BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I knew his brother Egyptian cotton.

Please explain yourself ?

Lenny wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I knew his brother Egyptian cotton.

Strange comment fella. Time and a place for poo jokes

Must admit, I'd not actually read the thread, and didn't realise until after I'd posted what it was about. Yes, not appropriate, now deleted.

It's tragic and sad to read that report and how it could have been avoided.

Unfortunately our NHS is poor and only really covers the basics, we're moving more and more towards a paid/insurance healthcare system, although I understand this is probably unrealistic for people taking part in risky sports as the premium would be sky high. It seems more and more that the NHS doctors see themselves as the guardians of the NHS budget and just fob people off with painkillers unless you go back again and again and refuse to go away.

It's shocking that they didn't scan his brain, but it really doesn't surprise me at all. The NHS is just not fit for purpose nowadays. It's about £400 for a private brain scan. Shocking that someone's life could potentially have been saved for such an amount.

I thought all BBBOC licence fighters had to have an annual brain scan . In fact I'm sure there was a thread on here with a pro saying it's overkill making fighters have one so often(?)

NHS wise I guess they're prioritising people who have things wrong with the brain, like tumours, over sportsmen who have to have one to tick the box to compete - hence boxers all pay £600 to go private every year to have the scan, and I guess 99.9% come back all clear.

Terrible tragedy. A young man has died.

Jesus, just read this thread, apologies for my inappropriate comment before, didn't mean to make light of it, but just hadn't read the thread.

I think this case highlights just how poorly regulated boxing is, considering that the BBBofC are considered to be one of the more diligent commissions, it's pretty shambolic.

Boxing really is a shitshow compared to other global sports when it comes to regulation.

Wales wrote:I thought all BBBOC licence fighters had to have an annual brain scan . In fact I'm sure there was a thread on here with a pro saying it's overkill making fighters have one so often(?)

NHS wise I guess they're prioritising people who have things wrong with the brain, like tumours, over sportsmen who have to have one to tick the box to compete - hence boxers all pay £600 to go private every year to have the scan, and I guess 99.9% come back all clear.

Terrible tragedy. A young man has died.

Yeh, unfortunately in this case it was a boxer who presented to them with crippling headaches. Alarm bells should have been ringing but that's the NHS for you. Budgets over everything.

an absolute tragedy and an avoidable one at that. the nhs have questions to answer for sure , but i am sick to the back teeth of the people running boxing not addressing the problems around people losing weight rapidly. young fit men with ego's and bravado need to be protected from themselves sometimes.
i can think of several instances of boxers i knew losing ridiculous amounts of weight in a short period of time as they had got a late call for a show in a couple of days. i can think of one lad in particular that i thought would be a great fighter to watch as a pro had his career virtually ended just as it began due to having to rip off a lot of weight at short notice. watched someone literally staggering out of a sauna all over the place the day before a fight and it worried me no end.

these lads deserve better. at the very start of their career when they are earning peanuts most have to work full or part time and struggle to diet and do the weight properly. personally i think something along the lines of every gym that has professional boxers in it should have scales linked to a database to keep check of active boxers weights on a weekly basis. set limits on how much over fight night weight they are allowed to be at any given time . it may be as low as 4 or 5 pounds for the lighter weights, but if people are constantly weighed we might see more consistent match ups as well.

some fights i watch i find it incredible the size difference between the boxers. a well backed boxer that has access to the best diet advice, training and maybe has sponsorship so doesn't have to work in his early career can have a huge weight advantage going into the ring. those that don't have that back up can sadly end up hurt or worse by having to cut corners and do the weight the hard way.

i know it has always been like this , but i would like to see every young boxer get the chance to realise their potential and stay healthy no matter how long their career.
(just to be clear i have never boxed, just wore some canvass out with my arse when i had the odd sparring session with kids that had half a clue what they were doing,so am speaking from the perspective of a fan )

rab wrote:an absolute tragedy and an avoidable one at that. the nhs have questions to answer for sure , but i am sick to the back teeth of the people running boxing not addressing the problems around people losing weight rapidly. young fit men with ego's and bravado need to be protected from themselves sometimes.
i can think of several instances of boxers i knew losing ridiculous amounts of weight in a short period of time as they had got a late call for a show in a couple of days. i can think of one lad in particular that i thought would be a great fighter to watch as a pro had his career virtually ended just as it began due to having to rip off a lot of weight at short notice. watched someone literally staggering out of a sauna all over the place the day before a fight and it worried me no end.

these lads deserve better. at the very start of their career when they are earning peanuts most have to work full or part time and struggle to diet and do the weight properly. personally i think something along the lines of every gym that has professional boxers in it should have scales linked to a database to keep check of active boxers weights on a weekly basis. set limits on how much over fight night weight they are allowed to be at any given time . it may be as low as 4 or 5 pounds for the lighter weights, but if people are constantly weighed we might see more consistent match ups as well.

some fights i watch i find it incredible the size difference between the boxers. a well backed boxer that has access to the best diet advice, training and maybe has sponsorship so doesn't have to work in his early career can have a huge weight advantage going into the ring. those that don't have that back up can sadly end up hurt or worse by having to cut corners and do the weight the hard way.

i know it has always been like this , but i would like to see every young boxer get the chance to realise their potential and stay healthy no matter how long their career.
(just to be clear i have never boxed, just wore some canvass out with my arse when i had the odd sparring session with kids that had half a clue what they were doing,so am speaking from the perspective of a fan )

Totally agree. It's been proven that gaining and losing large amounts of weight repeatedly has many deleterious long term effects, including organ damage, weight loss, depression, neurological disorders etc, that's not even factoring in dehydration, which is potentially life threatening, especially when you're going to be fighting someone!

Boxing continues to linger in the last century, all of the technology is there now, if I had the will to, I could easily set up a system which tracked my weight and wirelessly streamed it to my phone and/or a cloud database, it's a piece of piss.

You compare the use of modern tech in other sports, and boxing looks practically medieval.

lefty wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:
Agreed, makes no sense at all to me.

I remember I tore ligaments in my foot and ankle and had an am fight in 5 days time. I went to Aand E told the doc at the hospital about the match and he said it was fine, I could hardly walk come the Friday night but still fought because the doc said it would be fine and i didn't want to pussy out. I don't think doctors at hospitals like boxers much. I could be wrong of course.

They probably have the mentality that it's self inflicted trauma or some crap and that they only want to treat the "worthy" causes or some bollocks.

They can not like it all they want. The boxer has paid taxes / N.I and is legally entitled to a proper standard of care. If they have other ideas they should have repaid him his contributions which he could have spent on a doctor prepared to put his Hippocratic oath before personal views. They gave him crap advice and there is a possibility that he paid with his life. If that turns out to be the case, then the trust should be paying his bereaved family a hell of a lot of money.

TheCobra wrote:

Wales wrote:I thought all BBBOC licence fighters had to have an annual brain scan . In fact I'm sure there was a thread on here with a pro saying it's overkill making fighters have one so often(?)

NHS wise I guess they're prioritising people who have things wrong with the brain, like tumours, over sportsmen who have to have one to tick the box to compete - hence boxers all pay £600 to go private every year to have the scan, and I guess 99.9% come back all clear.

Terrible tragedy. A young man has died.

Yeh, unfortunately in this case it was a boxer who presented to them with crippling headaches. Alarm bells should have been ringing but that's the NHS for you. Budgets over everything.

A very close friend of mine was treated similarly by the NHS a while back. Some big swinging d*ck consultant from South Africa of all places just so happened to be visiting the ward. Sent my friend away with a concussion. His brain was actually bleeding. He got sent away from that hospital 2 or 3 times minimum. We went to another one who are quite renowned for head cases (so my pal fit right in)...and a little oriental fellow ran a physical check of virtually every muscle in his body....push this, pull that etc...right down to the fingers and toes. (Failure to perform movements is one of the signs of possible brain damage)...this little guy...Korean or something, then booked my pal in for an MRI, no more messing around. It showed up a bleed (2 weeks he’d had it by this point - I think it must have scabbed over or something).
Same NHS, just different personnel. Luck of the draw, unfortunately. In retrospect, the very first guy we saw....big Mr Specialist.....I just hope he manages to justify his position in his other cases as he did nothing for my pal. Didn’t even recommend a scan - crap!
I know boxing is a choice, but the lads are still deserving of good care - that involves checking out who, what, why, where, when....plus follow-up appointments. This is the UK ffs.
I was very sorry, and sickened, to hear of Mike’s passing. It just sounds like a very familiar story as what happened to my pal. Bless him and his loved ones.

Was wondering about Tommy Martin other day , with him retiring after having a small bleed on the brain , did this only get picked when he had is annual brain scan ? Would it be possible for him to have no symptoms & and carry on as normal having no idea he had a small bleed from his last fight , seems like quite a big gap from his last fight to him announcing his retirement last week .

magwitch wrote:

TheCobra wrote:

Wales wrote:I thought all BBBOC licence fighters had to have an annual brain scan . In fact I'm sure there was a thread on here with a pro saying it's overkill making fighters have one so often(?)

NHS wise I guess they're prioritising people who have things wrong with the brain, like tumours, over sportsmen who have to have one to tick the box to compete - hence boxers all pay £600 to go private every year to have the scan, and I guess 99.9% come back all clear.

Terrible tragedy. A young man has died.

Yeh, unfortunately in this case it was a boxer who presented to them with crippling headaches. Alarm bells should have been ringing but that's the NHS for you. Budgets over everything.

A very close friend of mine was treated similarly by the NHS a while back. Some big swinging d*ck consultant from South Africa of all places just so happened to be visiting the ward. Sent my friend away with a concussion. His brain was actually bleeding. He got sent away from that hospital 2 or 3 times minimum. We went to another one who are quite renowned for head cases (so my pal fit right in)...and a little oriental fellow ran a physical check of virtually every muscle in his body....push this, pull that etc...right down to the fingers and toes. (Failure to perform movements is one of the signs of possible brain damage)...this little guy...Korean or something, then booked my pal in for an MRI, no more messing around. It showed up a bleed (2 weeks he’d had it by this point - I think it must have scabbed over or something).
Same NHS, just different personnel. Luck of the draw, unfortunately. In retrospect, the very first guy we saw....big Mr Specialist.....I just hope he manages to justify his position in his other cases as he did nothing for my pal. Didn’t even recommend a scan - crap!
I know boxing is a choice, but the lads are still deserving of good care - that involves checking out who, what, why, where, when....plus follow-up appointments. This is the UK ffs.
I was very sorry, and sickened, to hear of Mike’s passing. It just sounds like a very familiar story as what happened to my pal. Bless him and his loved ones.

A good friend of mine of almost 30 years has lung cancer; he had already been diagnosed with COPD, which put him at high risk of cancer, he complained of pain in between his shoulder blades and visited his gp several times, he was also a long term heavy smoker, the pain in the shoulder blade as it turns out is a classic symptom of lung cancer, caused by the tumour impinging on nerve bundles. The GP didn't refer him for any scans or anything, and sent him for physio for his shoulder, which did not get better. Two months ago, he suddenly found himself unable to breathe, and admitted himself to hospital, and it turned out he had an embolism in his lung and almost died, when they did a PET scan, they found three blood clots, and the tumour that had caused them, sadly, by then the tumour was already large, and fairly extensive. They gave him chemo, but it was too late, and the tumour has now spread beyond the point where Chemo will be effective, and he is no longer strong enough to withstand radiotherapy- there is nothing further they can do intervention wise, and it's a matter of palliative care and he has only a few months, possibly weeks to live.

Had the GP bothered to refer him, it may well have been picked up sooner, he had the pain in the shoulder blades for 18 months before he was admitted to hospital with the blood clots.

Many consultants seem to think they have god-like powers to diagnose people without resorting to such fripperies as diagnostic tools such as CT scans, MRI or the like. Unfortunately their decision is final, and they react badly to having their authority questioned, due to the hierarchical nature of the medical profession.

I know fighters have scans periodically to check they are OK- but in this case surely the board or promoter should have sent him for a private scan- perhaps something along those lines should be put in place, it's not as though it happens often so finance wise promoters or the board should be able to cover it

In 2007 I had a slight bleed on my brain from boxing for English title,I went to hospital straight after my fight and was told it was concussion.the following day I went on holiday for a week and suffered the worst head aches for the whole week. When I returned from my holiday I went back to hospital. They decided to do a ct scan and found a slight bleed on my brain which was re absorbing itself back into my brain, they called it a hematoma brain hemeridge.
They decided to keep me in hospital for 3 days for observation. I returned back to boxing 18month later and got my license back from the bbbc. I had 3 more fights and started suffering head aches which made me retire from the game. I can relate to how mike felt in the build up to his fight as when you done all the hard work and your so close to fight night the last thing you want to do is pull out.he would of thought it was down to making weight and things would of been ok.
Rip mike towell

Boxer goes to A&E after sparring session complaining of crippling headache and they give him simple migraine tablets and send him home??? Thats the problem right there, they turned a blind eye when they should have done their effin job and prevented this tragic death. Those who dealt with him should be held accountable.

There's a massive amount of red flags from this whole tragic event.

Its easy to point blame at the NHS for not carrying out a brain scan but it also highlights that the boxing authorities should have a process in place to prevent the NHS being relied upon so much. I do agree that someone who makes a living from combat sports deserves extra attention when headaches occur but with all the modern technology available it never fails to amaze me that someone can be entered into a prizefight and classed as fit to fight basically by standing on a set of scales. I understand that there are pre fight medicals in place but how much have they improved since the early days of boxing?

There is one thing stopping boxing from becoming safer and its called money.

Emmseegee wrote:There's a massive amount of red flags from this whole tragic event.

Its easy to point blame at the NHS for not carrying out a brain scan but it also highlights that the boxing authorities should have a process in place to prevent the NHS being relied upon so much. I do agree that someone who makes a living from combat sports deserves extra attention when headaches occur but with all the modern technology available it never fails to amaze me that someone can be entered into a prizefight and classed as fit to fight basically by standing on a set of scales. I understand that there are pre fight medicals in place but how much have they improved since the early days of boxing?

There is one thing stopping boxing from becoming safer and its called money.

I agree to an extent about the promoters or maybe the BBofC having a fund of money set aside for such times when it might be needed for things like this. I know a headache might be a common occurance every now and again for a boxer, but obviously most will know the difference between that and crippling headaches.

The problem with boxing at the lower end is there is just so little money on the table in the first place, so £600 is a big outlay for the boxer or the promoter to cover for a brain scan, when the ticket sales down at that level barely cover the cost of putting on a promotion.

We all pay more than enough taxes in this country that we should be able to rely on the NHS in times of special need like this. Anyone who goes in with bad headaches after a knock to the head would surely in all normality get a routine scan. I agree with others that there may be some kind of taking it lightly by the doctors because it's a boxer and not a 'civvy', which is totally wrong - maybe they are snobbish about it and see it as a stupid sport or self inflicted injury or whatever, which is again ridiculous and should never stop their duty of care.

At lower levels the money definitely isnt there but it is at the top, maybe its time for top promoters and sanctioning bodies to trim down their profits by using some cash to set an example and make the sport safer. It may not have helped in this case since it was a british title eliminator and not a show generating huge sums of money but realistically PPV cards could be scanning every fighter on the card as a precaution and still making huge profits. If I was staging a show with my name attached to it and could spend £10k on scans in the week before the fight whilst still making profit then Id see it as a good expense. It would reduce the chance of a brain injury live on tv broadcast to thousands, id see that as being a worthwhile cost to protect peoples health whilst also protecting my business and reputation.

Will that happen? No it wont.

I hate how people say boxing comes together also. I have had debates with Billy nelson but as a man I have nothing but respect! Kris carslaw also an absolute gent which I knew before. Ricky Hatton and Barry mcguigan donated 5k. Eddie Hearn put in 3 along with 3 for ticket sales. But apart from that it was fans who have pulled the sport out the mud. Where was the people's champ AJ who's very wealthy? Carl froch? David Haye? Tyson Fury? Eubanks? Benns? I see what people have done as amazing but my faith in boxing still is not there because in truth under 10 boxers donated.

It's staggering that the NHS had a boxer walk in, and decide that his spar session was purely coincidental with a migraine ?

I'd like to say it's a one off - but my mum almost lost most of the sight in her left eye 3 months ago after she was sent home with 'conjuctivitus' when in reality had a ulcer. She had to be put in a ward and given drops every 30 mins , all day and throughout the night for 2 consecutive days to halt it getting bigger. It was me that drove her to a different hospital and they actually told us to report the other place as the problem was staring them in the face if they'd bother to perform the checks.

Myself when I was 17 I had abscess at the base of my spine that was repeatedly told was maybe a pulled muscle from sitting on a chair at college, it was only when it actually burst through the flesh and I was bleeding everywhere did they admit their error and rush me into surgery, then spent 12 weeks almost bed ridden.

Elsewhere my nan was told 4 times over a six month period she had a water infection, when in reality had cancer, then died shortly after.

In conclusion, the NHS can either be brilliant or abysmal. It's a lottery.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Jesus, just read this thread, apologies for my inappropriate comment before, didn't mean to make light of it, but just hadn't read the thread.

I think this case highlights just how poorly regulated boxing is, considering that the BBBofC are considered to be one of the more diligent commissions, it's pretty shambolic.

Boxing really is a shitshow compared to other global sports when it comes to regulation.

Fair play, it did seem a little out of character. Like someone had hacked your account or something

Emmseegee wrote:There's a massive amount of red flags from this whole tragic event.

Its easy to point blame at the NHS for not carrying out a brain scan but it also highlights that the boxing authorities should have a process in place to prevent the NHS being relied upon so much. I do agree that someone who makes a living from combat sports deserves extra attention when headaches occur but with all the modern technology available it never fails to amaze me that someone can be entered into a prizefight and classed as fit to fight basically by standing on a set of scales. I understand that there are pre fight medicals in place but how much have they improved since the early days of boxing?

There is one thing stopping boxing from becoming safer and its called money.

Again we're back to the problem of boxing not being properly regulated.

The money is not controlled centrally, there's plenty of money in boxing globally for every single fighter to be having regular private brains scans, but sadly the money is not effectively distributed, and so we have these problems.

The BBBofC is hardly awash with cash, given it's history, and no doubt they do not have the money to pay for private brain scans at 600 lbs a pop, or to pay for private health insurance for boxers. To be fair, I doubt insurance companies would agree to offer policies to professional fighters anyway, far too high risk given chances of various injuries.

G0mez wrote:It's staggering that the NHS had a boxer walk in, and decide that his spar session was purely coincidental with a migraine ?

I'd like to say it's a one off - but my mum almost lost most of the sight in her left eye 3 months ago after she was sent home with 'conjuctivitus' when in reality had a ulcer. She had to be put in a ward and given drops every 30 mins , all day and throughout the night for 2 consecutive days to halt it getting bigger. It was me that drove her to a different hospital and they actually told us to report the other place as the problem was staring them in the face if they'd bother to perform the checks.

Myself when I was 17 I had abscess at the base of my spine that was repeatedly told was maybe a pulled muscle from sitting on a chair at college, it was only when it actually burst through the flesh and I was bleeding everywhere did they admit their error and rush me into surgery, then spent 12 weeks almost bed ridden.

Elsewhere my nan was told 4 times over a six month period she had a water infection, when in reality had cancer, then died shortly after.

In conclusion, the NHS can either be brilliant or abysmal. It's a lottery.

Totally same here with my experiences of the NHS, I tend towards the abysmal more often than not mate.