BoxRec

crusader wrote:

Keko wrote:

Woldemar wrote:Toney UD GGG
Jones UD GGG
Hopkins MD GGG

This seems like a realistic option!

Yall must have ferg'ot

Hust is not fought with such caliber fighters.
I do not see that these wins.

Hopkins (2003) wins by UD. 12-0
Who is the best defensive fighter GGG has faced?
Compare him to Hopkins. I can't see how GGG deals with Hopkins movement.
Especially without any size advantage.
By that point, Hopkins could take away one of your hands for the entire fight.
GGG, with no right hand, dealing with Hopkins movement/skill.

Roy Jones Jr (1994) wins by stoppage.
Roy had too much agility for GGG.
Faster and more skilled than Brook.
More power than any opponent GGG has faced.

James Toney (1991-1993) wins, somehow.
Between 1991 to 1993, Toney did:
Sosa (SD), Nunn (TKO), Johnson (SD), McCallum (D), Tiberi (SD), McCallum (MD)
Toney just knew how to win, and did so against some good fighters.
Also, GGG's poor development against defensive fighters would cost him many rounds.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Hopkins (2003) wins by UD. 12-0
Who is the best defensive fighter GGG has faced?
Compare him to Hopkins. I can't see how GGG deals with Hopkins movement.
Especially without any size advantage.
By that point, Hopkins could take away one of your hands for the entire fight.
GGG, with no right hand, dealing with Hopkins movement/skill.

Roy Jones Jr (1994) wins by stoppage.
Roy had too much agility for GGG.
Faster and more skilled than Brook.
More power than any opponent GGG has faced.

James Toney (1991-1993) wins, somehow.
Between 1991 to 1993, Toney did:
Sosa (SD), Nunn (TKO), Johnson (SD), McCallum (D), Tiberi (SD), McCallum (MD)
Toney just knew how to win, and did so against some good fighters.
Also, GGG's poor development against defensive fighters would cost him many rounds.

The judges just knew how to win Toney's matches

HyacinthusTurnipseed wrote:Toney comes on strong in the late rounds but it isn't quite enough to stop him from losing a close decision he hotly disputes. Or maybe the late round push means he wins a close decision, I don't know.

RJJ is winning the fight when he gets sickeningly iced out of nowhere in the mid rounds. Or he is able to use his outlier athletic gifts to keep dancin' away from Golovkin's power for all 12 where he wins a decision. But I'd probably go with the first option if I had to pick one.

BHop drops the the second and third rounds (first is feeling out) but after that finds a way to consistently "collapse the pocket" and push GGG back enough to win a close but clear decision. Again, or lose a close decision. Even more than with the other two hypotheticals the precise limits of GGG's potential for adaptability and his specific response to the challenges a Hopkinsesque fighter poses would have to be observed before I could make a clearer prediction. You could say that about all of them but I can't think of a time where anyone has tried pushing GGG back (more explosively than Lemieux anyway), constantly grabbing and wrestling and roughing him up, Maybe even chucking in a few borderline fouls. Not everyone responds well to that stuff.

Gun to my head:
GGG W MD12 Toney
GGG W KO7 RJJ
GGG L UD12 Hopkins

I can't envisage how Roy would just have gotten iced out of nowhere.

I'm a very big fan of GG's, he's a great fighter, but it seems completely unrealistic.

gilgamesh wrote:They all present different stylistic matchups. Toney was struggling a lot to make weight as a Middleweight so I think Golovkin's steady attack would allow him to outwork Toney and take a clear decision, but Toney would land his share of damaging shots along the way. It'd be a good fight.

GGG W12 Toney

Golovkin vs Hopkins would a very close fight I think. Both are excellent at making their opponent fight their fight. For now I'd have to favor Bernard Hopkins because I've seen him execute his craft against higher level opponents at Middleweight than Golovkin. I'd take Hopkins to win a close UD or SD.

Hopkins W12 GGG

Roy Jones Jr. had his physical gifts as a Middleweight, but maybe not the Professional experience to deal with Golovkin's relentless attack and power in both hands to the body and head. I see Roy Jones winning the early rounds with his flashy combinations and quick hands, but I think Golovkin's steady attack would break him down as the fight went on, and he'd stop Middleweight Roy around the 9th or 10th round.

GGG TKO 10 Roy Jones Jr.



Sidenote: GGG vs Roy is the hardest one to call I think because we're not sure how much Roy was really capable of at 160 as he did his most notable work in higher weight classes.

We know how capable Roy was at MW.

We saw him beat Bernard with a fractured hand, we saw him knock out Malinga, and we saw him ice Thomas Tate in just 2 rounds.

He knocked out Tate in 1994, when he was 25 years old, just 6 months before he moved up to SMW to face Toney. The version of Roy who fought Toney, was essentially the same fighter who fought Tate, just slightly heavier.

The reason why Roy didn't make a huge name for himself at MW was because his father stifled his progress. Roy didn't start making waves until he split from his father and signed with HBO in 1992. After he'd beaten Bernard, he wanted the biggest fight out there which was Toney.

When most boxing fans debate fantasy fights at MW, like yourself they struggle how to rate Roy, as like you've alluded to, his best work was at SMW and LHW. But again, just use the version who fought Tate.

In my honest opinion, there'd have been no chance that GG would have knocked out Roy.

Seriously, just look at how easy GG is to hit.

Look at the success that Brook had.

He's easy to hit and he marks up.

Roy was probably the fastest boxer of all time, and he had a 5" reach advantage, with great reflexes and one punch knockout power in either hand. He was bigger, heavier, and he would have found GG EASILY.

Kalan wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:GGG beats Toney wide points, beats Hopkins close points and likely looses to Jones. Jones didn't do much at MW, but I think speed kills.

Something Antonio Tarver pointed out as he was chasing Roy for a fight. "Roy Jones is flashy more than speedy. Anyone can waste energy shuffling their feet, juking their head, and throwing flurries with no power. Some excuse that as showmanship. I call it clowning. It draws the attention from the crowd and the judges, but it's not landing effective punches. Roy will be clowning and I'll be hitting him with hard punches. Toney didn't fight. Toney tried to clown the clown. Roy would do a clown move and Toney would mock the move. I'll be hitting Roy instead. I've got news for you. Roy's not hard to hit if you get after him."

Glen Johnson was another no-nonsense fighter. He was in the best shape of his career and he stayed on Roy's ass from bell to bell... Roy never fought anyone who could apply pressure before he fought Tarver and Johnson---who were both older than Roy. GGG would be on Roy like white on rice. This is Roy's downfall and he admitted after being knocked out by Johnson "I can't brawl" ... What Roy meant is he has no inside game.

This is just complete nonsense.

You obviously never saw Roy's career.

You've got to be out of your mind if you think Johnson would have beaten Roy when he was in his prime.

I love Glen. But he was in the right place at the right time. Roy was never the same after he'd dropped back from HW, and Glen fought a version of Roy who'd had over 50 fights, and who'd just been iced by Tarver just 3 months earlier. Roy should never have taken the fight. But he did because he was embarrassed by the Tarver defeat, and he wanted to eradicate the loss ASAP. That version of Roy was gun shy and his ego had been shattered. The Tarver loss devastated him psychologically.

Roy was a great inside fighter. The way he used to throw double hooks and uppercuts off either hand was a thing of beauty.

It's just laughable to use the Johnson fight as a yardstick for how a GG fight would have played out. It's ridiculous.

GG's head would have been used like a speed ball against Roy at 25.

If you can't see the difference between the versions of Roy at 35 and the versions of Roy at 25, then you need to see an optician.

Kalan,

Roy had the same vulnerabilities as a Middleweight that he had as a Light Heavyweight. He quickly outgrew the division and never fought a good Middleweight who could apply pressure like Gennady Golovkin, Glen Johnson, or Antonio Tarver. Hopkins was a neophyte and not a pressure fighter. Even at Super Middleweight and LHW Roy wasn't challenged. Toney was in the worst shape of his life to that point, and he's a counter puncher.. Griffin was wide open, easy to tag, and he stayed off of you.. Roy was floored by the mediocre De Valle, but his 1st test was Tarver.

Another fantasy post.

It's no good just applying pressure, if you're facing a guy who is bigger, heavier, 5 times faster than you, who also has great variation, a reach advantage, and one punch knockout power in either hand.

You'll be telling us next that Steve Collins would have beaten him.

Griffin wasn't easy to hit. He was awkward. He was a small, defensive, counter puncher.

When Roy went down against Del Valle his back foot slipped on the wet canvas.

loudon wrote:

HyacinthusTurnipseed wrote:Toney comes on strong in the late rounds but it isn't quite enough to stop him from losing a close decision he hotly disputes. Or maybe the late round push means he wins a close decision, I don't know.

RJJ is winning the fight when he gets sickeningly iced out of nowhere in the mid rounds. Or he is able to use his outlier athletic gifts to keep dancin' away from Golovkin's power for all 12 where he wins a decision. But I'd probably go with the first option if I had to pick one.

BHop drops the the second and third rounds (first is feeling out) but after that finds a way to consistently "collapse the pocket" and push GGG back enough to win a close but clear decision. Again, or lose a close decision. Even more than with the other two hypotheticals the precise limits of GGG's potential for adaptability and his specific response to the challenges a Hopkinsesque fighter poses would have to be observed before I could make a clearer prediction. You could say that about all of them but I can't think of a time where anyone has tried pushing GGG back (more explosively than Lemieux anyway), constantly grabbing and wrestling and roughing him up, Maybe even chucking in a few borderline fouls. Not everyone responds well to that stuff.

Gun to my head:
GGG W MD12 Toney
GGG W KO7 RJJ
GGG L UD12 Hopkins

I can't envisage how Roy would just have gotten iced out of nowhere.

I'm a very big fan of GG's, he's a great fighter, but it seems completely unrealistic.

Really? Disagreeing is fine but not even being able to envisage? When Tarver (okay a big, natural Light Heavyweight and very good overall. Doesn't have the offensive weaponry of GGG though) and Glen Johnson (former Middleweight. Not much more than decent power puncher) were able to do so not all that far out of RJJ's prime?

Certainly RJJ is good enough to prove me wrong but I just don't think you can afford to be as vulnerable as I believe RJJ always was for 12 rounds and survive against GGG however good you are.

HyacinthusTurnipseed,

Really? Disagreeing is fine but not even being able to envisage? When Tarver (okay a big, natural Light Heavyweight and very good overall. Doesn't have the offensive weaponry of GGG though) and Glen Johnson (former Middleweight. Not much more than decent power puncher) were able to do so not all that far out of RJJ's prime?

Certainly RJJ is good enough to prove me wrong but I just don't think you can afford to be as vulnerable as I believe RJJ always was for 12 rounds and survive against GGG however good you are.

No, I can't envisage it mate. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it, but no, I don't agree.

The losses to Tarver and Johnson don't come in to play at all when discussing a hypothetical match up with with GG at MW, because they were two completely different versions of Roy, and GG, Tarver and Johnson are nothing alike.

Life you've noted, Tarver was a 6'2 southpaw, with a 75" reach, who weighed about 185 pounds, facing a version of Roy who'd fought 50 fights and who'd just dropped back from HW.

Glen Johnson was a very strong LHW who matched Roy for height and reach, and he faced Roy just a few months after Tarver had iced him.

You've got to instead concentrate on a H2H fight between Roy when he was at MW at 25, and the current version of GG.

Roy was bigger and heavier, and he'd have had a 5" reach advantage, a huge speed advantage, and he'd have been much harder to hit.

GG is easy to hit and he marks up. Roy was far too fast for him and he'd have found him without any issue. It's just far too early to favour GG over a prime version of Roy. I love the guy, but he hasn't done much yet. (through no fault of his own)

Kalan,

There's nothing at Middleweight to draw on for Roy Jones... Roy fought 2 Middleweight Title Fights: a fledging Hopkins who still had technical problems and who didn't attack anybody, and Thomas Tate, a guy who also didn't attack. You need a better representation of Title Fights than that. Toney has a good representation of Middleweight Title fights and would probably do better, but be out worked.

Roy had the same attributes at SMW as what he had at MW.

Roy was in his prime at 25 when he fought Thomas Tate.

It doesn't matter that he didn't have numerous MW title fights.

We know how great he was.

loudon wrote:We know how capable Roy was at MW.

We saw him beat Bernard with a fractured hand, we saw him knock out Malinga, and we saw him ice Thomas Tate in just 2 rounds.

He knocked out Tate in 1994, when he was 25 years old, just 6 months before he moved up to SMW to face Toney. The version of Roy who fought Toney, was essentially the same fighter who fought Tate, just slightly heavier.

The reason why Roy didn't make a huge name for himself at MW was because his father stifled his progress. Roy didn't start making waves until he split from his father and signed with HBO in 1992. After he'd beaten Bernard, he wanted the biggest fight out therewhich was Toney.

When most boxing fans debate fantasy fights at MW, like yourself they struggle how to rate Roy, as like you've alluded to, his best work was at SMW and LHW. But again, just use the version who fought Tate.

In my honest opinion, there'd have been no chance that GG would have knocked out Roy.

Seriously, just look at how easy GG is to hit.

Look at the success that Brook had.

He's easy to hit and he marks up.

Roy was probably the fastest boxer of all time, and he had a 5" reach advantage, with great reflexes and one punch knockout power in either hand. He was bigger, heavier, and he would have found GG EASILY.

I picked Roy by stoppage for this exact reason.
Crazy how Roy is being revised into a normal fighter.

"BAD INTENTIONS",

I picked Roy by stoppage for this exact reason.
Crazy how Roy is being revised into a normal fighter.

Yeah. It seems crazy to me how anybody would have favoured GG over Roy. And I say that as a big fan of GG's.

My two cents haha.

Toney UD win. Toney would out land and counter him, picking his spots.Watch GGG Kassim Ouma, he struggles with relentless inside pressure, which smother his punches like, the kind of fight Toney invites. Toneys is also very slick on the outside, doesn't present with much of a target.

I think he has a very good chance against Roy. More than a punchers chance. Pressure and chin arguments I agree with but he needs to catch Roy and theres were his stalking ring cutting footwork may elevate him.

Hopkins...this ones to hard for me to decide. Draw.

My question would be if I have ever seen Jones, Hopkins and Toney fight a guy that hits so hard as GGG.

loudon wrote:

Kalan wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:GGG beats Toney wide points, beats Hopkins close points and likely looses to Jones. Jones didn't do much at MW, but I think speed kills.

Something Antonio Tarver pointed out as he was chasing Roy for a fight. "Roy Jones is flashy more than speedy. Anyone can waste energy shuffling their feet, juking their head, and throwing flurries with no power. Some excuse that as showmanship. I call it clowning. It draws the attention from the crowd and the judges, but it's not landing effective punches. Roy will be clowning and I'll be hitting him with hard punches. Toney didn't fight. Toney tried to clown the clown. Roy would do a clown move and Toney would mock the move. I'll be hitting Roy instead. I've got news for you. Roy's not hard to hit if you get after him."

Glen Johnson was another no-nonsense fighter. He was in the best shape of his career and he stayed on Roy's ass from bell to bell... Roy never fought anyone who could apply pressure before he fought Tarver and Johnson---who were both older than Roy. GGG would be on Roy like white on rice. This is Roy's downfall and he admitted after being knocked out by Johnson "I can't brawl" ... What Roy meant is he has no inside game.

This is just complete nonsense.

You obviously never saw Roy's career.

You've got to be out of your mind if you think Johnson would have beaten Roy when he was in his prime.

I love Glen. But he was in the right place at the right time. Roy was never the same after he'd dropped back from HW, and Glen fought a version of Roy who'd had over 50 fights, and who'd just been iced by Tarver just 3 months earlier. Roy should never have taken the fight. But he did because he was embarrassed by the Tarver defeat, and he wanted to eradicate the loss ASAP. That version of Roy was gun shy and his ego had been shattered. The Tarver loss devastated him psychologically.

Roy was a great inside fighter. The way he used to throw double hooks and uppercuts off either hand was a thing of beauty.

It's just laughable to use the Johnson fight as a yardstick for how a GG fight would have played out. It's ridiculous.

GG's head would have been used like a speed ball against Roy at 25.

If you can't see the difference between the versions of Roy at 35 and the versions of Roy at 25, then you need to see an optician.

I agree with much of what you have written here. But, the great Roy Jones, Jr was never a great inside fighter. I don't recall he ever fought inside with any opponent. But, I do recall that he was very fast and had great reflexes and unbelievable mix of speed and power even going up in weight.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Hopkins (2003) wins by UD. 12-0
Who is the best defensive fighter GGG has faced?
Compare him to Hopkins. I can't see how GGG deals with Hopkins movement.
Especially without any size advantage.
By that point, Hopkins could take away one of your hands for the entire fight.
GGG, with no right hand, dealing with Hopkins movement/skill.

Roy Jones Jr (1994) wins by stoppage.
Roy had too much agility for GGG.
Faster and more skilled than Brook.
More power than any opponent GGG has faced.

James Toney (1991-1993) wins, somehow.
Between 1991 to 1993, Toney did:
Sosa (SD), Nunn (TKO), Johnson (SD), McCallum (D), Tiberi (SD), McCallum (MD)
Toney just knew how to win, and did so against some good fighters.
Also, GGG's poor development against defensive fighters would cost him many rounds.

There's no way Hopkins gets away from GGG, who's an expert at cutting off the ring... Hop would be badly outworked, outjabbed, and overpowered... Chinny guys like Jermain Taylor, who beat Hopkins, would be gone in a couple rounds with Golovkin... GGG has no right hand??? You're insane man... Nobuhiro Ishida had never been knocked out before, and he fought hard punchers like James Kirkland and Dmitry Pirog... GGG sent Ishida to intensive care with 1 brutal short right in the 3rd round... Ishida fell like he was shot dead.

Roy Jones stops Gennady Golovkin??? ... Roy has been knocked down and out numerous times... Nobody has ever even knocked Golovkin down... And Roy is agile??? ... Roy has a wide stance, which makes him a little low and a little slow.. He's a little stiff through the shoulders.. and carries his hands a little low.. The combination makes him vulnerable to sharp straight punches -- and GGG has those weapons in spades.

Toney is lazy and can have a low work rate... He lost to guys like Montel Griffin and Drake Thadzi, who would be quick work for Golovkin.

Kalan wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Hopkins (2003) wins by UD. 12-0
Who is the best defensive fighter GGG has faced?
Compare him to Hopkins. I can't see how GGG deals with Hopkins movement.
Especially without any size advantage.
By that point, Hopkins could take away one of your hands for the entire fight.
GGG, with no right hand, dealing with Hopkins movement/skill.

Roy Jones Jr (1994) wins by stoppage.
Roy had too much agility for GGG.
Faster and more skilled than Brook.
More power than any opponent GGG has faced.

James Toney (1991-1993) wins, somehow.
Between 1991 to 1993, Toney did:
Sosa (SD), Nunn (TKO), Johnson (SD), McCallum (D), Tiberi (SD), McCallum (MD)
Toney just knew how to win, and did so against some good fighters.
Also, GGG's poor development against defensive fighters would cost him many rounds.

There's no way Hopkins gets away from GGG, who's an expert at cutting off the ring... Hop would be badly outworked, outjabbed, and overpowered... Chinny guys like Jermain Taylor, who beat Hopkins, would be gone in a couple rounds with Golovkin... GGG has no right hand??? You're insane man... Nobuhiro Ishida had never been knocked out before, and he fought hard punchers like James Kirkland and Dmitry Pirog... GGG sent Ishida to intensive care with 1 brutal short right in the 3rd round... Ishida fell like he was shot dead.

Roy Jones stops Gennady Golovkin??? ... Roy has been knocked down and out numerous times... Nobody has ever even knocked Golovkin down... And Roy is agile??? ... Roy has a wide stance, which makes him a little low and a little slow.. He's a little stiff through the shoulders.. and carries his hands a little low.. The combination makes him vulnerable to sharp straight punches -- and GGG has those weapons in spades.

Toney is lazy and can have a low work rate... He lost to guys like Montel Griffin and Drake Thadzi, who would be quick work for Golovkin.

... and he walks on water.

GGG has made it to that level.

Be serious... When you have no argument or reply that makes sense -- that is the garbage you stoop to.. Whenever it rains I walk on water.. That's because it becomes really wet all over the sidewalk.. You never asked how much water I walked on.

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golden oldie,

Funny how you harp on about the 25 year old Jones, yet you also make a big deal about how the 34 year old GGG was easily hit by Brook.

Hmmm.

Fact is you can't put muscles on a chin, and RJJ NEVER faced a 160 pound guy who hit like Golovkin. So yeah he could be iced by the Kazakhstan.

Facts are RJJ had 2 world title fights at 160, and stopped one guy. Golovkin has had 16 title fights and stopped ALL of them.

I refer to Roy at 25, because that was the best version of him at MW.

GG is currently 34.

If you want to look at a fantasy fight against the best MW versions of each fighter, then unfortunately, it's Roy at 25 vs the current version of GG. That's just the way it is.

You can't put muscles on chin? Correct.

Yes, Roy never faced anyone at 160 who could hit as hard as GG. And? Does that automatically mean that GG would have beaten him?

So what if GG has had 16 world title fights to Roy's 2?

Don't compare stats, use your judgement based on each fighters style and attributes. Statistics don't allow for circumstances. Roy dropped the belt after just 1 defence because he moved up to fight James Toney. It means nothing. And what do you think would have happened if Roy had faced the same 16 guys that GG has faced in his defences?

Look at Roy's huge advantages in speed and reflexes. Look at his one punch knockout power, and his variation, timing and accuracy.

I'm a huge fan of GG's. But I wouldn't care if he'd made 50 MW title defences. He's easy to hit and he marks up. There's no way he'd have beaten Roy. Yes, IF he could have landed clean on Roy, he could have taken him out. But that applies to just about any fighter in any division. The question is: What would have been the chances of him doing so?

Roy at his peak would have been an awful match up for GG stylistically. Again, if Brook could tag him at will, Roy would have had a Birthday.

Forget stats and use your eyes.

lazboy wrote:My two cents haha.

Toney UD win. Toney would out land and counter him, picking his spots.Watch GGG Kassim Ouma, he struggles with relentless inside pressure, which smother his punches like, the kind of fight Toney invites. Toneys is also very slick on the outside, doesn't present with much of a target.

I think he has a very good chance against Roy. More than a punchers chance. Pressure and chin arguments I agree with but he needs to catch Roy and theres were his stalking ring cutting footwork may elevate him.

Hopkins...this ones to hard for me to decide. Draw.

I respect your opinion, but look how fast and skilled Roy was, and look at how easy GG is to hit.

It would have been target practice.

elmersalsa wrote:My question would be if I have ever seen Jones, Hopkins and Toney fight a guy that hits so hard as GGG.

At MW, probably not. But GG hasn't faced anyone of their calibre.

elmersalsa,

I agree with much of what you have written here. But, the great Roy Jones, Jr was never a great inside fighter. I don't recall he ever fought inside with any opponent. But, I do recall that he was very fast and had great reflexes and unbelievable mix of speed and power even going up in weight.

Whenever anyone thinks of an inside fighter, they think of someone in the centre of the ring, fighting up close and out of a clinch etc. Someone like James Toney. Roy didn't fight in that manner, because for the most part, he was in full control of his fights and he used his incredible speed to come in and out. However, in many of his fights, he voluntarily backed himself into the ropes and into the corners, where he displayed the great skills that guys like Toney did. Did you not see where he used to lay right back on the ropes and throw double uppercuts and hooks from just a few inches away? It was a thing of beauty.

golden oldie,

The reality is NONE of those 3 ever faced a guy who hit as hard as GGG at 160. Golovkin is arguably a better puncher technically than Kovalev, who had Hopkins in serious trouble at L/ Heavy ( no matter how old he was )

Bernard would have tasted that power and tried to spoil and foul his way to victory, claiming he won despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

RJJ could be iced at any given time by that sort of power. Triple G's chin has held up perfectly well in his 36 fights at Middle.

Similarly Toney would be forced to think every minute of every round due to said power. Finally getting an MD win over 36 year old Mike McCallum at 160, or being well behind against the relatively light hitting Nunn before finding the winning punch isn't the kind of stuff that sees him beating the very good, and very clever as well as extremely powerful GGG.

Fact is these guys are simply American " names " because of what they did in their total careers, not just at 160.

The reality is:

As great as GG looks, he's unproven against guys of the calibre of Roy, Toney and Hopkins.

So what if Toney was behind against Nunn?

So what if he had close fights with McCallum?

Think about what you've typed.

They were GREAT fighters.

How would GG have fared against the version of Nunn that Toney fought? How the hell do we know? That would have been a very hard fight for GG. Michael Nunn was a great boxer, and he was also a southpaw, who was 6'1 with a 77" reach. Think about that for a moment. GG is easy to hit, and Nunn would have had a 7" reach advantage.

Toney being behind against Nunn, wouldn't have seen him beat GG? Oh my.