BoxRec

I'm not sure your wrong on that, But Patterson's chin could make it very unpredictable.

Are you intending to imply that Patterson was as big a puncher as Rocky? Or just that his speed somewhat nullifies Rocky's advantage?

Also....to dismiss Archie's KO power by mentioning that he started as a welter is borderline goofy.
We all start out smaller than we end up. Don't we?

You're a complete nutcase BuzzBox, and I mean that sincerely... To point out that Archie Moore was not a big LIght Heavyweight (Charles beat him 3 times and Moore had numerous other defeats which included getting knocked out)... and that he started his pro career at Welterweight... and that he knocked Marciano down while Floyd Patterson walked right through Archie and very easily defeated him in much less time, is just showing the caliber of fighter who Marciano struggled with and is not at all goofy... You just can't get your brain around anything but myth, legend, hype, and generational bias, which you're infected with...

Just how do you get to a fight between Floyd Patterson and Archie Moore to determine the world's premier Heavyweight??? Wasn't there a better opponent than an old, worn out Light Heavyweight??? To say the Heavyweight Division was weak in the 1950's is like saying snow is usually white.

I suppose I am rather complete, but this is not about me.

You are fringe, and fringe looks good on women in the topless bars, but it is out of place in a serious boxing discussion.

Many of us here like to chew on a straw and discuss these things in an informal, and friendly manner, and I'm thinking about having your straw re-possessed.

Besides that, your certainty is unsettling, some of this stuff is anyone's guess, especially when two very good fighters get into a ring. Chaos is one of the leading dynamics in a fight, and though you do seem to have a chaotic mind, you don't seem to see much that is not predictable and measurable, albeit by your own unique set of weights and measurements.

Would the best Marciano be as vulnerable to Floyd as the aging version of the Rock that would have shown up to a Patterson fight?

Just wondering what your take is on that. You are just so outstanding when it comes to mixing your apples and oranges, that it's my guess you probably make a first class fruit punch.

I love Rocky, but I don't know if he could have won. That being said, Liston would have had to of taken a lunch with him. He'd have his work cut out for him to get rid of Marciano. Rocky had no fear and no respect for Liston. He had him figured out and pegged long before many people did saying in interviews: "He's a bully, and if someone stands up to him, they will beat him," and the prophecy rang true with Muhammad Ali. Styles make fights, yes.... Rocky would have had a better chance against Ali than he would have had against a Foreman or Liston type.... and thats the truth.

I've interviewed many people, Chuck Wepner included, who said Liston in the late 1970's hit HARDER than Foreman did. And Chuck fought them both. Liston was more precise, had a better jab, was light on his feet for a big guy, etc. I often think had Ali not existed, that Liston could have been champion for a decade, probably until Joe Frazier came around. But who knows. I am a Rocky Marciano fanatic, but if Rocky was to win, it'd have to be early---- or he'd have to extend Liston into the "championship" rounds, and with his skin tearing as easy as it did, I can't see Rocky winning. He'd lose on a TKO.

Only in an era like Johnson and Jefferies, could Marciano win, when cuts and such things were non-issues (if it went that long).

HH, what's your take on the Patterson Marciano take of Kalan's?

BoxBuzz wrote:I suppose I am rather complete, but this is not about me.

You are fringe, and fringe looks good on women in the topless bars, but it is out of place in a serious boxing discussion.

Many of us here like to chew on a straw and discuss these things in an informal, and friendly manner, and I'm thinking about having your straw re-possessed.

Besides that, your certainty is unsettling, some of this stuff is anyone's guess, especially when two very good fighters get into a ring. Chaos is one of the leading dynamics in a fight, and though you do seem to have a chaotic mind, you don't seem to see much that is not predictable and measurable, albeit by your own unique set of weights and measurements.

Would the best Marciano be as vulnerable to Floyd as the aging version of the Rock that would have shown up to a Patterson fight?

Just wondering what your take is on that. You are just so outstanding when it comes to mixing your apples and oranges, that it's my guess you probably make a first class fruit punch.

BuzzBox, if you had a brain in your head I would get my straw out...demonstrate that sometime.. Saying things are anybody's guess is not seeing CLEAR CUT data in front of your eyes... It's believing in every myth and legend ever invented about the old timers.. A lot of people thought Patterson was going to beat Liston.. That's anybody's guess right??? ... But how was Patterson actually going to do that??? ... Liston's arms were twice as big and much longer. He was brutally strong and rock solid. He was 25 pounds heavier. He had a better jab and he was a better puncher. He was a bigger, stronger, tougher man and maybe he was aging a bit... but how young do you have to be to go 2 minutes into the 1st round.

Another example to me was how many people were convinced Joe Frazier was going to have an easy time with George Foreman... They weren't thinking obviously.. Neither were real good boxers right??? Both got hit a lot right??? Both relied on their physical toughness and strength to bully their opponents right??? Was Foreman a formidable fighter or not??? Who was much bigger, taller, stronger, and younger than the other one??? Who punched harder??? It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's never fought a single big, tall, strong, solid, brutal powerhouse puncher in his whole career.. Or who in the whole Heavyweight Division was his worst nightmare.. You act like things like this are just an opinion instead of iron clad facts.

Kalan wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I suppose I am rather complete, but this is not about me.

You are fringe, and fringe looks good on women in the topless bars, but it is out of place in a serious boxing discussion.

Many of us here like to chew on a straw and discuss these things in an informal, and friendly manner, and I'm thinking about having your straw re-possessed.

Besides that, your certainty is unsettling, some of this stuff is anyone's guess, especially when two very good fighters get into a ring. Chaos is one of the leading dynamics in a fight, and though you do seem to have a chaotic mind, you don't seem to see much that is not predictable and measurable, albeit by your own unique set of weights and measurements.

Would the best Marciano be as vulnerable to Floyd as the aging version of the Rock that would have shown up to a Patterson fight?

Just wondering what your take is on that. You are just so outstanding when it comes to mixing your apples and oranges, that it's my guess you probably make a first class fruit punch.

BuzzBox, if you had a brain in your head I would get my straw out...demonstrate that sometime.. Saying things are anybody's guess is not seeing CLEAR CUT data in front of your eyes... It's believing in every myth and legend ever invented about the old timers.. A lot of people thought Patterson was going to beat Liston.. That's anybody's guess right??? ... But how was Patterson actually going to do that??? ... Liston's arms were twice as big and much longer. He was brutally strong and rock solid. He was 25 pounds heavier. He had a better jab and he was a better puncher. He was a bigger, stronger, tougher man and maybe he was aging a bit... but how young do you have to be to go 2 minutes into the 1st round.

Another example to me was how many people were convinced Joe Frazier was going to have an easy time with George Foreman... They weren't thinking obviously.. Neither were real good boxers right??? Both got hit a lot right??? Both relied on their physical toughness and strength to bully their opponents right??? Was Foreman a formidable fighter or not??? Who was much bigger, taller, stronger, and younger than the other one??? Who punched harder??? It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's never fought a single big, tall, strong, solid, brutal powerhouse puncher in his whole career.. Or who in the whole Heavyweight Division was his worst nightmare.. You act like things like this are just an opinion instead of iron clad facts.

Kalan you are about as wise as every other boxing wise guy after the fact.

Well... Ahead of Kovalev-Ward, when everybody said Ward was the better boxer I said Kovalev was better from the outside and had a better jab. People were saying Ward would dominate.. I said that was stupid.. I said would win but there would be a robbery.. Usually in International fights you get a foreign referee, and judges from neutral countries.. I said Kovalev would have to win extremely decisively to get any decision.. I knew what was going on.. I've seen it 100 times before.

Id have to favour liston by ko since he is a solid stone heavier, though they are both great punchers.