BoxRec

APerno wrote:

Tomasino wrote:
Dempsey always hovered, always fought dirty and looked to bend and break the rules. Why would it be different in this fight?

You are correct there was no reason to believe it would be difference - except ironically it was different, different in Dempsey's behavior - Tunney's people, rightly so, felt exactly as you do, Dempsey couldn't be trusted - but I say, if you watch Dempsey's behavior at the knock down he does try to comply, he is just very bad at it - he walks away from Tunney, over to the ropes, and then when Barry yells, he tries go go deeper into a corner, and finally he lets Barry lead him by the hand to the farthest corner - his behavior is nothing like the Firpo or Willard fights - he tries but fails to comply; but he does not hover - again yes, Tunney had every right not to trust him - even when Tunney puts Dempsey down in the 9th, Tunney is unwilling to turn his back on Dempsey; Dempsey was still dangerous even on all fours, so as I said in an earlier post Tunney was not so quick to turn away from Dempsey, rightly so.

There was no reason to expect different; but ironically Dempsey did act different, he tried to comply, and it cost him.

Here is food for thought: if Dempsey had used his body to push Barry out of the way and get into position to nail Tunney with a sucker punch as he tried to rise (e.g. Firpo or Willard) do you think they would have had the balls to DQ him or would he have walked away champion?

Tomasino wrote:

APerno wrote:

Tomasino wrote:
Dempsey always hovered, always fought dirty and looked to bend and break the rules. Why would it be different in this fight?

You are correct there was no reason to believe it would be difference - except ironically it was different, different in Dempsey's behavior - Tunney's people, rightly so, felt exactly as you do, Dempsey couldn't be trusted - but I say, if you watch Dempsey's behavior at the knock down he does try to comply, he is just very bad at it - he walks away from Tunney, over to the ropes, and then when Barry yells, he tries go go deeper into a corner, and finally he lets Barry lead him by the hand to the farthest corner - his behavior is nothing like the Firpo or Willard fights - he tries but fails to comply; but he does not hover - again yes, Tunney had every right not to trust him - even when Tunney puts Dempsey down in the 9th, Tunney is unwilling to turn his back on Dempsey; Dempsey was still dangerous even on all fours, so as I said in an earlier post Tunney was not so quick to turn away from Dempsey, rightly so.

There was no reason to expect different; but ironically Dempsey did act different, he tried to comply, and it cost him.

Here is food for thought: if Dempsey had used his body to push Barry out of the way and get into position to nail Tunney with a sucker punch as he tried to rise (e.g. Firpo or Willard) do you think they would have had the balls to DQ him or would he have walked away champion?

Well if as you suggest, the referee was on Tunneys side then surely jack would be DQd? It shows how corrupt the sport was when you have to wonder whether the referee had 'the balls' to DQ Dempsey for a flagrant foul.

APerno wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

APerno wrote:

You are correct there was no reason to believe it would be difference - except ironically it was different, different in Dempsey's behavior - Tunney's people, rightly so, felt exactly as you do, Dempsey couldn't be trusted - but I say, if you watch Dempsey's behavior at the knock down he does try to comply, he is just very bad at it - he walks away from Tunney, over to the ropes, and then when Barry yells, he tries go go deeper into a corner, and finally he lets Barry lead him by the hand to the farthest corner - his behavior is nothing like the Firpo or Willard fights - he tries but fails to comply; but he does not hover - again yes, Tunney had every right not to trust him - even when Tunney puts Dempsey down in the 9th, Tunney is unwilling to turn his back on Dempsey; Dempsey was still dangerous even on all fours, so as I said in an earlier post Tunney was not so quick to turn away from Dempsey, rightly so.

There was no reason to expect different; but ironically Dempsey did act different, he tried to comply, and it cost him.

Here is food for thought: if Dempsey had used his body to push Barry out of the way and get into position to nail Tunney with a sucker punch as he tried to rise (e.g. Firpo or Willard) do you think they would have had the balls to DQ him or would he have walked away champion?

Well if as you suggest, the referee was on Tunneys side then surely jack would be DQd? It shows how corrupt the sport was when you have to wonder whether the referee had 'the balls' to DQ Dempsey for a flagrant foul.

For the record I never believed that Barry was corrupt, just inconsistent - refs do make honest mistakes e.g. Walcot Ali-Liston II - As far as DQing Dempsey, that is one of those things where you find out what kind of a ref you have when the crisis hits; Why didn't Lane DQ Tyson for biting? - sometimes they don't have a strong enough personality to stand-up to the foul/fighter when the moment comes. - I know Lane always talks tough, but when the crisis moment came, to me, he looked overwhelmed by it. - Dempsey was a strong enough public figure that to take away a win when he is standing on his feet and his opponent isn't, would take a very strong ref indeed.

Tomasino wrote: i think the best man won both fights for what it's worth.

APerno wrote:

Tomasino wrote: i think the best man won both fights for what it's worth.

I'll agree with that - I think Dempsey missed a chance to catch lighting in a bottle - I think Tyson wanted to, but didn't know how to quit.