BoxRec

caldo2025 wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:In terms of the average total punch count for his last three fights, Manny Pacquiao barely managed to throw in excess of 400 punches, but when you compare this figure to some of his earlier 147lb fights:
• Chris Algieri = 669
• Brandon Rios = 790
• Timothy Bradley (1st fight) = 751
• Shane Mosley = 727
• Antonio Margarito = 1069
• Joshua Clottey = 1231
• Miguel Cotto = 780

The evidence clearly suggests that one of Manny’s main physical advantages has eroded with age, which is his legendary high work-rate.

And when you consider this decline, coupled with the fact the Filipino legend hasn’t stopped an opponent for seven years, the this leads me to believe that Pacquiao has become extremely beatable… and it seems inevitable that he will suffer another loss on his resume in the very short-term (if he's not matched carefully).

You are approaching Troll-like status at this point with the garbage that you sling at the wall trying to get people angered enough to give you some attention that you obviously crave for some reason. Maybe you're lonely. For that, i'm sorry. But, you seem like an intelligent enough individual. Have you ever tried making an honest point without the shock and yawn approach?

Manny is 37 years old. He walks around at 144 pounds. Has zip for reach and height but he's competing at 147, calling out anyone that will fight him and he's getting dodged. In his last 4 fights, he's got 9 knockdowns. Name another boxer in your dream world top 147 pounders that has that kind of statistic facing world class boxers? Last weekend, he stepped into the ring with talented boxer that outweighed him and giving up 4 inches in reach, he clearly outboxed Vargas and got the win. I found the victory to be impressive and those that don't, are probably Floyd Rump Swabs that were never going to be impressed anyway.

Is Manny's output down? Sure. He was the most dynamic boxer in the history of the sport. He also fought carelessly and suffered the ultimate penalty for doing so. JMM put him to sleep and now he's smarter in the ring to stay away from the defenseless all out assault he's famous for. But that's being smart. He's winning. More impressively than Floyd's garbage victories where his opponent wouldn't have a scratch on his face or even come close to touching the canvas. Floyd's has ONE knockdown in his last 9 fights and that was a dive by Ortiz and a bush league exchange. Manny's winning using his head, just like your hero Floyd. But Manny is doing it with lethal punching as well.

I’ve got thick skin, so you can insult me as much as your heart desires, but the facts I’ve quoted are irrefutable. It seems that you’re angry at the messenger for accurately describing reality, which obviously doesn’t concur with the way that you would prefer the real world to be.

Put it this way, do you get angry at the weather man for telling you it’s going to rain? Do you get annoyed at the tannoy system at airports, instead of the airlines, if it announces that your flight is going to be delayed? Do you spout all sorts of hate and vitriol at the screen you’re looking at if it informs you your bank balance is overdrawn?

I watched the Pacquiao-Vargas fight live an instantly picked-up on the point that Manny’s work-rate had dipped significantly. I even submitted my personal scoring of the fight in real-time after each round in another thread and I raised my concerns about Pacquiao’s work-rate as early as the first round. In fact, many boxing writers commented on the same issue also, so I clearly didn’t make a provocative claim.

So I decided to do some research and instantly recognised the fact that Manny’s work-rate for his last three bouts was very low in comparison to the figures he typically achieved up until the end of 2014.

Everyone knows that Team Pacquiao blamed Manny’s injured shoulder as the reason for his low work-rate during the Mayweather fight, but even when he had “recovered” from this “injury”, his total punch count pretty much remained the same for both of his subsequent bouts. And this is a fact. So stop crying about it and getting angry at me, as I can't take the blame for Pacquiao's physical decline.

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:In terms of the average total punch count for his last three fights, Manny Pacquiao barely managed to throw in excess of 400 punches, but when you compare this figure to some of his earlier 147lb fights:
• Chris Algieri = 669
• Brandon Rios = 790
• Timothy Bradley (1st fight) = 751
• Shane Mosley = 727
• Antonio Margarito = 1069
• Joshua Clottey = 1231
• Miguel Cotto = 780

The evidence clearly suggests that one of Manny’s main physical advantages has eroded with age, which is his legendary high work-rate.

And when you consider this decline, coupled with the fact the Filipino legend hasn’t stopped an opponent for seven years, the this leads me to believe that Pacquiao has become extremely beatable… and it seems inevitable that he will suffer another loss on his resume in the very short-term (if he's not matched carefully).

You are approaching Troll-like status at this point with the garbage that you sling at the wall trying to get people angered enough to give you some attention that you obviously crave for some reason. Maybe you're lonely. For that, i'm sorry. But, you seem like an intelligent enough individual. Have you ever tried making an honest point without the shock and yawn approach?

Manny is 37 years old. He walks around at 144 pounds. Has zip for reach and height but he's competing at 147, calling out anyone that will fight him and he's getting dodged. In his last 4 fights, he's got 9 knockdowns. Name another boxer in your dream world top 147 pounders that has that kind of statistic facing world class boxers? Last weekend, he stepped into the ring with talented boxer that outweighed him and giving up 4 inches in reach, he clearly outboxed Vargas and got the win. I found the victory to be impressive and those that don't, are probably Floyd Rump Swabs that were never going to be impressed anyway.

Is Manny's output down? Sure. He was the most dynamic boxer in the history of the sport. He also fought carelessly and suffered the ultimate penalty for doing so. JMM put him to sleep and now he's smarter in the ring to stay away from the defenseless all out assault he's famous for. But that's being smart. He's winning. More impressively than Floyd's garbage victories where his opponent wouldn't have a scratch on his face or even come close to touching the canvas. Floyd's has ONE knockdown in his last 9 fights and that was a dive by Ortiz and a bush league exchange. Manny's winning using his head, just like your hero Floyd. But Manny is doing it with lethal punching as well.

I’ve got thick skin, so you can insult me as much as your heart desires, but the facts I’ve quoted are irrefutable. It seems that you’re angry at the messenger for accurately describing reality, which obviously doesn’t concur with the way that you would prefer the real world to be.

Put it this way, do you get angry at the weather man for telling you it’s going to rain? Do you get annoyed at the tannoy system at airports, instead of the airlines, if it announces that your flight is going to be delayed? Do you spout all sorts of hate and vitriol at the screen you’re looking at if it informs you your bank balance is overdrawn?

I watched the Pacquiao-Vargas fight live an instantly picked-up on the point that Manny’s work-rate had dipped significantly. I even submitted my personal scoring of the fight in real-time after each round in another thread and I raised my concerns about Pacquiao’s work-rate as early as the first round. In fact, many boxing writers commented on the same issue also, so I clearly didn’t make a provocative claim.

So I decided to do some research and instantly recognised the fact that Manny’s work-rate for his last three bouts was very low in comparison to the figures he typically achieved up until the end of 2014.

Everyone knows that Team Pacquiao blamed Manny’s injured shoulder as the reason for his low work-rate during the Mayweather fight, but even when he had “recovered” from this “injury”, his total punch count pretty much remained the same for both of his subsequent bouts. And this is a fact. So stop crying about it and getting angry at me, as I can't take the blame for Pacquiao's physical decline.

I can tell that you've never played a sport on any upper level with this huge "discovery" like you just split the atom. I'm sure that you must have heard the old adage that "styles make fights". Maybe you've heard it so many times it's a cliche at this point but if you took a second to understand what it meant, you'd realize that Boxing is a dance that requires two dance partners working together to make a fight entertaining. This is true in most sports but especially in Boxing. For instance, you sit here blaming Manny for his work rate in his fight with Floyd but anyone with a brain could tell you that Floyd was in a defensive shell for most of the fight and should have been penalized for holding Manny over and over again when he was trying to score but when you own the ref that night, holding is never going to cost you. Watch that fight again and count the times Floyd holds Manny. It was at least 5 times per round. Couple that with the fact that Floyd is probably the greatest defensive fighter in history, you choose to blame Manny for somehow not throwing more punches.

But dude, the guy is 37. Of course his workmate is going to slow a bit anyway. But Manny has had 3 highly technical chess matches in his last 4 fights with great counter punchers. You don't need to be Einstein to realize that the more you throw against a good corner puncher the more you get hit. So there's yet another factor ruining your discovery, Magellan. You can complain all you want as a Manny Hater but I think he's fighting smart in his old age and still picking spots to throw bombs marked by his 9 knockdowns in his last 4 fights.

So you correctly identified that Manny's numbers have dropped but you incorrectly diagnosed the case and repercussion. Boxers get smarter when they lose ability due to age and that's all that we are seeing here. I'd argue that he's a more effective boxer with the patience he now has. Roach has been trying to get him to do this for years.

Anytime you get coldcocked in front of Mitt Romney, you have a problem. Should have been retired years ago, greed caught up to him.