BoxRec

It's the winner of Ward vs Kovalev for me for top spot.

Looking good against nobodies is not something I'm interested in. I care more for who someone has beaten, and the manner they were beaten.

If Ward beats kovalev it's him

Horse wrote:

daviddee wrote:Hoping he moves up to lightweight soon to take that title once he does that he moves into the top 3.. He in my eyes will end up being p4p number 1.. Best actual boxer in the world

Weight-jumping, cherry-picking garbage.

Why can't he stay where he is and unify?

Bit shocked with your comment there Horse.. Lomachenko is on the older side and I'm sure they want to cement his legacy so moving through the weight to be a 4 - 5 weight World Champion.. There is no one who can beat him at Super Feather or Lightweight why waste time.. Couple of Competitive fights at light welter which I feel he would win.. He should fight any champion at lightweight then unify and light welter then hopefully one of the big names at Welter..

Ward Loma and canelo are my top 3

Golovkin, Gonzalez and Crawford for me. The winner of Ward v Kovalev would probably enter above Crawford until he gets another big win.

daviddee wrote:Bit shocked with your comment there Horse.. Lomachenko is on the older side and I'm sure they want to cement his legacy so moving through the weight to be a 4 - 5 weight World Champion..

I don't care about those sorts of statistics. Beating good opposition is what matters.

Picking on the weakest champion before moving up to another weight class is pathetic.

daviddee wrote:There is no one who can beat him at Super Feather or Lightweight why waste time..

To find out if that is actually true.

daviddee wrote:Couple of Competitive fights at light welter which I feel he would win.. He should fight any champion at lightweight then unify and light welter then hopefully one of the big names at Welter..

I don't think Lomachenko is as good as you think he is.

Taansend wrote:You can tell us why if you like or just pick three from the list.

Just who you think are the top three boxers, Pound for Pound, at the moment.

I've put nine options (I'm guessing you can only do ten for a poll) so if you think it's Yamanaka, Frampton, Stevenson, Fury, Lara or someone else I've missed completely, please let us know.

I'll be honest I don't really believe in P4P its bit of fantasy for us boxing fans, lots of IF's & BUT's involved but purely based on the last 12-24 months

Fury
Kovalev
(Frampton) but hesitant to put him 3rd

Ward is clear P4P #1 in my book.

2nd and 3rd spots are harder to choose, i like Crawford and Kovalev. In my book Ward v Kovalev are fighting it out for the #1 spot.

I like GGG as much as the next guy, but until he beats true elite oponents i cant rate him top 3 P4P. Lemuix and Brook just wont do it in my book.

daviddee wrote:

Horse wrote:

daviddee wrote:Hoping he moves up to lightweight soon to take that title once he does that he moves into the top 3.. He in my eyes will end up being p4p number 1.. Best actual boxer in the world

Weight-jumping, cherry-picking garbage.

Why can't he stay where he is and unify?

Bit shocked with your comment there Horse.. Lomachenko is on the older side and I'm sure they want to cement his legacy so moving through the weight to be a 4 - 5 weight World Champion.. There is no one who can beat him at Super Feather or Lightweight why waste time.. Couple of Competitive fights at light welter which I feel he would win.. He should fight any champion at lightweight then unify and light welter then hopefully one of the big names at Welter..

The guy is 5'6" and only just had his first fight at 130lb.
I'm a huge fan and think he is immensely talented but I think it's a bit early to say he is going to win 147lb titles.

He never proved he was no1 at Feather, he's got work to do to be no1 at SFW (I don't think anyone there beats him, but Walter might give him a headache). To say he should unify at LW, then move on and win titles at LWW and WW is a big big ask.

At his height and at 28 years of age, he won't naturally grow into these divisions. He will need prime Pacquiao levels of ability.
That's a big statement but not unimaginable, as he is absolutely crammed full of natural boxing ability and skill but one thing Pacquiao had was heavy heavy hands at lower weight classes and he carried enough of that up with him to get by against bigger guys.
He also showed near super human hand speed at those higher weight classes, which Loma does not possess, he's quick but it's more down to timing reactions and quickness of thought with Loma, he doesn't have that blurring hand speed and will only get slower as he gets heavier and older.

I think Lightweight should be his target, after a year or so at SFW. And I'd stay there.
I don't think there will be the names at 140lb to justify the risk and 147 is just a massive stretch, I honestly can't see him ever campaigning at that weight

Stu and Davie have posted really intelligent, reasoned analysis there.

I've always disliked the P4P debate, as it's utterly subjective and based on the the personal views of those writing it. We've been through times where it's been unquestionable at the number 1, Jones (back a while), Maywearher for a long time.

My own views:

1. Chocalito - fabulous in all he does, goes through the weights, uses the same strategy for all his fights, which is pretty simple, but it works.

2. GGG - a truly brilliant inside fighter, owns his weight class which has been, historically the Marquee division of boxing.

3. Ward. If he had fought more often, he wouldn't be in number 3, and if he wins impressively, he has the right to 1.

I

kbackup408 wrote:

Taansend wrote:You can tell us why if you like or just pick three from the list.

Just who you think are the top three boxers, Pound for Pound, at the moment.

I've put nine options (I'm guessing you can only do ten for a poll) so if you think it's Yamanaka, Frampton, Stevenson, Fury, Lara or someone else I've missed completely, please let us know.

I'll be honest I don't really believe in P4P its bit of fantasy for us boxing fans, lots of IF's & BUT's involved but purely based on the last 12-24 months

Fury
Kovalev
(Frampton) but hesitant to put him 3rd

Cheers Mate,

It's not something that's of great importance to me (nor is Greatest of all Time etc) but there's no clear stand out for me at the moment so I just wanted to see wat others tough.

Golovkin, Gonzalez & Kovalev for me.

Loynesy wrote:Stu and Davie have posted really intelligent, reasoned analysis there.

I've always disliked the P4P debate, as it's utterly subjective and based on the the personal views of those writing it. We've been through times where it's been unquestionable at the number 1, Jones (back a while), Maywearher for a long time.

My own views:

1. Chocalito - fabulous in all he does, goes through the weights, uses the same strategy for all his fights, which is pretty simple, but it works.

2. GGG - a truly brilliant inside fighter, owns his weight class which has been, historically the Marquee division of boxing.

3. Ward. If he had fought more often, he wouldn't be in number 3, and if he wins impressively, he has the right to 1.

I

My top 3 aswell except I have Ward #2 and GGG #3.

I see the p4p lists drifting more and more to be based on wins or good wins should I say.How much would these lists differ if it was based purely on boxing ability?

Some of these fighters have been ducked for years and will probably never end up reaching where they should be due to other champions refusing to fight them.

How much higher would Golovkin be?Is Chocolatito as skilled all round as a Lomachenko or a Rigondeaux?

I really want to place Rigo in that top 3,ok hes knocking on now but who knows howgood he could have been and more importantly how much more would he be rated by boxing fans?

Loynesy wrote:Stu and Davie have posted really intelligent, reasoned analysis there.

I've always disliked the P4P debate, as it's utterly subjective and based on the the personal views of those writing it. We've been through times where it's been unquestionable at the number 1, Jones (back a while), Maywearher for a long time.

My own views:

1. Chocalito - fabulous in all he does, goes through the weights, uses the same strategy for all his fights, which is pretty simple, but it works.

2. GGG - a truly brilliant inside fighter, owns his weight class which has been, historically the Marquee division of boxing.

3. Ward. If he had fought more often, he wouldn't be in number 3, and if he wins impressively, he has the right to 1.

I

That's might top 3 also, in the same order. It is though a shame we are going through such a transitionary period. For me, the P4P top 10 should always comprise of 10 guys who with such as resume and talent can be talked about in historical terms with the best of the division. I remember in the early 2000 I had Tszyu at 10 in the P4P rankings. Now we are looking at hugely untested fighters. I like Keith Thurman and rate him highly, but compare his resume to that of Tszyu of 2000.

I take P4P to mean that if they were all the same weight then who would be the best boxer. I went GGG, Rigo and Gonzalez. Lomachenko should have been in there though.

1. Kovalev
2. Frampton
3. Fury

Finn wrote:1. Kovalev
2. Frampton
3. Fury

Just curious, how is it that you say GGG is massively overhyped for being ranked as one of the top P4P fighters, while at the same time you have Frampton all the way up at #2?

Is LSC, Quigg, and Kiko that much better than Murray, Lemieux, Geale, Macklin, etc., especially considering how much more one-sided the GGG fights were? What about Frampton hitting the deck twice against Gonzalez, who incidentally lost his last fight to an EBU level fighter?

In no particular order ...

Fury
Ward/kovalev
Golovkin or Crawford - both of these guys are very good and very dominant in their respective divisions but the opposition has not been great.

crusader wrote:

Finn wrote:1. Kovalev
2. Frampton
3. Fury

Just curious, how is it that you say GGG is massively overhyped for being ranked as one of the top P4P fighters, while at the same time you have Frampton all the way up at #2?

Is LSC, Quigg, and Kiko that much better than Murray, Lemieux, Geale, Macklin, etc., especially considering how much more one-sided the GGG fights were? What about Frampton hitting the deck twice against Gonzalez, who incidentally lost his last fight to an EBU level fighter?

Unified world super bantam champion and world featherweight champion (beating the division number 1) v Middleweight unified 3 belt champion who didn't get the chance to fight sturm or Martinez who were the top 2 fighters in the division.

It's not GGGs fault that he hasn't faced the best in the middle weight through avoidance but I can't give him credit for fights he hasn't had.

Kovalev is number one imo because he has beaten the number 1 in Hopkins as well as well as all the contenders in a very competitive division. I'd give the position to Andre ward because I think he has the potential to be the P4P number 1 but again he hasn't faced anyone of late. If he beats kovalev he gets that spot imo.

Finn wrote:

crusader wrote:

Finn wrote:1. Kovalev
2. Frampton
3. Fury

Just curious, how is it that you say GGG is massively overhyped for being ranked as one of the top P4P fighters, while at the same time you have Frampton all the way up at #2?

Is LSC, Quigg, and Kiko that much better than Murray, Lemieux, Geale, Macklin, etc., especially considering how much more one-sided the GGG fights were? What about Frampton hitting the deck twice against Gonzalez, who incidentally lost his last fight to an EBU level fighter?

Unified world super bantam champion and world featherweight champion (beating the division number 1) v Middleweight unified 3 belt champion who didn't get the chance to fight sturm or Martinez who were the top 2 fighters in the division.

It's not GGGs fault that he hasn't faced the best in the middle weight through avoidance but I can't give him credit for fights he hasn't had.

Kovalev is number one imo because he has beaten the number 1 in Hopkins as well as well as all the contenders in a very competitive division. I'd give the position to Andre ward because I think he has the potential to be the P4P number 1 but again he hasn't faced anyone of late. If he beats kovalev he gets that spot imo.

I just don't see a huge gap in their quality of opposition, and GGG has won far more convincingly, without seriously struggling against a fringe-contender in the way Frampton did a few bouts ago. I'd also ask what Quigg, whom pushed Frampton very close, has done to make it clear that he's significantly better than anyone GGG has beaten

If Frampton is #2, it's not at all unreasonable to have GGG as one of the top P4P fighters as well.

LSC, Quigg (split decision), Kiko, Alejandro Gonzalez (Frampton down twice), Avalos, Parodi, Cazares, Molitor (shot), Hilares

vs

All knockouts; GGG never down; no one ahead of him at time of stoppage:

Murray, Lemieux, Macklin, Geale, Monroe, Stevens, Rubio, Proksa, Adamu, Brook (coming up from 147, but I'd say he was better than past prime former champs Molitor and Cazarez, the latter of whom used to campaign at 108)

crusader wrote:

Finn wrote:

crusader wrote:
Just curious, how is it that you say GGG is massively overhyped for being ranked as one of the top P4P fighters, while at the same time you have Frampton all the way up at #2?

Is LSC, Quigg, and Kiko that much better than Murray, Lemieux, Geale, Macklin, etc., especially considering how much more one-sided the GGG fights were? What about Frampton hitting the deck twice against Gonzalez, who incidentally lost his last fight to an EBU level fighter?

Unified world super bantam champion and world featherweight champion (beating the division number 1) v Middleweight unified 3 belt champion who didn't get the chance to fight sturm or Martinez who were the top 2 fighters in the division.

It's not GGGs fault that he hasn't faced the best in the middle weight through avoidance but I can't give him credit for fights he hasn't had.

Kovalev is number one imo because he has beaten the number 1 in Hopkins as well as well as all the contenders in a very competitive division. I'd give the position to Andre ward because I think he has the potential to be the P4P number 1 but again he hasn't faced anyone of late. If he beats kovalev he gets that spot imo.

I just don't see a huge gap in their quality of opposition, and GGG has won far more convincingly, without seriously struggling against a fringe-contender in the way Frampton did a few bouts ago. I'd also ask what Quigg, whom pushed Frampton very close, has done to make it clear that he's significantly better than anyone GGG has beaten

If Frampton is #2, it's not at all unreasonable to have GGG as one of the top P4P fighters as well.

Disagree frampton has done the business at 2 weights. Having a bad night when struggling with hydration doesn't change the fact he won the fight. LSC is far far better opposition than anyone GGG has faced, Murray's never won a world title never mind won 3 of them in 3 different divisions and been ranked as a P4P top 10 fighter, I think LCS was even ranked number 3 on boxrec at the time. Geale lost to barker who very easily beaten by sturm and Martinez, and Lemieux was a world title holder by default. I'd go as far as say quigg is probably equal or better than anyone GGG has faced.

I also don't personally believe GGG could move up a weight and beat Ramirez or Degale. I think he would struggle with Groves and Smith too.

Roman Gonzalez
Sergey Kovalev
Gennady Golovkin

In that order.

Loynesy wrote:Stu and Davie have posted really intelligent, reasoned analysis there.

May I return the compliment and say, you are clearly a wise and knowledgeable man

Supremo wrote:I take P4P to mean that if they were all the same weight then who would be the best boxer. I went GGG, Rigo and Gonzalez. Lomachenko should have been in there though.

That's how I see it, P4P should be talent based and determined by how good you really believe someone is
ATG should be based on achievement and resume IMO
but the argument can always come back that they perhaps aren't as good as they look. Until they have tested themselves against the best, how do you know they are not being flattered by smashing out sub-par opposition. Anthony Joshua might be the best heavyweight who ever lived (he isn't by the way) but I'm not about to proclaim him the greatest after knocking Charles Martin about like an empty tracksuit

LancashireLoyal wrote:I see the p4p lists drifting more and more to be based on wins or good wins should I say.How much would these lists differ if it was based purely on boxing ability?

Much the same as above, poor matchmaking finds us in a difficult spot where we don't get to see the fights that give us the evidence we need to truly rate some of these fighters. There's a solid argument for the fighters Supremo quoted above, along with Ward, simply on true ability over resume, but politics, poor matchmaking and blatant duckers, mean we often down grade these guys because they are not delivering the big wins.