BoxRec

Always difficult to rate fighters from different eras, but I have Holyfield above any Tyson (prime or otherwise) and Lewis.
In saying that I am not sure Ali is number 1. Marciano and Holmes have a a fair claim to that crown. Always a good debate though.

jbizzle20 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:
You have to be joking. Vitali has one of the highest KO% by a HW champion ever. Evander had to struggle to a decision with way too many of his opponents.

at ko%, you're cute.

You don't get an 87% KO rate when you are a champ for as long as Vitali was, by luck. The big knock on Holyfield was that he wasn't Tyson, meaning he wasn't a big puncher. In fact, he had trouble attracting the same level of fame earlier in his career because of this lack of big power.

A big knock on Vitali is the level of his opposition and he couldnt beat Lewis.

Luckily for evander losing to Lewis is far from his claim to fame. That's vitalis greatest accomplishment, getting his ass whipped.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He did, and if you watch vitalis inability to do anything with Kevin Johnson laying on the ropes you can see the formula for Larry. Evander was a bigger puncher than vitali, so even if he lands his best shot, Larry isn't going anywhere.

You have to be joking. Vitali has one of the highest KO% by a HW champion ever. Evander had to struggle to a decision with way too many of his opponents.

at ko%, you're cute.

If Vitali Klitschko was a puncher he would have scored at least one single knockdown somewhere while landing flush shots on Shannon Briggs, Obed Sullivan, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders, Lennox Lewis, Samuel Peter, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson and Derek Chisora. At least one.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:
You have to be joking. Vitali has one of the highest KO% by a HW champion ever. Evander had to struggle to a decision with way too many of his opponents.

at ko%, you're cute.

If Vitali Klitschko was a puncher he would have scored at least one single knockdown somewhere while landing flush shots on Shannon Briggs, Obed Sullivan, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders, Lennox Lewis, Samuel Peter, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson and Derek Chisora. At least one.

Early in his career, I will grant you that Vitali did not have an out punch and that cost him dearly against Lewis. His punches lacked leverage Later in his career, he began to utilize that leverage and developed a heavy hammer that floored a lot of guys. However, you don't always have to floor a guy to be a puncher, sometime the damage you inflict causes a guy to just give out. That's where KO% comes in. An opponent is TKOd from heavy shots that accumulate damage much quicker and more consistenly, unlike Holyfield, who would set a frenzied pace and just wore the opponent out from over-punching and inferior conditioning. Some guys could meet the challenge (Bowe), some guys could not (Tyson).

Tuan_Jim wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jbizzle20 wrote:
You have to be joking. Vitali has one of the highest KO% by a HW champion ever. Evander had to struggle to a decision with way too many of his opponents.

at ko%, you're cute.

If Vitali Klitschko was a puncher he would have scored at least one single knockdown somewhere while landing flush shots on Shannon Briggs, Obed Sullivan, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders, Lennox Lewis, Samuel Peter, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson and Derek Chisora. At least one.

Add Vaughn Bean to this list. Bean was knocked down by Holyfield, by the way. Vitali beat him up, but couldn't knock him down. And Vitali would NEVER be able to knock down Ray Mercer or Riddick Bowe.

anyone seen holy v valuev ? only seen bits myself but looks like evander did a better job on him than haye did, robbery ?

littlepug wrote:anyone seen holy v valuev ? only seen bits myself but looks like evander did a better job on him than haye did, robbery ?

I thought Haye got beat, I felt Evander won but I've not scored them.

Tomasino wrote:

littlepug wrote:anyone seen holy v valuev ? only seen bits myself but looks like evander did a better job on him than haye did, robbery ?

I thought Haye got beat, I felt Evander won but I've not scored them.

Also thought haye lost, thought it both a bit bizarre and impressive seeing holyfield doing his trademark hooking combos on Valuev !

Boxing Writer wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: at ko%, you're cute.

If Vitali Klitschko was a puncher he would have scored at least one single knockdown somewhere while landing flush shots on Shannon Briggs, Obed Sullivan, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders, Lennox Lewis, Samuel Peter, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson and Derek Chisora. At least one.

Add Vaughn Bean to this list. Bean was knocked down by Holyfield, by the way. Vitali beat him up, but couldn't knock him down. And Vitali would NEVER be able to knock down Ray Mercer or Riddick Bowe.

Amazed I forgot that one. Holyfield had Bean down heavily. VK couldn't so much as wobble him.

Add Dokes and Tyson to Bowe and Mercer, more names Vitali 80% KO ratio Klit could never hope to knock down.

Yup, huge myth. He's a big dude so even his arm punches hurt after a bit. Holyfields superior technique clearly generated more single punch power.

Camacho had a higher ko% than Ike Williams.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote:
If Vitali Klitschko was a puncher he would have scored at least one single knockdown somewhere while landing flush shots on Shannon Briggs, Obed Sullivan, Chris Byrd, Corrie Sanders, Lennox Lewis, Samuel Peter, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson and Derek Chisora. At least one.

Add Vaughn Bean to this list. Bean was knocked down by Holyfield, by the way. Vitali beat him up, but couldn't knock him down. And Vitali would NEVER be able to knock down Ray Mercer or Riddick Bowe.

Amazed I forgot that one. Holyfield had Bean down heavily. VK couldn't so much as wobble him.

Add Dokes and Tyson to Bowe and Mercer, more names Vitali 80% KO ratio Klit could never hope to knock down.

Ali couldn't KO Spinks, Coetzee crushed Spinks in 1 round. Again those were early fights, before he refined his power punches. Holyfield's KO rate didn't spike in his post-Lewis years either, when Vitali was at his most dominant. Second, the contrast between their KO rates is stark. Vitali 87, Holyfield 51. That's a huge difference, that is more indicative of a power difference than just luck. You might have had a better argument if they were within maybe 20.

I rank the great Evander Holyfield at:
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Rocky Marciano
5. Jack Dempsey
6. Evander Holyfield

At #6 at heavyweight is about right. Considering that he fought and beat the very best of his era. He won the title 4 times, more than any other heavyweight. The only knock I got against him is that he wasn't a dominant champion with a long title reign. But, he beat the very best: Buster Douglas, George Foreman, Riddick Bowe, Larry Holmes (the over the hill version. But, at the time, Holmes beat tough contender Ray Mercer), Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson (twice), Michael Dokes, Pinklon Thomas, Alex Stewart and Michael Moorer in the rematch.

A great resume of wins against ten top 10 contenders and champions. Not a long title reign, buts long career at heavyweight.

elmersalsa wrote:He won the title 4 times, more than any other heavyweight.

Actually Holyfield won ABC title belts 4 times but the the lineal title just twice.
Ali won the WBA title 4 times (Liston, Terrell, Foreman, Spinks) but, more importantly, he won the lineal title 3 times.
Personally I'd rate Holyfield somewhere in the top 20 but definitely not in the top 10 all time great heavyweights.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

LOL, that's the best counter-argument you have?

Anyone whi thinks Vitali and Wlad belong in the same league as Evander is kidding themselves, wlad. Would have never been a chapuon in the nineties. Prevprison Tyson, Holyfield Leeis and Bowe beat him. Tua and Ine Fireman and Mercer abd Holmes have a chabce too. I know people on here like Vitali but i watched the Lewis fight withlut HBO commenty. Lewis would have won that fight anyway. Holyfield best 5 results are better than anything o. Either brothers resume.

This is how I'd rank him among the Best Heavyweights since Joe Louis

1. Muhammad Ali - 1107 points
2. Joe Louis - 899 points
3. George Foreman - 694 points
4. Larry Holmes - 576 points
5. Rocky Marciano - 474 points
6. Lennox Lewis - 470 Points
7. Evander Holyfield - 466 Points

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Feb 2026, 22:10 This is how I'd rank him among the Best Heavyweights since Joe Louis

1. Muhammad Ali - 1107 points
2. Joe Louis - 899 points
3. George Foreman - 694 points
4. Larry Holmes - 576 points
5. Rocky Marciano - 474 points
6. Lennox Lewis - 470 Points
7. Evander Holyfield - 466 Points

If I devised a system that spit out Ali-Louis-Foreman-Holmes as top 4 all-time I'd be pretty pleased with myself

witherspoon wrote: ↑27 Feb 2026, 23:44

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Feb 2026, 22:10 This is how I'd rank him among the Best Heavyweights since Joe Louis

1. Muhammad Ali - 1107 points
2. Joe Louis - 899 points
3. George Foreman - 694 points
4. Larry Holmes - 576 points
5. Rocky Marciano - 474 points
6. Lennox Lewis - 470 Points
7. Evander Holyfield - 466 Points

If I devised a system that spit out Ali-Louis-Foreman-Holmes as top 4 all-time I'd be pretty pleased with myself

Thanks. I think I've established a baseline that shows the system works out pretty reasonably. I'll be adding to it more and more as time goes on. Just a fun little project I've created to occupy my time with.

Evander is above Tyson by any metric. He’s top ten. Probably around 5-8

- Oh, dear, the mythology of Evan yet again for the umpteenth X is it???

200lb record is 26-10-2, 14 KO with 3 KO losses with a 37% of his fights won by KO

190lb Qawi put him in ICU their first fight.

Used to love Vander, but he stunk out his hanging on delusional years thinking he was gonna unify the Heavy division. Some how went broke in spite being in one the richest purse eras of heavywt boxing.

Terribly, nay horribly embarrassed by retired MMA Vitor Belfort while attempting a Tyson exhibition career.

Had he stay retired with a "Hard Heart" after Moorer beat him, he might have kept a semblance of his health, wealth and reputation.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑02 Mar 2026, 11:48 - Oh, dear, the mythology of Evan yet again for the umpteenth X is it???

200lb record is 26-10-2, 14 KO with 3 KO losses with a 37% of his fights won by KO

190lb Qawi put him in ICU their first fight.

Used to love Vander, but he stunk out his hanging on delusional years thinking he was gonna unify the Heavy division. Some how went broke in spite being in one the richest purse eras of heavywt boxing.

Terribly, nay horribly embarrassed by retired MMA Vitor Belfort while attempting a Tyson exhibition career.

Had he stay retired with a "Hard Heart" after Moorer beat him, he might have kept a semblance of his health, wealth and reputation.

I'm no huge fan of Evander Holyfield, I'm not going to go into the reasons, you probably hold similar views, judging by your invoking the infamous 'Evan'.

But how on earth do you find anything derogatory in beating Qawi in his 11th pro fight in one of the best fights of the 80's?

witherspoon wrote: ↑02 Mar 2026, 15:23

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑02 Mar 2026, 11:48 - Oh, dear, the mythology of Evan yet again for the umpteenth X is it???

200lb record is 26-10-2, 14 KO with 3 KO losses with a 37% of his fights won by KO

190lb Qawi put him in ICU their first fight.

Used to love Vander, but he stunk out his hanging on delusional years thinking he was gonna unify the Heavy division. Some how went broke in spite being in one the richest purse eras of heavywt boxing.

Terribly, nay horribly embarrassed by retired MMA Vitor Belfort while attempting a Tyson exhibition career.

Had he stay retired with a "Hard Heart" after Moorer beat him, he might have kept a semblance of his health, wealth and reputation.

I'm no huge fan of Evander Holyfield, I'm not going to go into the reasons, you probably hold similar views, judging by your invoking the infamous 'Evan'.

But how on earth do you find anything derogatory in beating Qawi in his 11th pro fight in one of the best fights of the 80's?

I don't think he ever makes a comment that isn't intended to wind somebody up.