BoxRec

ALI wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:I think everyone is a bit quick to jump on Eddie's back here. It is most certainly his business when Sky and the BBC are asking for his opinion. It's also very much his business when his hottest fighter is in the same division, with Fury holding the majority of the belts. He wanted the fight to go ahead so they could line Joshua up with the winner - for obvious reasons.

As far as the mental health issues go, that is obviously a very very serious subject, but there is also certainly a difference between clinical depression, and being fed up because everyone was picking on him. The jury is still out about where Fury's mental issues lie on the spectrum, but you only have to watch the Peter Fury interview, and it seems to me he's more fed up about the witch hunt (which only the Fury's believe is a real thing). Additionally to that, if they do cite depression, and it's not genuine, then that completely undermines what real depression is all about, and the effects it has on people's lives. At the moment all we have to go on is an 'unspecified medical condition' which is vague to say the least. I look forward to hearing what is said in the presser on Tuesday.

Hearn's comments were as far as I am concerned not as bad as everyone is making out. He clearly stated that he presumed this was the position of the sanctioning bodies, which I think few of us would disagree with. Could he of been more tactful with the way he expressed that? Yeah possibly, but this is Tyson Fury, and I think everyone is a bit fed up with his antics.

I sincerely hope it is not clinical depression, and if it is, in Tyson's and the sports best interest, it's best he just steps away from the game and concentrates on making a full recovery.

Very good level headed post.

If they do call depression, then i think the Fury's feel by claiming mental illness (depression) nobody can touch them, sanctioning bodies, media et all.

If he has genuine mental health issues, would he really have shown up at the fight on Saturday laughing and joking, when all the media and fans are speculating what is going on with him? It looks to me like they are pulling a fast one, for whatever reason they wanted/needed to get out of the fight.

ALI wrote:Very good level headed post.

If they do call depression, then i think the Fury's feel by claiming mental illness (depression) nobody can touch them, sanctioning bodies, media et all.

If he has genuine mental health issues, would he really have shown up at the fight on Saturday laughing and joking, when all the media and fans are speculating what is going on with him? It looks to me like they are pulling a fast one, for whatever reason they wanted/needed to get out of the fight.

Rob3_142 wrote:

ALI wrote:Very good level headed post.

If they do call depression, then i think the Fury's feel by claiming mental illness (depression) nobody can touch them, sanctioning bodies, media et all.

If he has genuine mental health issues, would he really have shown up at the fight on Saturday laughing and joking, when all the media and fans are speculating what is going on with him? It looks to me like they are pulling a fast one, for whatever reason they wanted/needed to get out of the fight.

The only thing we have to be careful is that it could well be bipolar, which is still a very serious condition, but at the moment my sympathy is somewhat reserved. He's done a lot to damage the condition of his own situation, which I'm sure if you were to look at all the facts on paper, it wouldn't look good.

Rob3_142 wrote:
it could well be bipolar

ALI wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

ALI wrote:Very good level headed post.

If they do call depression, then i think the Fury's feel by claiming mental illness (depression) nobody can touch them, sanctioning bodies, media et all.

If he has genuine mental health issues, would he really have shown up at the fight on Saturday laughing and joking, when all the media and fans are speculating what is going on with him? It looks to me like they are pulling a fast one, for whatever reason they wanted/needed to get out of the fight.

The only thing we have to be careful is that it could well be bipolar, which is still a very serious condition, but at the moment my sympathy is somewhat reserved. He's done a lot to damage the condition of his own situation, which I'm sure if you were to look at all the facts on paper, it wouldn't look good.

Well thats the thing, they pull out the mental health card and everyone outwardly expresses sympathy, nobody wants to be seen questioning the legitimacy of the claim for fear of being ostracised.

Why on earth was he at Saturday nights show larking around when he knew full well the boxing world was clambering to understand if he is mentally ill?

I pressume if he is medically found to be bipolar he will have his boxing license taken away for life. Anyone know the rules on this?

Controversial wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
it could well be bipolar

I've though that about him for a long time, classic symptoms of bipolar. He will need lifetime medication if that is the case.

rd350lc wrote:

Controversial wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
it could well be bipolar

I've though that about him for a long time, classic symptoms of bipolar. He will need lifetime medication if that is the case.

I would say that too and when he had a breakdown mid-fight in Mcdermott 1 you knew things were not quite right .

Controversial wrote:

rd350lc wrote:

Controversial wrote:
I've though that about him for a long time, classic symptoms of bipolar. He will need lifetime medication if that is the case.

I would say that too and when he had a breakdown mid-fight in Mcdermott 1 you knew things were not quite right .

What round was that?

Rob3_142 wrote:My mind turns to Ronnie O'Sullivan who struggled for years battling depression and mental health issues. I mean he totally lost it in the sporting arena, and was in a very dark place. I mean what a talented individual, but it's taken him a very long time and a hell of a lot of hard work to get to where he is today. It's fantastic to hear him talk back at how he beat his demons, and how strong he's become now, but Fury may well have a long and winding road if this is the case for him.

ILikeBeer wrote:I've not always been a big fan of some of Fury's shenanigans, but if there is a mental health issue here, it seems Hearn was a bit quick to stick the boot in.

Seems the whole thing is just a way of Hearn finding an excuse to duck Klitschko. Like I say, I know I've been critical of Fury before but at least he went and beat Klitschko, in an away fight that in the champions second home. Tyson at least proved me wrong in winning a fight I never thought he would. That at least gained my respect.

Team Hearn on the other hand doesn't seem to want to run the risk of having Joshua fighting anybody he might lose to. Joshua won the title by the beating the biggest fluke champion in the history of the sport. And will continue to make Micky Mouse defences as long as the governing body allows him and the fans keep falling for it enough to buy the PPVs.

Fury can be a bit of a knob, but if this mental illness is legit, it's a bit low for Hearn to put the boot in this quickly, just so he can get his "We're not fighting Klitschko" excuse out of the way quickly.

ALI wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:I think everyone is a bit quick to jump on Eddie's back here. It is most certainly his business when Sky and the BBC are asking for his opinion. It's also very much his business when his hottest fighter is in the same division, with Fury holding the majority of the belts. He wanted the fight to go ahead so they could line Joshua up with the winner - for obvious reasons.

As far as the mental health issues go, that is obviously a very very serious subject, but there is also certainly a difference between clinical depression, and being fed up because everyone was picking on him. The jury is still out about where Fury's mental issues lie on the spectrum, but you only have to watch the Peter Fury interview, and it seems to me he's more fed up about the witch hunt (which only the Fury's believe is a real thing). Additionally to that, if they do cite depression, and it's not genuine, then that completely undermines what real depression is all about, and the effects it has on people's lives. At the moment all we have to go on is an 'unspecified medical condition' which is vague to say the least. I look forward to hearing what is said in the presser on Tuesday.

Hearn's comments were as far as I am concerned not as bad as everyone is making out. He clearly stated that he presumed this was the position of the sanctioning bodies, which I think few of us would disagree with. Could he of been more tactful with the way he expressed that? Yeah possibly, but this is Tyson Fury, and I think everyone is a bit fed up with his antics.

I sincerely hope it is not clinical depression, and if it is, in Tyson's and the sports best interest, it's best he just steps away from the game and concentrates on making a full recovery.

Very good level headed post.

If they do call depression, then i think the Fury's feel by claiming mental illness (depression) nobody can touch them, sanctioning bodies, media et all.

If he has genuine mental health issues, would he really have shown up at the fight on Saturday laughing and joking, when all the media and fans are speculating what is going on with him? It looks to me like they are pulling a fast one, for whatever reason they wanted/needed to get out of the fight.

clopixolacuphase wrote:So my job, for many years now, is to go and assess people with mental illness at crisis point and help figure out what help they need. I also spent years before that working on acute wards and secure units and was in the game since I left school. You can disagree with me but I'm coming at this with plenty of experience.

"Classic bi polar" as some people are labelling Fury, is characterised by extreme highs and lows of mood: but it's not like people are depressed one minute and high the next. The lows can last for weeks or even months and can be extreme, with the sufferer believing they might be responsible for atrocities on TV, feel tremendous guilt, maybe even hear voices (this is not exclusive to schizophrenia) stop washing, stop eating, take to their beds, stop talking, etc. Eventually, they can be gradually brought out of it with medication, but this needs to be closely monitored to prevent them "going the other way"
As we call it and going high.

Again, the highs can last months and the patient can be a tigger like nightmare, not sleeping for days on end, believing they are a genius or a millionaire, a brilliant business man, spending money recklessly (and I don't mean buying a big round in France that you can afford) often ending up in extreme debt or bankrupt, sometimes being extremely violent and aggressive (I once looked after a chap who legend had it rolled a police car in a rage), rambling non stop, grandiosity, preaching in the street, on the tube etc, running around naked. Again, with hospitalisation who heavy medication, eventually the symptoms can be controlled and the patient settles.

They almost always lack "insight", don't believe there is anything wrong with them and stop taking the medication which becomes a revolving cycle of relapses and readmissions, and often the medication that worked before does not work again, and something new has to be tried.

There used to be a diagnosis "rapid cycling bi polar" where people would experience the highs and lows more rapidly, but I have never seen a case in a decade and a half of the job. In short, if you are bi polar you do not go from being so depressed you have to cancel the biggest fight of your life to sitting watching a boxing match grinning and laughing.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I would think Fury suffers from EUPD (emotionally unstable personality disorder). I'm not going to go through it all here, have a google if you want, but sufferers do experience mood swings, feel unwanted, tend to seek validation from others and then push it away, self sabotage, and struggle with their sense of self, often changing their image. They also act out, are attention seekers and can be the most difficult patients to look after. Medication does not really help and psychological treatment is considered the best option, but is hard going, long term and difficult to keep the client engaged in, particularly if they are from a macho background like Fury: they just see the therapy as bollocks and give up. EUPD is almost always as a result of a turbulent and or abusive childhood. PD's aren't "mad"
as such, and it is debatable whether any treatment works for them.

In short, I don't think he's bi polar. I would have bought that he was a depressive, had he not turned up at a boxing match grinning. So he's either taking the piss, or he has a personality disorder (which I think seems likely) and that doesn't mean he can't fight again. Whether he will actually want to is another matter. Obviously the focus of training etc kept him on a somewhat even keel for most of his life, but with his goals fufilled, and the lack of satisfaction that came with it, I can't see him finding focus again and he'll probably become incredibly erratic and off the rails.

Just an opinion. If he starts exhibiting more psychotic symptoms, then I'll change my mind. But I don't think he's bi polar at all. That's a big thing to label somebody. It's a hardcore illness. There are different extremes of course, like Stephen Fry who purports to have a "mild" form of bi polar and I believe is not even medicated? But to me Fury just doesn't fit the bill.

Stuarty30 wrote:IMO Fury will be back. I say that in hope and expectation. Wether they strip him or not is another story. Regardless of who's got the belts everyone knows who the real champion is and it'll remain Fury in the eyes of most fans until he is beaten.

Being sly and a vulture seems to be a prerequisite for being a high level promoter and Hearn is showing his qualities here with this ill informed statement. Bottom line is he doesn't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes same as most of us. He's just guessing and trying to stir the pot with his silly comments. He should show a bit of class and maybe wish the guy well instead of trying to kick him while he's down for his own gain. I understand it's a business but a bit of empathy and class wouldn't go a miss every now and then. The guys showing himself up for what most of us think he is and its poor form.

Rob3_142 wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:IMO Fury will be back. I say that in hope and expectation. Wether they strip him or not is another story. Regardless of who's got the belts everyone knows who the real champion is and it'll remain Fury in the eyes of most fans until he is beaten.

Being sly and a vulture seems to be a prerequisite for being a high level promoter and Hearn is showing his qualities here with this ill informed statement. Bottom line is he doesn't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes same as most of us. He's just guessing and trying to stir the pot with his silly comments. He should show a bit of class and maybe wish the guy well instead of trying to kick him while he's down for his own gain. I understand it's a business but a bit of empathy and class wouldn't go a miss every now and then. The guys showing himself up for what most of us think he is and its poor form.

I'm assuming you haven't actually heard the interview then?

Stuarty30 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

Stuarty30 wrote:IMO Fury will be back. I say that in hope and expectation. Wether they strip him or not is another story. Regardless of who's got the belts everyone knows who the real champion is and it'll remain Fury in the eyes of most fans until he is beaten.

Being sly and a vulture seems to be a prerequisite for being a high level promoter and Hearn is showing his qualities here with this ill informed statement. Bottom line is he doesn't have a clue what's going on behind the scenes same as most of us. He's just guessing and trying to stir the pot with his silly comments. He should show a bit of class and maybe wish the guy well instead of trying to kick him while he's down for his own gain. I understand it's a business but a bit of empathy and class wouldn't go a miss every now and then. The guys showing himself up for what most of us think he is and its poor form.

I'm assuming you haven't actually heard the interview then?

I read a bit on sky web page that's all.

clopixolacuphase wrote:So my job, for many years now, is to go and assess people with mental illness at crisis point and help figure out what help they need. I also spent years before that working on acute wards and secure units and was in the game since I left school. You can disagree with me but I'm coming at this with plenty of experience.

"Classic bi polar" as some people are labelling Fury, is characterised by extreme highs and lows of mood: but it's not like people are depressed one minute and high the next. The lows can last for weeks or even months and can be extreme, with the sufferer believing they might be responsible for atrocities on TV, feel tremendous guilt, maybe even hear voices (this is not exclusive to schizophrenia) stop washing, stop eating, take to their beds, stop talking, etc. Eventually, they can be gradually brought out of it with medication, but this needs to be closely monitored to prevent them "going the other way"
As we call it and going high.

Again, the highs can last months and the patient can be a tigger like nightmare, not sleeping for days on end, believing they are a genius or a millionaire, a brilliant business man, spending money recklessly (and I don't mean buying a big round in France that you can afford) often ending up in extreme debt or bankrupt, sometimes being extremely violent and aggressive (I once looked after a chap who legend had it rolled a police car in a rage), rambling non stop, grandiosity, preaching in the street, on the tube etc, running around naked. Again, with hospitalisation who heavy medication, eventually the symptoms can be controlled and the patient settles.

They almost always lack "insight", don't believe there is anything wrong with them and stop taking the medication which becomes a revolving cycle of relapses and readmissions, and often the medication that worked before does not work again, and something new has to be tried.

There used to be a diagnosis "rapid cycling bi polar" where people would experience the highs and lows more rapidly, but I have never seen a case in a decade and a half of the job. In short, if you are bi polar you do not go from being so depressed you have to cancel the biggest fight of your life to sitting watching a boxing match grinning and laughing.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I would think Fury suffers from EUPD (emotionally unstable personality disorder). I'm not going to go through it all here, have a google if you want, but sufferers do experience mood swings, feel unwanted, tend to seek validation from others and then push it away, self sabotage, and struggle with their sense of self, often changing their image. They also act out, are attention seekers and can be the most difficult patients to look after. Medication does not really help and psychological treatment is considered the best option, but is hard going, long term and difficult to keep the client engaged in, particularly if they are from a macho background like Fury: they just see the therapy as bollocks and give up. EUPD is almost always as a result of a turbulent and or abusive childhood. PD's aren't "mad"
as such, and it is debatable whether any treatment works for them.

In short, I don't think he's bi polar. I would have bought that he was a depressive, had he not turned up at a boxing match grinning. So he's either taking the piss, or he has a personality disorder (which I think seems likely) and that doesn't mean he can't fight again. Whether he will actually want to is another matter. Obviously the focus of training etc kept him on a somewhat even keel for most of his life, but with his goals fufilled, and the lack of satisfaction that came with it, I can't see him finding focus again and he'll probably become incredibly erratic and off the rails.

Just an opinion. If he starts exhibiting more psychotic symptoms, then I'll change my mind. But I don't think he's bi polar at all. That's a big thing to label somebody. It's a hardcore illness. There are different extremes of course, like Stephen Fry who purports to have a "mild" form of bi polar and I believe is not even medicated? But to me Fury just doesn't fit the bill.