BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:AJ got a better chin, got more speed, got more strength, Lewis was taller compared to his opponents at the time, more flexible, more intelligent as well in, as outside the ring, and he's more patient.

AJ has a better chin? How do you draw that conclusion?

I'd guess a total lack of knowledge. Lennox went to war with mercer, holyfield and vitali. Joshua got buzzed by whyte. Smh, kmt.

Also took solid shots from lionel butler,tony tucker frank bruno and gary mason,its all a myth that lewis had a dicky chin he got knocked out twice by solid shots probabky because lewis had nor respect for the opposition,look what happened every time he thought he was in with a hard heavyweight-ruddock,golota and grant spring to mind,he gets them out of ther quick probably with a little fear in he his heart,then look at mcall and rahman,he has little respect for them and gets clocked in the right place at the right time. Lewis,like someone said previous has most of his teenages years ahead of joshua and has two olympic outings to his name.

gilgamesh wrote:Ask me again in at least 5 years.

good answer.

Wouldn't be fair to ask how Lewis, in his raw and careless phase, would match up against great heavyweight champions of the past either.

thechump wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:
AJ has a better chin? How do you draw that conclusion?

I'd guess a total lack of knowledge. Lennox went to war with mercer, holyfield and vitali. Joshua got buzzed by whyte. Smh, kmt.

Also took solid shots from lionel butler,tony tucker frank bruno and gary mason,its all a myth that lewis had a dicky chin he got knocked out twice by solid shots probabky because lewis had nor respect for the opposition,look what happened every time he thought he was in with a hard heavyweight-ruddock,golota and grant spring to mind,he gets them out of ther quick probably with a little fear in he his heart,then look at mcall and rahman,he has little respect for them and gets clocked in the right place at the right time. Lewis,like someone said previous has most of his teenages years ahead of joshua and has two olympic outings to his name.

Solid is somewhat of an understatement, they were both full blooded shots that would have felled a horse, in both cases Lewis was absolutely wide open as well, against McCall he was in the midst of throwing his own right (or was it left, trying to vistualise) had rotated into the shot when McCall threw his own bang on the button, something that he'd been working on with ...who was it, futch or steward who trained him for that fight - Christ the old noggin is going - the Rahman fight Lewis was blowing out his arse and in rather ungainly retreat with his hands down when Rahman chinned him with one hell of a shot.

Lewis didn't have the best chin, but there it wasn't suspect by any means, it's become a much repeated myth that he was chinny.

asdfjkl wrote:

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:AJ got a better chin, got more speed, got more strength, Lewis was taller compared to his opponents at the time, more flexible, more intelligent as well in, as outside the ring, and he's more patient.

AJ has a better chin? How do you draw that conclusion?

Just watch the Briggs fight for example, and it's not the only time Lewis loses a match or got in trouble. I've seen AJ being stunned indeed, but it wasn't like the match was nearly all over.

WTF are you on about?

No one genuinely believes Joshua is better than Lennox Lewis. What evidence can support such a notion? 17 fights against cans?

Lewis we know was a natural talent. Fathomless arsenal of punches, high ring IQ. Not as cunning as Ali and Holmes, not deadly when hurt like Holmes and Holyfield, but a bigger hitter than all of them. Would anyone pick Joshua against Vitali Klitschko? An old, jiggly Lewis had him reeling about the ring by round 6.

Joshua will poleaxe a C-level fighter, but he looks very much the 'made fighter', and they don't tend to ship punches well or be able to improvise much when in trouble. He looks to me like a weight lifter, one with the full machine behind him, and enjoying all of the advantages that that entails.

asdfjkl wrote:AJ got a better chin, got more speed, got more strength, Lewis was taller compared to his opponents at the time, more flexible, more intelligent as well in, as outside the ring, and he's more patient.

showing your age here are you about 12?

Might be controversial but after 17 fights I think Joshua has slightly the better resume and looked considerably more impressive in his manner of victories.

Will he go on to accomplish as much as Lennox did, I strongly doubt it, but who would have thought Lennox at that time would go onto improve and achieve what he did over such a prolonged time frame.

I think AJ looks far more polished in comparison to an early Lewis. I remember pundits even doubting his power until he took out Razor Rudduck.

I don't see any comparison to be honest.
Would be easier to compare AJ with Bruno at this point. LL had great movement which Joshua lacks

asdfjkl wrote:AJ got a better chin, got more speed, got more strength, Lewis was taller compared to his opponents at the time, more flexible, more intelligent as well in, as outside the ring, and he's more patient.

Better chin? What a strange statement.

To answer the question, he doesn't come close right now and probably never will imo.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

thechump wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
I'd guess a total lack of knowledge. Lennox went to war with mercer, holyfield and vitali. Joshua got buzzed by whyte. Smh, kmt.

Also took solid shots from lionel butler,tony tucker frank bruno and gary mason,its all a myth that lewis had a dicky chin he got knocked out twice by solid shots probabky because lewis had nor respect for the opposition,look what happened every time he thought he was in with a hard heavyweight-ruddock,golota and grant spring to mind,he gets them out of ther quick probably with a little fear in he his heart,then look at mcall and rahman,he has little respect for them and gets clocked in the right place at the right time. Lewis,like someone said previous has most of his teenages years ahead of joshua and has two olympic outings to his name.

Solid is somewhat of an understatement, they were both full blooded shots that would have felled a horse, in both cases Lewis was absolutely wide open as well, against McCall he was in the midst of throwing his own right (or was it left, trying to vistualise) had rotated into the shot when McCall threw his own bang on the button, something that he'd been working on with ...who was it, futch or steward who trained him for that fight - Christ the old noggin is going - the Rahman fight Lewis was blowing out his arse and in rather ungainly retreat with his hands down when Rahman chinned him with one hell of a shot.

Lewis didn't have the best chin, but there it wasn't suspect by any means, it's become a much repeated myth that he was chinny.

Manny steward,when lewis was fighting rahman ther was a big thing about him getting ther with not enough time to climatise,think he was filming something and thats why he couldnt get there any sooner. Watch tgat fight again and rahman throws the same shot 5 seconds before then lewis smiles as if to say "you nearly got me" then bang he ends up lookin at the lights

thechump wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

thechump wrote: Also took solid shots from lionel butler,tony tucker frank bruno and gary mason,its all a myth that lewis had a dicky chin he got knocked out twice by solid shots probabky because lewis had nor respect for the opposition,look what happened every time he thought he was in with a hard heavyweight-ruddock,golota and grant spring to mind,he gets them out of ther quick probably with a little fear in he his heart,then look at mcall and rahman,he has little respect for them and gets clocked in the right place at the right time. Lewis,like someone said previous has most of his teenages years ahead of joshua and has two olympic outings to his name.

Solid is somewhat of an understatement, they were both full blooded shots that would have felled a horse, in both cases Lewis was absolutely wide open as well, against McCall he was in the midst of throwing his own right (or was it left, trying to vistualise) had rotated into the shot when McCall threw his own bang on the button, something that he'd been working on with ...who was it, futch or steward who trained him for that fight - Christ the old noggin is going - the Rahman fight Lewis was blowing out his arse and in rather ungainly retreat with his hands down when Rahman chinned him with one hell of a shot.

Lewis didn't have the best chin, but there it wasn't suspect by any means, it's become a much repeated myth that he was chinny.

Manny steward,when lewis was fighting rahman ther was a big thing about him getting ther with not enough time to climatise,think he was filming something and thats why he couldnt get there any sooner. Watch tgat fight again and rahman throws the same shot 5 seconds before then lewis smiles as if to say "you nearly got me" then bang he ends up lookin at the lights

Yes, Lewis' own arrogance was his undoing, the fight was at altitude and Lewis was too busy showing off in Ocean's 11, to take the fight seriously, he cut corners, and paid the price. Lewis clearly hadn't adjusted to altitude, you could see he was blowing hard after a couple of rounds.

Lewis should never have allowed a bit part in a movie take precedence of his day job. Silly. I remember at the time telling everyone though that he'd annihilate Rahman in the rematch, and sanity was restored. Actually if you watch the first fight, Lewis was making mincemeat of him, before his stamina went, Rahman's face was a mess, all busted up from Lewis' ramrod jab.

Yes I remember, Lewis was talking more about Oceans 11 and Julia Roberts and Nelson Mandela than the actual fight. Awful mistake.

His conditioning was terrible vs Rahman in SA and Rahman was in almost as bad shape also.

Afterward Lennox said something like, I can't believe I let that happen - seemed gutted when cold reality hit him.

Rematch settled it!

Lewis had more natural ability than most champions in history.
Manny Steward turned this ability into the great fighter he became.
Joshua isn't on the same page when it comes to natural talent.

I was always disappointed Lewis never got his 'dance partner'

Louis had Schmelling, Ali had Frazier and Foreman.

Bowe and Lennox should of been the fighters of the era and fought each other. They were both super heavys and they would of enhanced each other's reputations. Yet BOTH teams messed the fight up at different stages and Bowe had zero longevity.

Lewis at this stage of his career was no better than Joshua really: one might argue that Joshua is slightly more accomplished after 16 fights.

He was reckless & over reliant on his big Right hand, but after McCall splattered him, he went out & got a better trainer & learned the fundementals.

Joshua is still a work in progress, but he doesn't look to have the fluidity that Lewis had later, although time will tell.

Too early to say. But at this point I would say Lennox late stoppage

Lennox takes him to school

PredatorHayds wrote:Lewis had more natural ability than most champions in history.
Manny Steward turned this ability into the great fighter he became.
Joshua isn't on the same page when it comes to natural talent.

I was always disappointed Lewis never got his 'dance partner'

Louis had Schmelling, Ali had Frazier and Foreman.

Bowe and Lennox should of been the fighters of the era and fought each other. They were both super heavys and they would of enhanced each other's reputations. Yet BOTH teams messed the fight up at different stages and Bowe had zero longevity.

I guess the closest was Holyfield, although at the time Holyfield was written off as a bit shopworn, with hindsight, those were still excellent wins, given how long Evander carried on to compete at top level.

Lewis v Bowe, what a fight that would have been, had it happened around the time it was first posited, I'd have gone for Bowe, he has a better all around game at that stage, and Lewis could be hit. Bowe has a great chin too, and a fantastic arsenal of punches, including a vicious uppercut on the inside. However, Bowe and his manager robbed the 90's of what could have been the best of that heavyweight era.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

PredatorHayds wrote:Lewis had more natural ability than most champions in history.
Manny Steward turned this ability into the great fighter he became.
Joshua isn't on the same page when it comes to natural talent.

I was always disappointed Lewis never got his 'dance partner'

Louis had Schmelling, Ali had Frazier and Foreman.

Bowe and Lennox should of been the fighters of the era and fought each other. They were both super heavys and they would of enhanced each other's reputations. Yet BOTH teams messed the fight up at different stages and Bowe had zero longevity.

I guess the closest was Holyfield, although at the time Holyfield was written off as a bit shopworn, with hindsight, those were still excellent wins, given how long Evander carried on to compete at top level.

Lewis v Bowe, what a fight that would have been, had it happened around the time it was first posited, I'd have gone for Bowe, he has a better all around game at that stage, and Lewis could be hit. Bowe has a great chin too, and a fantastic arsenal of punches, including a vicious uppercut on the inside. However, Bowe and his manager robbed the 90's of what could have been the best of that heavyweight era.

I think the Bruno and Mercer fights prove that Lewis struggled with strong plodding guys. I think Joshua has a chance. If he landed like McCall or Rahman, then Lewis is out. I think Lewis by late stoppage.

I was actually thinking about this today while I was watching Lewis face Derek Williams. Lennox looked quite aweful in that fight. That was his 20th fight.

If todays Joshua fought the Lennox Lewis of 20 fights I would give AJ a bloody good chance. But Lewis improved a great deal after that fight and the Lennox Lewis of 1992 (Ruddock) onward would be too much for Joshua. The big difference in the 2 is that Lennox improved a great deal late 1992 and advanced where as AJ has been the same since he was a pro, there hasnt been a great deal of improvement that has been noticeable.

The Jury is out on AJ as there isnt the quality of the 1990's as there is in 2016 so its hard to tell how good Joshua really is.

Boxerbeetle wrote:In terms of talent, Joshua is a lot closer to Bruno than he is to Lewis.

This is always the comparison I've made.

Lewis levels him IMO.

That opinion may change slightly in the fullness of time but i'll be shocked if Joshua ever masters his art to a point where I'd favour him over Lewis, I just don't see the room for improvement and think he is too limited in certain areas of his game.

There is always the disclaimer that Joshua has a punchers chance against Lewis of course.

mimmy123 wrote:I was actually thinking about this today while I was watching Lewis face Derek Williams. Lennox looked quite aweful in that fight. That was his 20th fight.

If todays Joshua fought the Lennox Lewis of 20 fights I would give AJ a bloody good chance. But Lewis improved a great deal after that fight and the Lennox Lewis of 1992 (Ruddock) onward would be too much for Joshua. The big difference in the 2 is that Lennox improved a great deal late 1992 and advanced where as AJ has been the same since he was a pro, there hasnt been a great deal of improvement that has been noticeable.

The Jury is out on AJ as there isnt the quality of the 1990's as there is in 2016 so its hard to tell how good Joshua really is.

Spot on mate.

Derek Williams always had a good first round, then couldn't follow it up in the bigger fights.

Lewis was a special fighter, I don't see that with Joshua yet.

I remember Lewis boxing Mason, and he proved he was the real deal then.

gazza8 wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:AJ got a better chin, got more speed, got more strength, Lewis was taller compared to his opponents at the time, more flexible, more intelligent as well in, as outside the ring, and he's more patient.

showing your age here are you about 12?

I don't even understand what you're trying to say or ask.

mimmy123 wrote:I was actually thinking about this today while I was watching Lewis face Derek Williams. Lennox looked quite aweful in that fight. That was his 20th fight.

If todays Joshua fought the Lennox Lewis of 20 fights I would give AJ a bloody good chance. But Lewis improved a great deal after that fight and the Lennox Lewis of 1992 (Ruddock) onward would be too much for Joshua. The big difference in the 2 is that Lennox improved a great deal late 1992 and advanced where as AJ has been the same since he was a pro, there hasnt been a great deal of improvement that has been noticeable.

The Jury is out on AJ as there isnt the quality of the 1990's as there is in 2016 so its hard to tell how good Joshua really is.

On the money.

Lewis was a very reckless fighter early on & Pepe Correa just didn't teach him the basics at all.

He looked fairly decent against Mason & Gary was a good fighter, but that's one of his few early bouts where I was truly impressed with him.

I think the Ruddock victory was actually detrimental to him, because he thought he was the finished article, on the way to greatness. He didn't actually look that great against Tucker & Bruno in '93, as he was still a bit reckless & lacking polish.

It took a spectacular loss to McCall & a change of trainer before Lewis came of age.

I think mimmy123 has nailed it.

Current Joshua beats early Lewis, but Lewis has/had a higher ceiling.

You can get quite far in heavyweight boxing by being big and strong and possessing a good jab but the absolute greats all had something extra.