BoxRec

Caractacus wrote:

littlepug wrote:it all comes down to your own personal perspective, I think to a lot of people kovalov was using effective aggression to stalk ward, but to me it looked like ward had an invisible rope round kovs neck that he used to lead him round wherever he wanted, and when ward wanted to stand still so did kov when in fact he should of been pressing on and cutting off the ring, on top of that kov did nothing inside whereas ward rarely stopped hitting the body when inside, thats called ringcraft folks, it wasn't pretty but was the only way ward could overcome the odds to get the win

The only person I ever heard of who used an invisible rope was Wonder Woman.

And now ward

Caractacus wrote:

littlepug wrote:it all comes down to your own personal perspective, I think to a lot of people kovalov was using effective aggression to stalk ward, but to me it looked like ward had an invisible rope round kovs neck that he used to lead him round wherever he wanted, and when ward wanted to stand still so did kov when in fact he should of been pressing on and cutting off the ring, on top of that kov did nothing inside whereas ward rarely stopped hitting the body when inside, thats called ringcraft folks, it wasn't pretty but was the only way ward could overcome the odds to get the win

The only person I ever heard of who used an invisible rope was Wonder Woman.

Do you know what an analogy is?

Enlightened-One wrote:

Caractacus wrote:

littlepug wrote:it all comes down to your own personal perspective, I think to a lot of people kovalov was using effective aggression to stalk ward, but to me it looked like ward had an invisible rope round kovs neck that he used to lead him round wherever he wanted, and when ward wanted to stand still so did kov when in fact he should of been pressing on and cutting off the ring, on top of that kov did nothing inside whereas ward rarely stopped hitting the body when inside, thats called ringcraft folks, it wasn't pretty but was the only way ward could overcome the odds to get the win

The only person I ever heard of who used an invisible rope was Wonder Woman.

Do you know what an analogy is?

yes

littlepug wrote:if kovalov knew how to cut off the ring he would still be champ

I agree, I've mentioned Kovalev not being able to cut off the ring a few times. A lot of people just don't seem to have noticed that Kovalev was following Ward around the ring. If Kovalev could cut off the ring like Golovkin can, he would have stopped Ward before the halfway point imo.

littlepug wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Caractacus wrote: The only person I ever heard of who used an invisible rope was Wonder Woman.

Do you know what an analogy is?

yes

Ha ha just "seen" it, was totally unintentional, well picked up sir

Because he won 7 rounds.

littlepug wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

Caractacus wrote: The only person I ever heard of who used an invisible rope was Wonder Woman.

Do you know what an analogy is?

yes

The question was aimed at Caractacus

No. Kovalev hates the current Russia and the government.

He is perfect example of an athlete that the Russian government loathes:

Was a nobody in Russia -> Came to America, became a superstar and made millions of dollars

America ended up becoming his home and he says he would never return.

What the Russian government wants is for their athletes to fight in Russia and praise their government after fights.

They want people in Russia to know as little as possible about guys like Kovalev, who clearly accomplished a thousand times more than he ever could in Russia.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Caractacus wrote:

littlepug wrote:it all comes down to your own personal perspective, I think to a lot of people kovalov was using effective aggression to stalk ward, but to me it looked like ward had an invisible rope round kovs neck that he used to lead him round wherever he wanted, and when ward wanted to stand still so did kov when in fact he should of been pressing on and cutting off the ring, on top of that kov did nothing inside whereas ward rarely stopped hitting the body when inside, thats called ringcraft folks, it wasn't pretty but was the only way ward could overcome the odds to get the win

The only person I ever heard of who used an invisible rope was Wonder Woman.

Do you know what an analogy is?

yeah,thats the thing that the doctor puts up your sprinkter to check for colon cancer.

klitoris wrote:No. Kovalev hates the current Russia and the government.

He is perfect example of an athlete that the Russian government loathes:

Was a nobody in Russia -> Came to America, became a superstar and made millions of dollars

America ended up becoming his home and he says he would never return.

What the Russian government wants is for their athletes to fight in Russia and praise their government after fights.

They want people in Russia to know as little as possible about guys like Kovalev, who clearly accomplished a thousand times more than he ever could in Russia.

Yes, You know that and I know that.
But its too bad those dufus judges didnt know it when they were helping Ward on the scorecards..

114-113 is an awful close fight. In any country, regardless of titles/significance, the hometown or home country fighter is likely gonna get that decision. I don't think Ward did more damage than Kovalev, the points were close but it's a fight. The point is to do damage. Sergei did a lil more of that, that's probably why it seems like such a harsh decision. I enjoy stickin' the needle in when discussing it but in truth Sergei has good reason to be pissed. Andre got the benefit of every doubt. I thought it was a great comeback and Dre worked the body wonderfully, the effects were obvious, but he started a round too late maybe 2 rounds late. I'm a dedicated Ward fan but he got pretty lucky. If one guy deserved that fight it was Sergei. And I did take 3 doses of Flu medicine so I will certainly deny I said any of this. But yes, there it is.

Aside from the 10th round, the judges did a good job. They even gave the 3rd round to Kovalev, which I thought was a close round to Ward. They also gave Kovalev the 4th and 6th rounds, which I agree with, but they were close rounds, so to say that Ward got the benefit of the doubt in every close round is simply wrong.

The fact is, boxing is scored round-by-round, as based on that, there's a good case for Ward winning a close fight.
If it were based on Compubox, Kovalev wins, no question.
If it were based on how their faces looked after the fight, Kovalev wins, no question.
If you go by the logic that close rounds should go to the champion (which isn't a rule of boxing), Kovalev wins, no question.

Everyone crying robbery either:
a) is biased against Ward (Freedom, among others)
b) is a biased Kovalev fan (Freedom, among others)
c) was influenced by the HBO commentary and Lederman's scorecard (see Roy Jones)
d) isn't a very good judge (see Harold Lederman)
e) has a different definition of robbery than I do (Steven A. Smith comes under this category, he had it 114-113 Kovalev, but called the decision a robbery)

SFW wrote:114-113 is an awful close fight. In any country, regardless of titles/significance, the hometown or home country fighter is likely gonna get that decision. I don't think Ward did more damage than Kovalev, the points were close but it's a fight. The point is to do damage. Sergei did a lil more of that, that's probably why it seems like such a harsh decision. I enjoy stickin' the needle in when discussing it but in truth Sergei has good reason to be pissed. Andre got the benefit of every doubt. I thought it was a great comeback and Dre worked the body wonderfully, the effects were obvious, but he started a round too late maybe 2 rounds late. I'm a dedicated Ward fan but he got pretty lucky. If one guy deserved that fight it was Sergei. And I did take 3 doses of Flu medicine so I will certainly deny I said any of this. But yes, there it is.

Respect

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Because he won 7 rounds.

Which ones?

SFW wrote:114-113 is an awful close fight. In any country, regardless of titles/significance, the hometown or home country fighter is likely gonna get that decision. I don't think Ward did more damage than Kovalev, the points were close but it's a fight. The point is to do damage. Sergei did a lil more of that, that's probably why it seems like such a harsh decision. I enjoy stickin' the needle in when discussing it but in truth Sergei has good reason to be pissed. Andre got the benefit of every doubt. I thought it was a great comeback and Dre worked the body wonderfully, the effects were obvious, but he started a round too late maybe 2 rounds late. I'm a dedicated Ward fan but he got pretty lucky. If one guy deserved that fight it was Sergei. And I did take 3 doses of Flu medicine so I will certainly deny I said any of this. But yes, there it is.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Because he won 7 rounds.

Which ones?

I had Ward winning rounds 3 (close), 5 (close), 7 (clear), 8 (clear), 9 (close), 11 (clear) and 12 (close)
I gave Kovalev winnings rounds 1 (clear), 2(KD), 4 (close), 6 (close) and 10 (clear)

I came into the fight pretty neutral, but after the first couple of rounds I was hoping for Kovalev to knock him out. When waiting for the decision I was conflicted, because I'd spent the whole fight wanting Kovalev to win, but felt Ward was slightly more deserving of the decision.

Too each their own, I thought 3 & 12 were clear kovalev rounds.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Too each their own, I thought 3 & 12 were clear kovalev rounds.

I certainly think they can fairly be given to Kovalev, but they're far from clear IMO. Please let me know your thoughts when you eventually get around to rewatching.

Enlightened-One wrote:

littlepug wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote: Do you know what an analogy is?

yes

The question was aimed at Caractacus

Oh right ! cos reading it back it looked like I had sabotaged my own post

Caractacus wrote:because Kovalev was a Russian and Vladimir Putin is a Russian too
and in their nutty liberal minds ,
Putin equals Trump and are best buds
so they couldnt possibly give the fight to Kovalev if it meant a Russian champion if they could help it
(and they did)
particularly when the 10th round started and knew Kovalev was winning on points going in to it.
Its all about Politics as usual.
What you think ?

I think the judges are internet trolls who liked nothing better than stirring up a good barney on Boxrec.

However, I bet even they never thought they'd hear such far fetched conspiracy theory hogwash!

jezzamundo wrote:
I had Ward winning rounds 3 (close), 5 (close), 7 (clear), 8 (clear), 9 (close), 11 (clear) and 12 (close)

Ward didn't win a single round clearly.
He never had control of the fight, never hurt Kovalev and never could land his right efficiently.

But you have to attribute him "clear" rounds, otherwise you couldn't justify unilaterally attributing to him 80% of all these close rds, and thus couldn't declare him the winner without people smelling the bull****.

crow wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
I had Ward winning rounds 3 (close), 5 (close), 7 (clear), 8 (clear), 9 (close), 11 (clear) and 12 (close)

Ward didn't win a single round clearly.
He never had control of the fight, never hurt Kovalev and never could land his right efficiently.

But you have to attribute him "clear" rounds, otherwise you couldn't justify unilaterally attributing to him 80% of all these close rds, and thus couldn't declare him the winner without people smelling the bull****.

The only thing that smells (actually reeks) is whatever that is oozing from your injured butt.

Tanzio wrote: The only thing that smells (actually reeks) is whatever is oozing from my incessant, putrid internet trolling

Fixed.

crow wrote:

Tanzio wrote: The only thing that smells (actually reeks) is whatever is oozing from my incessant, putrid internet trolling

Fixed.

Correct, you are a troll, croward. Go see a doctor, you're stinking up the joint with your self pity.

How many fights have you scored realtime on here again, croward?

crow wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
I had Ward winning rounds 3 (close), 5 (close), 7 (clear), 8 (clear), 9 (close), 11 (clear) and 12 (close)

Ward didn't win a single round clearly.
He never had control of the fight, never hurt Kovalev and never could land his right efficiently.

But you have to attribute him "clear" rounds, otherwise you couldn't justify unilaterally attributing to him 80% of all these close rds, and thus couldn't declare him the winner without people smelling the bull****.

We will have to agree to disagree. People score fights differently and it doesn't mean they are biased - sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. In this case, I'm a fairly impartial judge - I didn't mind who won the fight, but I wanted to see Kovalev knock Ward out.

I suggest you rewatch the fight, because rounds 7, 8 and 11 were most definitely clear Ward rounds. Not dominant, but clear, as in scoring them for Kovalev would be wrong and indicate a degree of incompetence or bias. While I wouldn't say Ward had control of the fight, he did, to many people's eyes win 5 of the last 6 rounds, so Kovalev certainly wasn't in control either.

There were several close rounds in the fight that could fairly be scored for either fighter - rounds 3, 4, 5, 6, 9 and 12. I scored two of those rounds for Kovlalev and four for Ward. I wouldn't argue with anyone who scored the 3rd, 5th or 12th for Kovalev, so I can see how people came up with 116-111 Kovalev scores - I think that's the widest you could reasonably have it, although it's a long way from my score. However, I'm not going to resort to claiming people who scored it that wide for Kovalev must have some kind of bias - some undoubtedly do, but many just saw the rounds a little differently to how I did. Scoring in boxing is very subjective and in a fight with so many close rounds, there's always going to be a difference of opinion.