BoxRec

jezzamundo wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
Vitali is basically the same fighter as AJ?! They fight completely differently, unless you're referring to them being a similar height and weight. Which would be like saying a young George Foreman and David Haye are basically the same fighter - which would be ridiculous.

Oh and keep in mind that Lewis knocked out Briggs in five rounds, of which he only lost the first and knocked Briggs down three times. Then remember this was a young, prime Briggs who was far better than he is today - or was when he lost to Vitali.

Nope, pretty much the same fighter, similar statistics, similar style, similar built, everything.

Just to clarify, are you talking about Joshua and Vitali or young Briggs vs old Briggs? You're wrong in either case, but I just want to be clear who you're talking about.

It's guaranteed that whoever, or whatever he, or it, or whatever it is (I suspect it is a Korean language experimental software bot that is using google translate) - the end result is the same - sheer, utter, unadulterated bollox.

Ian1973 wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The single thing in the ring vitali did better than Lennox was take a punch. That's it.

Yep, and an overweight post-prime Lewis still managed to beat a prime Vitali.

Only on cuts. Vitali was ahead on all scorecards.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

evrenb wrote:

Lackeos wrote:Anthony Joshua is the best combat athlete of all-time both p4p and in absolute terms. The way he beat Gary Cornish... that just says it all right there. I mean, could Muhammad Ali have beaten Gary Cornish? I don't think so. If Lennox Lewis fought all of the guys that Anthony Joshua has fought, he would be 14-3 right now.

The most ridiculous comment in the history of all boxrec comments. Unless it's a joke..

Of course it's a joke!!

Thank you.

Of course, one day, Joshua may prove to be good enough to have beaten Holyfield. But right now, the evidence supporting that is pretty scant. Holyfield has fought SEVERAL matches against top 15 all-time heavyweights. Anthony Joshua still hasn't fought any heavyweights who are top 250 all-time. So the premise of this thread is like...
"We just discovered this new chemical. We know nothing about it yet."
"If you mix it with rubber, will it explode?"
"YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. PROBABLY!"
Probably? ... based on what evidence?

IMO, It's not even worth speculating how Joshua or anyone would fare against Holyfield until that fighter has lost or until he's beaten a top 40 all-time heavyweight.

Lackeos wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

evrenb wrote:
The most ridiculous comment in the history of all boxrec comments. Unless it's a joke..

Of course it's a joke!!

Thank you.

Of course, one day, Joshua may prove to be good enough to have beaten Holyfield. But right now, the evidence supporting that is pretty scant. Holyfield has fought SEVERAL matches against top 15 all-time heavyweights. Anthony Joshua still hasn't fought any heavyweights who are top 250 all-time. So the premise of this thread is like...
"We just discovered this new chemical. We know nothing about it yet."
"If you mix it with rubber, will it explode?"
"YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. PROBABLY!"
Probably? ... based on what evidence?

Joshua has a great potential, of course he ought to be tested against the top level HWs. On another side, I tried to discuss about young Holyfield (1990) before his fights against the best opponents - Bowe, Tyson, Lewis, etc...I want to emphasize that Holy has not been tested/proven at HW 1990. Of course, he has achieved a lot before, at CW. Anyway, Holy was a better boxer, and Joshua is much bigger man, God Almighty knows !

You should watch holyfield/dokes. He was tested and then some.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You should watch holyfield/dokes. He was tested and then some.

Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters, I have a great respect for him. He defeated Tyson, twice, that is enough for me.
I hope Joshua will become a champion like Holyfield (and Lewis, of course).......

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You should watch holyfield/dokes. He was tested and then some.

Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters, I have a great respect for him. He defeated Tyson, twice, that is enough for me.
I hope Joshua will become a champion like Holyfield (and Lewis, of course).......

It would just help you from making incorrect statements like he was untested. And it was an epic fight. much better than tyson.Joshua looks the part, I've considered him the best of this bunch for quite awhile.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You should watch holyfield/dokes. He was tested and then some.

Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters, I have a great respect for him. He defeated Tyson, twice, that is enough for me.
I hope Joshua will become a champion like Holyfield (and Lewis, of course).......

It would just help you from making incorrect statements like he was untested. And it was an epic fight. much better than tyson.Joshua looks the part, I've considered him the best of this bunch for quite awhile.

OK, I will try to find this match on You Tube in a minute...And, I intend to enjoy watching a grandmaster Holy....
I have to repeat : Holyfield 1990 has not been (yet) one of the greatest HW champions. The first victory over Tyson was the most important Holy's deed...

There is a difference between being Atg and untested. Dokes, foreman, Holmes, Douglas, Cooper. Plenty of solid wins. The win over bowe was better than Tyson. He owned Mike, bowe was a monster.

Lackeos wrote:Anthony Joshua is the best combat athlete of all-time both p4p and in absolute terms. The way he beat Gary Cornish... that just says it all right there. I mean, could Muhammad Ali have beaten Gary Cornish? I don't think so. If Lennox Lewis fought all of the guys that Anthony Joshua has fought, he would be 14-3 right now.

And don't forget he beat Charles Martin, one of the grittiest and toughest title holders ever. I'd take AJ over prime anybody. He'd beat Ike and Wilt Chamberlain in the same night.

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You should watch holyfield/dokes. He was tested and then some.

Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters, I have a great respect for him. He defeated Tyson, twice, that is enough for me.
I hope Joshua will become a champion like Holyfield (and Lewis, of course).......

Yes, I saw the fight several minutes ago - a genuine war, impression was spoiled because of too many low blows by both fighters.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:There is a difference between being Atg and untested. Dokes, foreman, Holmes, Douglas, Cooper. Plenty of solid wins. The win over bowe was better than Tyson. He owned Mike, bowe was a monster.

I can not agree, Tyson was better than Bowe. There is no need to debate about.

ValMar wrote:

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You should watch holyfield/dokes. He was tested and then some.

Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters, I have a great respect for him. He defeated Tyson, twice, that is enough for me.
I hope Joshua will become a champion like Holyfield (and Lewis, of course).......

Yes, I saw the fight several minutes ago - a genuine war, impression was spoiled because of too many low blows by both fighters.

round eight was amazing. I had been saying for a few years evander would be the one to beat Tyson. I knew it for sure after the dokes fight.

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:There is a difference between being Atg and untested. Dokes, foreman, Holmes, Douglas, Cooper. Plenty of solid wins. The win over bowe was better than Tyson. He owned Mike, bowe was a monster.

I can not agree, Tyson was better than Bowe. There is no need to debate about.

There certainly is no debate that bowe was a tougher opponent for evander. Not even in the same league.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ValMar wrote:

ValMar wrote:
Holyfield is one of my favourite fighters, I have a great respect for him. He defeated Tyson, twice, that is enough for me.
I hope Joshua will become a champion like Holyfield (and Lewis, of course).......

Yes, I saw the fight several minutes ago - a genuine war, impression was spoiled because of too many low blows by both fighters.

round eight was amazing. I had been saying for a few years evander would be the one to beat Tyson. I knew it for sure after the dokes fight.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:There is a difference between being Atg and untested. Dokes, foreman, Holmes, Douglas, Cooper. Plenty of solid wins. The win over bowe was better than Tyson. He owned Mike, bowe was a monster.

I can not agree, Tyson was better than Bowe. There is no need to debate about.

There certainly is no debate that bowe was a tougher opponent for evander. Not even in the same league.

Maybe RB was a tougher opponent for Holy, but this can not prove anything. Simply - Tyson was better HW than Bowe. "Not even in the same league".

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ValMar wrote:
I can not agree, Tyson was better than Bowe. There is no need to debate about.

There certainly is no debate that bowe was a tougher opponent for evander. Not even in the same league.

Maybe RB was a tougher opponent for Holy, but this can not prove anything. Simply - Tyson was better HW than Bowe. "Not even in the same league".

He rates higher resume wise by a bit, he wasn't a better win for holyfield and he wasn't a better fighter IMO. I think bowe would have brutalized Mike.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
Vitali is basically the same fighter as AJ?! They fight completely differently, unless you're referring to them being a similar height and weight. Which would be like saying a young George Foreman and David Haye are basically the same fighter - which would be ridiculous.

Oh and keep in mind that Lewis knocked out Briggs in five rounds, of which he only lost the first and knocked Briggs down three times. Then remember this was a young, prime Briggs who was far better than he is today - or was when he lost to Vitali.

Nope, pretty much the same fighter, similar statistics, similar style, similar built, everything.

Utter rubbish.

Lewis was far more aggressive than VItali, and hit MUCH harder. Vitali didn't put people to sleep with one punch, he was a cumulative puncher, and relied on his reach, and output.

Lewis was FAR more mobile, and used feints and body work far more to set traps for the huge right hand and left hook, he had excellent uppercuts too, as Vitali discovered. His work was more cultured and varied.

You really know very little about the sport don't you?

I wrote that AJ and Vitali are basically the same type of boxer in their styles. Lewis has nothing to do with this. You're the one talking utter rubbish.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: There certainly is no debate that bowe was a tougher opponent for evander. Not even in the same league.

Maybe RB was a tougher opponent for Holy, but this can not prove anything. Simply - Tyson was better HW than Bowe. "Not even in the same league".

He rates higher resume wise by a bit, he wasn't a better win for holyfield and he wasn't a better fighter IMO. I think bowe would have brutalized Mike.

We will never agree about that. I am sure 75 % majority of forum members will agree with me.

jezzamundo wrote:

asdfjkl wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:
Vitali is basically the same fighter as AJ?! They fight completely differently, unless you're referring to them being a similar height and weight. Which would be like saying a young George Foreman and David Haye are basically the same fighter - which would be ridiculous.

Oh and keep in mind that Lewis knocked out Briggs in five rounds, of which he only lost the first and knocked Briggs down three times. Then remember this was a young, prime Briggs who was far better than he is today - or was when he lost to Vitali.

Nope, pretty much the same fighter, similar statistics, similar style, similar built, everything.

Just to clarify, are you talking about Joshua and Vitali or young Briggs vs old Briggs? You're wrong in either case, but I just want to be clear who you're talking about.

Joshua and Vitali are basically the same fighters for me yes.

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ValMar wrote:
Maybe RB was a tougher opponent for Holy, but this can not prove anything. Simply - Tyson was better HW than Bowe. "Not even in the same league".

He rates higher resume wise by a bit, he wasn't a better win for holyfield and he wasn't a better fighter IMO. I think bowe would have brutalized Mike.

We will never agree about that. I am sure 75 % majority of forum members will agree with me.

You all have the right to be wrong.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ValMar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: He rates higher resume wise by a bit, he wasn't a better win for holyfield and he wasn't a better fighter IMO. I think bowe would have brutalized Mike.

We will never agree about that. I am sure 75 % majority of forum members will agree with me.

You all have the right to be wrong.

asdfjkl wrote:

jezzamundo wrote:

asdfjkl wrote: Nope, pretty much the same fighter, similar statistics, similar style, similar built, everything.

Just to clarify, are you talking about Joshua and Vitali or young Briggs vs old Briggs? You're wrong in either case, but I just want to be clear who you're talking about.

Joshua and Vitali are basically the same fighters for me yes.

Ok, wow, where to start?! Their height and weight are relatively similar, though Joshua is slightly shorter and the more musclebound, so he is the naturally smaller man of the two, though not by much. If you said they had a similar stature, that would be a reasonable observation, but their fighting styles are completely different.

The most glaring difference is the way they throw their punches. Vitali was an arm puncher, he was a naturally heavy-handed guy, but he didn't generate power through his hips. The way he threw punches was like a bigger, heavier-handed, much slower Muhammad Ali. Or for a better comparison, see footage of Jess Willard (he fights much more like Vitali than AJ). His high knockout ration comes from a combination of poor, usually much smaller opposition, who he would usually wear down and often stop late from an accumulation of punches.

AJ, on the other hand, is a pure power puncher. He generates power through his hips and hits with significantly more force than Vitali. Another major difference is that Vitali generally fought with his hands down, while AJ more often keeps a high guard. Their style of defense is very different too, with AJ often preferring to block punches, while Vitali more often made use of head and foot movement to avoid punches.

Joshua would get his ass torn up Holyfield in 9/10 one-sided round's

tiny_acres wrote:My God the hype around Joshua is insane.
Why don't we let him face at least one top 10 contender before we claim how great he is.
Damn this is just crazy