual sentiments, because his words were clearly taken out-of-context. They conveniently excluded the fact that Froch laughed in a sarcastic manner immediately afterwards and they also dishonestly omitted Carl’s other claim that GGG wasn’t big enough to make the jump to super-middleweight.

This was almost certainly a tongue-in-cheek comment, but for some bizarre reason, the media, as well as several forum posters, have jumped on this quote to propose the ludicrous notion that a fighter like Carl Froch is sincerely "scared" of GGG!

It's just an example of a situation that supports the commonly-held belief that Americans don't understand British humour, which often involves irony.

Here's Froch clarifying it 6 months later. Posters can draw their own conclusions:

"It was tongue in cheek back then. I was being a bit cheeky and you can take those comments with a pinch of salt. What I will say though is this guy can f*cking punch: he's dangerous and if he can be avoided we'll avoid him. "

What's really pathetic is that I already showed this quote to your previous alt, but you've already forgotten it and are back with the "tongue in cheek" excuse. And you wonder why everyone thinks you're a lowly troll.

[Enlightened-One]

Here's Froch clarifying it 6 months later. Posters can draw their own conclusions:

"It was tongue in cheek back then. I was being a bit cheeky and you can take those comments with a pinch of salt. What I will say though is this guy can f*cking punch: he's dangerous and if he can be avoided we'll avoid him. "

What's really pathetic is that I already showed this quote to your previous alt, but you've already forgotten it and are back with the "tongue in cheek" excuse. And you wonder why everyone thinks you're a lowly troll.

In this thread, you framed Froch’s "tongue in cheek" comment (not excuse) as in a manner that suggested that he was scared of GGG. That seemed dishonest to me.

Also, apart from a couple of dodgy forum pages, there is no reliable source for the words you claims Froch used to clarify his stance.

So I’ll ask you to do two things:
• Prove that you had previously supplied me with this quote.
• Prove that Froch actually said those words.

I’m not saying I don’t believe you, but I can prove that people have previously lied and/or misquoted statements to protect Golovkin from receiving criticism for his minor misdemeanours.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Froch refused to fight at 168. He wanted 172. Ward was never serious.

Please ... Ward would jump on a GGG fight. Guys like Ward, Floyd, Rigo and Hopkins never lose to smaller opponents.
REASON - The "skilled/defensive" way of fighting always seeks to manipulate the best advantage.
When you are the bigger man in the ring, and you have more skills, it's too much of an advantage for these type of fighters to lose.

Ward would beat GGG 12-0. More sure of that now than ever.

GGG better watch this 6'2" Ramirez guy. If he can take GGG's punch, he could make a Postol/Mattysse scenario come about.

Ward would not beat GGG 12-0, that is ridiculous. GGG would win some rounds simply by being more aggressive than Ward.

[jezzamundo]

Froch refused to fight at 168. He wanted 172. Ward was never serious.

Please ... Ward would jump on a GGG fight. Guys like Ward, Floyd, Rigo and Hopkins never lose to smaller opponents.
REASON - The "skilled/defensive" way of fighting always seeks to manipulate the best advantage.
When you are the bigger man in the ring, and you have more skills, it's too much of an advantage for these type of fighters to lose.

Ward would beat GGG 12-0. More sure of that now than ever.

GGG better watch this 6'2" Ramirez guy. If he can take GGG's punch, he could make a Postol/Mattysse scenario come about.

Ward would be the bigger but not the stronger man in the ring, and he wouldn't be able to take Golovkin's punch.

You should stop praying Ward, as he will be done in two months.

While I disagree that a Ward-GGG fight would be that one-sided, I do favour Ward, who absolutely would be the stronger man in the ring - just not the harder hitter. I'd be cheering like hell for GGG to land that knockout punch, though.

[Crease]

I think Eubank in Decemeber, back in England.

[boxing_rocks]

I think Eubank in Decemeber, back in England.

At this time, his HBO date is November 26th. Hopefully, they will get Jacobs (Haymon) to agree. BJS has a fight scheduled in October, so he is out unless he cancels, as he has already done multiple times.

[Crease]

At this time, his HBO date is November 26th. Hopefully, they will get Jacobs (Haymon) to agree. BJS has a fight scheduled in October, so he is out unless he cancels, as he has already done multiple times.

The multi-million pound package that was offered to Golovkin was originally to fight Chris Eubank, but his party wouldn't sign it at the very last minute, so Brook stepped in.

If Matchroom offer the same deal to Golovkin and the Eubanks play ball. We could be seeing this fight real soon.

[boxing_rocks]

At this time, his HBO date is November 26th. Hopefully, they will get Jacobs (Haymon) to agree. BJS has a fight scheduled in October, so he is out unless he cancels, as he has already done multiple times.

The multi-million pound package that was offered to Golovkin was originally to fight Chris Eubank, but his party wouldn't sign it at the very last minute, so Brook stepped in.

If Matchroom offer the same deal to Golovkin and the Eubanks play ball. We could be seeing this fight real soon.

Loefler and Golovkin didn't even mention Eubank last weekend. The names thrown are: BJS, Jacobs, DeGale, Ramirez.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Please ... Ward would jump on a GGG fight. Guys like Ward, Floyd, Rigo and Hopkins never lose to smaller opponents.
REASON - The "skilled/defensive" way of fighting always seeks to manipulate the best advantage.
When you are the bigger man in the ring, and you have more skills, it's too much of an advantage for these type of fighters to lose.

Ward would beat GGG 12-0. More sure of that now than ever.

GGG better watch this 6'2" Ramirez guy. If he can take GGG's punch, he could make a Postol/Mattysse scenario come about.

Ward would be the bigger but not the stronger man in the ring, and he wouldn't be able to take Golovkin's punch.

You should stop praying Ward, as he will be done in two months.

While I disagree that a Ward-GGG fight would be that one-sided, I do favour Ward, who absolutely would be the stronger man in the ring - just not the harder hitter. I'd be cheering like hell for GGG to land that knockout punch, though.

I think GGG is smart enough to negate some of Ward's own abilities. Think it would be a close one.

[boxing_rocks]

Also, LOL at "more skills". Some category of fans is assuming that feather-fisted defensive fighters have more skills, just because they concentrate on defense. In reality, fighters like Ward just have to concentrate on defense, because their offense is not very effective and because their chins are not so good. Ward has better skills in grabbing, headbutts, elbows, but I doubt those would be enough against Golovkin.