BoxRec

tobyh5 wrote:I wonder when BJS last did an interview without saying "Eubank" at some stage. It could be a new sweepstake, how many times he says it

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

Who wants to be the best at sparring?

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

Sparring is important but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on who got the better of who. Sparring is practice after all, not a fight. Bigger gloves and some wear head guards. There are numerous examples of great fighters getting dropped and outboxed by journeymen, thats why there stories mean little.

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

I agree. Sparring obviously doesn't mean everything and isn't always an accurate reflection of what would happen in an actual fight, but it's laughable how some people reflexively deem it meaningless. People rightfully note that fighters are often working on things in sparring and aren't going all out, but there are plenty of heated sessions in which the fighters are mutually giving close to their best.

Let's say two fighters are going to have a sanctioned bout, and all you know about them is that the one continually got the better of the other in sparring sessions about 10 months ago. Are people really going to say that this shouldn't be considered a reason to favor the boxer who had the upper-hand? Should we ignore that and act like we have no info at all about the two fighters?

The big obvious difference is that sparring is not a competition with an outcone; one fighter might be going hell for leather whilst the other is just trying out a few things.

Its of course not meaningless or pointless but far too easy to read way too much, especially from second hand info.

crusader wrote:

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

I agree. Sparring obviously doesn't mean everything and isn't always an accurate reflection of what would happen in an actual fight (true that fighters are often working on things and not going hard, although plenty of sessions are heated), but it's laughable how some people reflexively deem it meaningless.

Let's say two fighters are going to have a sanctioned bout, and all you know about them is that the one continually got the better of the other in sparring sessions about 10 months ago. Are people really going to say that this shouldn't be considered a reason to favor the boxer who had the upper-hand? Should we ignore that and act like we have no info at all about the two fighters?

Id say instances where two fighters spar 10 months before they fight would be as rare as rocking horse shite.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The big obvious difference is that sparring is not a competition with an outcone; one fighter might be going hell for leather whilst the other is just trying out a few things.

Its of course not meaningless or pointless but far too easy to read way too much, especially from second hand info.

Of course, but there are loads of sparring sessions where both fighters are trying their best; not every spar is some experimental endeavor or light-hearted workout.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

crusader wrote:

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

I agree. Sparring obviously doesn't mean everything and isn't always an accurate reflection of what would happen in an actual fight (true that fighters are often working on things and not going hard, although plenty of sessions are heated), but it's laughable how some people reflexively deem it meaningless.

Let's say two fighters are going to have a sanctioned bout, and all you know about them is that the one continually got the better of the other in sparring sessions about 10 months ago. Are people really going to say that this shouldn't be considered a reason to favor the boxer who had the upper-hand? Should we ignore that and act like we have no info at all about the two fighters?

Id say instances where two fighters spar 10 months before they fight would be as rare as rocking horse shite.

Maybe, but would your just ingore that in this case and act like you had no basis to pick one fighter over the other?

You get 2 guys equally talented , don't read to much into it , because one may well far better on the night when it matters ,, thats why one may be a champ and the other is'nt but it does give a good indication of the level someone can perform .
Example .. My middle son was a good ameteur , probably the most gifted kid i ever trained , but he was a gym champ , on the big occasions he froze , nerves got the better of him , he would drop 4-5 kilo the night before , and lose to someone who should;nt of been in the same ring has him , I took that kid to a gym when he had not boxed for 2 years he was 18 ,, done a couple of rnds to warm up and we watched him jump in with the aba champ at the time who was the same weight , and he made him look stupid ,, he then had a couple of rnds rest and jumped in with the profesional british champ , and held his own ,,
Now do you read into that sparring session has you have a up and coming world champ ,, no way ,, but you do know this kid is good so its a good indication that he's up there but not that he could win a fight with them .

Some people are just gym champs , and every gym has seen one .

CiganoBoxer wrote:It was comment knowledge that Nick Blackwell put it on Eubank Jnr big time in sparring also....but we all know what happened when they actually fought
Not a big fan of Jnr and how team Eubanks carry on ,if you had ever even been in a boxing gym you know that sparring is very different than fighting

Simply not true mate. The Wild Card gym is notorious for its spars being wars. In fact, i have to been a boxing gym near Camden in london where the sparring was savage.

Sparring stories.

Recent ones like Eubank Jnr dominating De Gale and Froch. GGG taking Kovalev apart. Price KOing Joshua. Andy Lee having to leave Price camp pre Thomson after dropping him 2 or 3 times. Fury getting beat up by an unknown (to me) cruiser.

Older ones like Spadafora dominating Floyd. Glenn McCory dropping Tysoe (or shaking him to his boots). 17 year old Floyd schooling Pernell Whittaker and 17 year old Jones Jnr taking SRL to school. There are hundreds of others.

Don't forget sparring is often with 16oz gloves and a head guard.
The main fighter often brings in an opponent with a certain attribute to work on a certain thing whilst "sparring opponent" goes into ring to box his own game.
The main guy has often done an hour or so training before getting in ring whilst sparring partner has often just warmed up
Main guy may be in shark tank. 3 or more different partners each doing round or two each in turn so fresh opponents for main guy every round.
fighters going to have off days , look at how many times top fighters lost against crap opponents in old days when fighting every couple days.

What happens in gym stays in gym. I've put it on national amateur champions for a round (usually only part of one to be honest) in the gym. Easier to do with nothing at stake and nice controlled environment

Fitzy901 wrote:

Rexob wrote:Sparring don't mean shi.t

Of course it does, I have never understood that comment.

That guy who knocked down mike Tyson must have been an all time great then.

Sparring is sparring, half the time the fighters haven't peaked or have just done shed loads of road work, or are practicing moves or working on weaknesses. That's not boxing. Head gear, bigger gloves.

Audley Harrison was apparently an absolutely unbelievable talent in sparring.

Didn't price turn over AJ in sparring once?

Fitzy901 wrote:

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

exactly, if it meant nothing boxers would just hit pads and go for a run.

Well obviously it's vital to a boxer's training, but that's not the point being made. (And I suspect you know that.)

Eubank was domimting froch in sparring prior to grove 2.

Doesn't mean eubank would dominate him on fight night.

In that clip you could see froch was working on something and it not really working.

It would be good to see after what he done to that young lad, but it means shite.

Some good points both ways. Sparring can mean something or not too much. You take punches differently with big gloves and head guards. You can have absolute gym terrors who never won a pro championship.. Good points about fighters peaking at different times of training camps also.

Then you have the huge gap between private and public fighting. One fighter will choke when it really matters whereas another will take it no another level of intensity, firing on all cylinders and boxing at a different level.

Autobarn wrote:Some good points both ways. Sparring can mean something or not too much. You take punches differently with big gloves and head guards. You can have absolute gym terrors who never won a pro championship.. Good points about fighters peaking at different times of training camps also.

Then you have the huge gap between private and public fighting. One fighter will choke when it really matters whereas another will take it no another level of intensity, firing on all cylinders and boxing at a different level.

Also fighters take more risks in sparring then real fights, when their record is not on the line and some fighters brawl more, to develop fight toughness and conditioning, a typical example was a peak Mohammed Ali, he used to stand and trade a lot in sparring, yet in a real fight would box and move, his sparring helped condition him for tough fight with Forman and Frazier.

liamlion wrote:

CiganoBoxer wrote:It was comment knowledge that Nick Blackwell put it on Eubank Jnr big time in sparring also....but we all know what happened when they actually fought
Not a big fan of Jnr and how team Eubanks carry on ,if you had ever even been in a boxing gym you know that sparring is very different than fighting

Simply not true mate. The Wild Card gym is notorious for its spars being wars. In fact, i have to been a boxing gym near Camden in london where the sparring was savage.

There are indeed some gyms where this is the case, the Kronk was the same - the one near Camden is a kronk outpost is it not, I passed it a few years ago, and it had kronk branding on it.

However, I know many boxers who told me that sparring was more about working things out, not going to war, and that there were fighters who were known for bullying sparring partners, and also sparring partners who were known for coming for a tear up.

The point remains, that sparring means different things, to different people, at different times.

If i'm the champ, what's the sense in be beating the shite out of my sparring partner, what am I learning, the chances are the sparring partner is more likely to try and prove something, and look like they are winning, it means little in the context of who would beat who in a real fight.

People who obsess over who 'won' a sparring match (which isn't even a contest), are missing entirely the point.

nitro5912 wrote:Eubank was domimting froch in sparring prior to grove 2.

Doesn't mean eubank would dominate him on fight night.

In that clip you could see froch was working on something and it not really working.

It would be good to see after what he done to that young lad, but it means shite.

If you think that was domination, you need glasses.

Nonsense, Eubank doesn't even waste his time sparring middleweights.

He only gives heavyweights time of day if he can't find a Bear to tangle with.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:People who obsess over who 'won' a sparring match (which isn't even a contest), are missing entirely the point.

This

keirw wrote:Nonsense, Eubank doesn't even waste his time sparring middleweights.

He only gives heavyweights time of day if he can't find a Bear to tangle with.

I heard he bit the balls of a bull mastiff just for fun the other day.

Also another thing with sparring is the 2 fighters can be at totally different stages of camp,1 guy may be a lot sharper than the other who might only be into their 1st week of sparring

Rexob wrote:

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

Who wants to be the best at sparring?

Every person that's ever went in for a spar! You think punches hurt any less in sparring than they do a fight???
You think people like talking more punches than they need to??

Controversial wrote:

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

Sparring is important but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on who got the better of who. Sparring is practice after all, not a fight. Bigger gloves and some wear head guards. There are numerous examples of great fighters getting dropped and outboxed by journeymen, thats why there stories mean little.

There are numerous stories of world champions getting beat by nobodies as well. Upsets happen in boxing- that's why we watch it. If they never it would be boring. I doubt any journeymen routinely outbox better fighters in sparring and then are unable to replicate it in a fight. If 2 lads have a dozen spars and one consistently comes out on top then it's pretty much guaranteed he would come out on top of they had a fight.

Sparring ain't the be all and end all and it won't always replicate what happens in a fight but it's the best indication you've got to work on and to say it "means nothing" as rexrob said is utter rubbish and shows a complete lack of appreciation.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

crusader wrote:

Supremo wrote:This "sparring means poo" is utter nonsense. What better indicator of how a fight would go can you get other than sparring? of course it means something! just because someone wins a spar doesn't mean they will win a fight but it is complete and utter nonsense to say it means nothing. If anyone on here when in and sparred with Eubank Jnr would we get the better of him? of course we wouldn't! because he is a far better boxer than any of us (to my knowledge) on here.

Sparring can take place at different periods of individuals training camp which gives a massive adavantage to someone who is closer to fight night- but its just utter crap arguning that it carries no value whatsoever- usually said by someone who is hoping to convince others that they are more knowedgable than they are...

I agree. Sparring obviously doesn't mean everything and isn't always an accurate reflection of what would happen in an actual fight (true that fighters are often working on things and not going hard, although plenty of sessions are heated), but it's laughable how some people reflexively deem it meaningless.

Let's say two fighters are going to have a sanctioned bout, and all you know about them is that the one continually got the better of the other in sparring sessions about 10 months ago. Are people really going to say that this shouldn't be considered a reason to favor the boxer who had the upper-hand? Should we ignore that and act like we have no info at all about the two fighters?

Id say instances where two fighters spar 10 months before they fight would be as rare as rocking horse shite.

At elite level maybe. Hardly unusual in amateurs or lower professionals where folk take what's on offer.