BoxRec

Killer Blow wrote:GGG would not beat prime Roy Jones LOL. It wouldn't even be close.

youre right, it wouldn't be close. They flashy reflexes would maybe pick up a couple of rounds but Roy was always packin glass and ggg would lay him out.

caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

Totally totally disagree.....RJJ retiring after a 15 year career and wins over Hopkins, Ruiz, Tarver, and Toney would have been far far far superior to the level of competition GGG has beaten. GGG would need to beat canelo to rival the toney win. He would need to beat Stephenson to rival
the ruiz win.

Bricks wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

Totally totally disagree.....RJJ retiring after a 15 year career and wins over Hopkins, Ruiz, Tarver, and Toney would have been far far far superior to the level of competition GGG has beaten. GGG would need to beat canelo to rival the toney win. He would need to beat Stephenson to rival
the ruiz win.

Roy Jones Jr is considered an ATG purely on the skills he put on display defeating paltry opposition. Roy and Bhop both admit that Bhop was well before his prime and that's why you don't see that fight being considered anything close to a classic. Montell and Toney are far from ATG. HONESTLY, did you just compare Ruiz to Adonis? Really? Ruiz was nothing more than low hanging fruit and one of the worst boxers to ever hold that belt. As much as I hate Adonis, he's a fantastic boxer and defended his title well.

Let's face facts here. I loved to watch Roy fight and admit his talents were immense but he spent a career lacking that big fight. He never fought anyone good enough to garner even a PPV event. That's telling and should be considered when analyzing his career. GGGs dominating a division that has more talent than Roys era and he's doing it more destructively than Roy did. Numbers don't lie. The division has never seen this before. In history, no ones done it better than GGG. PERIOD.

No one should rank RJJ any differently whether he retired after the John Ruiz fight or not. Everything after that mark is just post-prime irrelevance that has no bearing on how good he was in his prime.

Let's not forget that Jones was reaching a level of mega-stardom in the early 2000s that few P4Ps have ever had. I think some people have yet to admit that those later losses did diminish him especially considering that one was to an equally old Hopkins. Based on the OP's hypothetical, I'd say it's top 10. Going from MW to HW champ is no small feat, especially considering how few greats below LHW have even tried fighting at HW, let alone winning a title.

Lackeos wrote:No one should rank RJJ any differently whether he retired after the John Ruiz fight or not. Everything after that mark is just post-prime irrelevance that has no bearing on how good he was in his prime.

It does mate. People can now say. What happens if Jones went in with a pressure fighting, ring cutting, power punching, fast fighter with an iron chin. Golovkin for example or next gen of fighters whenever that will happen. Would he last? Would it be a middleweight version of the a Glen Johnson fight. His chin, although I don't think is terrible, is now a legit factor. Before all of this we didn't know. Jones was hardly hit. He fenced his opponents. His highlight reel looks amazing but the reality of his fights (in my opinion and one i'm sure people will not like) were pretty uneventful until he got the spectacular knockout. He ran around his opponent doing circles and landing ridiculously fast and powerful punches from unorthodox angles. He would probably do that to Golovkin, but G now has at the very least, in people minds, a punchers chance.

I have not read the thread but the presence of the title on CS makes me feel ichk.

jbizzle20 wrote:Let's not forget that Jones was reaching a level of mega-stardom in the early 2000s that few P4Ps have ever had. I think some people have yet to admit that those later losses did diminish him especially considering that one was to an equally old Hopkins. Based on the OP's hypothetical, I'd say it's top 10. Going from MW to HW champ is no small feat, especially considering how few greats below LHW have even tried fighting at HW, let alone winning a title.

Jones was not a megastar.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:Let's not forget that Jones was reaching a level of mega-stardom in the early 2000s that few P4Ps have ever had. I think some people have yet to admit that those later losses did diminish him especially considering that one was to an equally old Hopkins. Based on the OP's hypothetical, I'd say it's top 10. Going from MW to HW champ is no small feat, especially considering how few greats below LHW have even tried fighting at HW, let alone winning a title.

Jones was not a megastar.

You've got to be trolling.

Nope

Jones was more popular than the avergae boxer, but he wasn't DLH, Manny or Floyd.
You had to tell many people he was in the Matrix, a "mega-star" would have more general recognition.

I would say he was in that weird area between Cotto and DLH.

Compared to 99.99% of boxers though, he was a mega-star.

Certainly, he was a ultra-mega-giga-star within boxing though.

You ever listen to modern fighters talk about Roy Jones Jr.?
It's the same as when modern basketball players talk about Jordan.

IN BOXING,
Roy Jones Jr. was a Michael Jordan or a Michael Jackson.
He did his thing in a way that people who saw it were amazed.
Of course, there are people aren't big fans of their style,
but it seems that an acceptance of their greatness was a worldwide phenomena.

European fighters idolize Jones. American fighters idolize Jones. Mexican fighters idolize Jones.
They idolize Jones in the sense someone idolizes Tyson.
"I'm going to get into boxing to look like Roy Jones Jr."
And it's not specific to a race or culture.
He was an athlete who transformed the look of a sport.

Most of the Roy Jones Jr hate comes from guys like us on the internet (and his jealous contemporaries),
fueled by a media that hates any athlete who does things their own way.
And who are we? Basically varying degrees of Larry Merchant.

I judge Roy Jones by the look a Vasyl Lomachenko gives him.
The fact that fighters get like kids when they meet him.
True genius of doing recognizes true genius of doing.

I think I can rephrase that question better..........
Q....If we didn't know that RJJ was not the greatest of all time, would we think that he was the greatest of all time?
A....Yes, maybe we would have been duped into thinking he was the greatest of all time. Fortunately, reality interceded on our behalf.
And he still didn't face some of the best fighters of his generation.

diddy wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

This is one of the DUMBEST things I've EVER seen written. GGG's level of opposition has been better than Jones?! GGGs best win is...David fn Lemieux. Jones beat JAMES TONEY and BERNARD HOPKINS. Mike McCallum would trash all of GGGs opponents. Montel Griffin would beat them all as well.

Never post again.

Tarver is still a better win than anyone on GGG's record! Look at the manner in how RJJ operated - the guy was ridiculously gifted. Absolute joy to watch in his prime.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Jones was more popular than the avergae boxer, but he wasn't DLH, Manny or Floyd.
You had to tell many people he was in the Matrix, a "mega-star" would have more general recognition.

I would say he was in that weird area between Cotto and DLH.

Compared to 99.99% of boxers though, he was a mega-star.

Certainly, he was a ultra-mega-giga-star within boxing though.

He didn't generate cotto money. I was a huge Roy fan but he couldn't sell tickets like a huge star. That huge contract with HBO and the fact the he didn't move the needle in relation to his talent is the main reason there are so many fights left on the table. He was a top 2 fighter in the world, but maybe not even a top 10 draw. Definitely not top 5.

caldo2025 wrote:

Bricks wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

Totally totally disagree.....RJJ retiring after a 15 year career and wins over Hopkins, Ruiz, Tarver, and Toney would have been far far far superior to the level of competition GGG has beaten. GGG would need to beat canelo to rival the toney win. He would need to beat Stephenson to rival
the ruiz win.

Roy Jones Jr is considered an ATG purely on the skills he put on display defeating paltry opposition. Roy and Bhop both admit that Bhop was well before his prime and that's why you don't see that fight being considered anything close to a classic. Montell and Toney are far from ATG. HONESTLY, did you just compare Ruiz to Adonis? Really? Ruiz was nothing more than low hanging fruit and one of the worst boxers to ever hold that belt. As much as I hate Adonis, he's a fantastic boxer and defended his title well.

Let's face facts here. I loved to watch Roy fight and admit his talents were immense but he spent a career lacking that big fight. He never fought anyone good enough to garner even a PPV event. That's telling and should be considered when analyzing his career. GGGs dominating a division that has more talent than Roys era and he's doing it more destructively than Roy did. Numbers don't lie. The division has never seen this before. In history, no ones done it better than GGG. PERIOD.

Wow.

boxingtruth wrote:

diddy wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:That would mean that RJJJR would have retired at only 34 years old without many significant fights on his resume. I think that fans wouldn't feel satisfied at all with his career but we'd all marvel at the talent we saw in the ring against inferior competition. Sure, he beat Bhop and a couple other good boxers at MW but let's be honest, GGG's level of opposition thus far has been way more competitive than RJJR's era.

Once a boxer is knocked out, they are never the same. I'm actually surprised how well Manny has done since his KO but i have a feeling that we might see him KO'd next month. Roy definitely has stayed in the game way too long and rusted up his legacy but I'd say whether he retired at 34 or not, he's still one of the most talented MW's i've ever seen. Is he an ATG? I'd say "maybe". Just can't overlook what happened after 2003. It happened.

This is one of the DUMBEST things I've EVER seen written. GGG's level of opposition has been better than Jones?! GGGs best win is...David fn Lemieux. Jones beat JAMES TONEY and BERNARD HOPKINS. Mike McCallum would trash all of GGGs opponents. Montel Griffin would beat them all as well.

Never post again.

Tarver is still a better win than anyone on GGG's record! Look at the manner in how RJJ operated - the guy was ridiculously gifted. Absolute joy to watch in his prime.

Agreed, Roy did showcase skills in his prime that we haven't seen before but he did it against chumps. You reference Tarver but Roy pretty much lost all 3 fights to him if we are being honest. The first fight that Roy won was highly questionable decision and the reason why they had two more. Roy didn't win any of them in my opinion.

I don't think that we will ever see GGG get knocked down, much less knocked out like Roy. And you would lose your shirt if you bet that GGG would lose multiple times to one boxer like Roy did.

recent loses doesnt erase previous succes. So i dont think there is a reason to rank him lower now than in 2003 if he retired at that time

Cent0089 wrote: ↑12 Jun 2018, 14:12 recent loses doesnt erase previous succes. So i dont think there is a reason to rank him lower now than in 2003 if he retired at that time

Yeah, it's like rating Duran or Holyfield lower for their career endings, when they were past prime.

Depends whether you're talking career rating or peak rating. Roy was one of the very best at his peak but career wise he's taken a few knocks.

Peak rating can just be one fight (Tyson v Spinks, Ali v Williams, Hearns v Duran, Pacquiao v Hatton (?), Curry v McCrory etc).
As in athletics, you can have that special day when everything goes right.

Difficult to place Roy because it's not even clear when he peaked or what his best weight was. Probably safe to say he's top 3 whichever way you look at it.

Post-prime defeats and pre-prime defeats don't affect the way that I rank a fighter all-time at all.

RJJ looked like he had the goods, but he didn't beat anyone more exceptional than James Toney, Virgil Hill, and Mike McCallum (excluding pre-prime Hopkins). He might have been top 30 all-time p4p.