BoxRec

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

Think u need to watch the fight again ward thought it was a hug fest through out the fight only round 7 he came out with intent to throw punches then went back to holding again

Tanzio wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:Not only is it legal now, it's scored more favourably than punches by they pensioners they get to sit ringside.

If that is true, Krusher was robbed.

Are u serious????

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:Kovalev initiated just as many clinches as ward if not more. You people are blind. Literally almost anytime ward got within close range kovaleve immediately grabbed and smothered him. It was kind of like how Amir khan fought devon and collazo.

Kovalev has no inside game--thats why he prevents anyone from fighting at that range. There, I said it.

Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

Because kov had to resort to pushing and pulling as ward would not stop grabbing and holding,now that mayweather is retired ward has taken his place as the no.1 p4p holder grabber in boxing

thechump wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:Kovalev initiated just as many clinches as ward if not more. You people are blind. Literally almost anytime ward got within close range kovaleve immediately grabbed and smothered him. It was kind of like how Amir khan fought devon and collazo.

Kovalev has no inside game--thats why he prevents anyone from fighting at that range. There, I said it.

Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

Because kov had to resort to pushing and pulling as ward would not stop grabbing and holding,now that mayweather is retired ward has taken his place as the no.1 p4p holder grabber in boxing

You are being biased. Both men held equally throughout the fight.
Most of Kovalev's holds were under his left arm.

Go back and actually watch the fight. Don't just look for reason Kovalev won.

thechump wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

Think u need to watch the fight again ward thought it was a hug fest through out the fight only round 7 he came out with intent to throw punches then went back to holding again

I don't need to watch the bout again. My recollection of events is correct.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

thechump wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

Because kov had to resort to pushing and pulling as ward would not stop grabbing and holding,now that mayweather is retired ward has taken his place as the no.1 p4p holder grabber in boxing

You are being biased. Both men held equally throughout the fight.
Most of Kovalev's holds were under his left arm.

Go back and actually watch the fight. Don't just look for reason Kovalev won.

Biased for what reason? Didnt bother me who won

Like i said.

People see what they want to see.

Kovalev initiated several clinches in the first half and even got a warning from the ref for it.

Cygnus475 wrote:Like i said.

People see what they want to see.

Kovalev initiated several clinches in the first half and even got a warning from the ref for it.

Kovalev won the first round,and then he decisively won the second round,and that knockdown made Ward realize he cant fight Kovalev and win,so he then proceeded to go into his proverbial "Dirty Streetfighting SchoolYard Kid" mode,because he knew he was going to lose,and lose badly if he didnt resort to his lame cheater tactics. Kovalev soon realized that Ward is not going to fight him like a real actual boxer,and so then he had no choice but to Fight a Brilliant-Cheater with his own improvised Cheatery even though Kovalev is naturally a fan pleasing type of "Real-Boxer".

But he was unfortunately FORCED to employ his own stash of holding tactics with a slick,clever schoolyard fighter type of style in Ward. Thing is though,the majority of Ward's so called nice-bodyshots,were done while he was clinching up with Kovalev. Ward got tired of holding because his clinch strength was starting to diminish and he had a good 11th round,but too bad he didnt fight like this throughout. This could've been a great fight,but i think Kovalev would've won if Ward wasnt so into clinching,grabbing,and doing his grappling,and his technique of hold and bop to the gut.

It's really amazing to hear how some people just don't see the fight as it really was. Both guys held, wrestled, pushed, shoved over and over. It was completely even. Part of the fight.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote: Why aren't more people at least seeing the Kovalev clinching part?

Because of perception. Theres a narrative and people refuse to look at it outside of this picture they've painted.

The slugger nowadays is always the brave warrior and a victim in any fight that goes the distance whether it was close or not. Their fans are the biggest whiners ironically. They get the benefit of the doubt even if they are unable to adapt or most of their punches are blocked on the arms or clearly miss the crowd goes crazy and you have weird punch stats.

The technician or speedy fighters are automatically "cowards", "duckers", "runners", "grabbers", and homosexuals...even if they land more punches or score a knockdown. In Ward's case he didnt even initiate that many clinches he had to complain to the ref about kov squeezing his neck and the ref gave kov at least two warnings.

Some people were influenced to think this way by charismatic commentators, writers, and posters. Others know the truth but refuse to admit it.

I haven't seen ward-kov yet, but as a general comment you are very much on-point here

I think there are seperate, amply populated sides with their own narratives, and I've seen plenty of renowed technicians get credit for handily outboxing someone when hardily anything occured, as if people have it built in that whatever the technician does or doesn't do is part of some brilliantly orchestrated and executed plan. Similarly, while many criticize Ward and Hopkins for holding, plenty consider this perfectly valid craftiness and defensive skill on their end, while at the same time moaning when someone like Wlad, who is still seen more as a banger IMO, does the same.

In this case I believe Ward got the benefit of the doubt from numerous people; the generally slow, low output action fit more with the narrative of a succesful fight for the technical boxer, and it doesn't surprise me that so many claim to have given Ward most of the rounds they saw as arguable.

I think those saying this is Ward hating because Kovalev held as well are missing the point that this fight didn't happen in isolation, it happened after years of Ward being allowed to play dirty with the rules in close, so of course Kovalev adopted a tactic that is going to try to nullify Ward's illegal tactics, that his tactic is illegal is irrelevant at that point. What I'd dispute about the thread is that it is considered legal now. It isn't, it is considered legal and smart tactics when you're the big name that the media keep calling smart for doing it and openly praising for doing it. If you're the guy in the other corner and you start doing it and roughing up the house fighter on the inside you'll find out very quickly it isn't considered legal for nobodies to do it.

thechump wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

Think u need to watch the fight again ward thought it was a hug fest through out the fight only round 7 he came out with intent to throw punches then went back to holding again

You are kidding. Krusher held for the majority of the bout to stop Ward working inside. Your argument is going against the guy you believe won the fight.

amwsnw wrote:

thechump wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:Krusher held Ward for the first half of the fight to prevent Ward from working on the inside. So if you're going to criticise holding, both men were at fault.

Think u need to watch the fight again ward thought it was a hug fest through out the fight only round 7 he came out with intent to throw punches then went back to holding again

You are kidding. Krusher held for the majority of the bout to stop Ward working inside. Your argument is going against the guy you believe won the fight.

I suggest u watch the fight again pal,ward was the instigator for the majority of the holding. Kov did hold but not to the extent of ward and thats why he was walking ward into the ropes cause thats all he could do,ward had his arms tied up

AngryGoon38 wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:Like i said.

People see what they want to see.

Kovalev initiated several clinches in the first half and even got a warning from the ref for it.

Kovalev won the first round,and then he decisively won the second round,and that knockdown made Ward realize he cant fight Kovalev and win,so he then proceeded to go into his proverbial "Dirty Streetfighting SchoolYard Kid" mode,because he knew he was going to lose,and lose badly if he didnt resort to his lame cheater tactics. Kovalev soon realized that Ward is not going to fight him like a real actual boxer,and so then he had no choice but to Fight a Brilliant-Cheater with his own improvised Cheatery even though Kovalev is naturally a fan pleasing type of "Real-Boxer".

But he was unfortunately FORCED to employ his own stash of holding tactics with a slick,clever schoolyard fighter type of style in Ward. Thing is though,the majority of Ward's so called nice-bodyshots,were done while he was clinching up with Kovalev. Ward got tired of holding because his clinch strength was starting to diminish and he had a good 11th round,but too bad he didnt fight like this throughout. This could've been a great fight,but i think Kovalev would've won if Ward wasnt so into clinching,grabbing,and doing his grappling,and his technique of hold and bop to the gut.

"AngryLoon" would be more accurate.

Ward won the first round. He survived the second round. He controlled the fight thereafter. You need to go back and watch the fight. The grabbing and mauling were equal. Krusher has a weak inside game so he was locking Ward up every time he tried to get inside. It was a necessary tactic because without it Krusher would have been ground into pulp.

It was a battle for control of distance that Ward won.

I think holding or clinching has it's place, whatever it takes to negate the opponents strengths. Sure it can make for ugly fights but everybody does it at some point, granted some more than others, and it doesn't do their mass appeal any favours but there it is. I'm loathe to watch a clinch fest myself and some take it too far on occasion but some style clashes, circumstances and referees can play their part.

Holding for defensive purposes after getting rocked is all well and good.

Holding as a means of getting off your offense shouldn't be. That's just a watered down ice hockey fight.

to be fair I don't think ward had any other choice but to fight "ugly" to get the win, any other way and he would have probably been stopped

Jip wrote:exactly, well pointed out. holding nowadays is called "great technique" and floyd and ward who hold a lot are therefore "great technicians" lol

It is. If Hearns could hold, he probably would've beaten Leonard the first time around.

AngryGoon38 wrote:

Cygnus475 wrote:Like i said.

People see what they want to see.

Kovalev initiated several clinches in the first half and even got a warning from the ref for it.

Kovalev won the first round,and then he decisively won the second round,and that knockdown made Ward realize he cant fight Kovalev and win,so he then proceeded to go into his proverbial "Dirty Streetfighting SchoolYard Kid" mode,because he knew he was going to lose,and lose badly if he didnt resort to his lame cheater tactics. Kovalev soon realized that Ward is not going to fight him like a real actual boxer,and so then he had no choice but to Fight a Brilliant-Cheater with his own improvised Cheatery even though Kovalev is naturally a fan pleasing type of "Real-Boxer".

But he was unfortunately FORCED to employ his own stash of holding tactics with a slick,clever schoolyard fighter type of style in Ward. Thing is though,the majority of Ward's so called nice-bodyshots,were done while he was clinching up with Kovalev. Ward got tired of holding because his clinch strength was starting to diminish and he had a good 11th round,but too bad he didnt fight like this throughout. This could've been a great fight,but i think Kovalev would've won if Ward wasnt so into clinching,grabbing,and doing his grappling,and his technique of hold and bop to the gut.

Please point out where all these fouls ward did are, round by round.

And someone else fouling doesnt justify the other fighter fouling. Idk why people keep making this stupid argument to diminish kovalev's role in all of this.