BoxRec

Jip wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Yeah, today. Give Dempsey tv, social media and all that and he'd be as popular as the Beatles. It's ok that you don't know anything about jack. It's current scene.

i know jack and i know what happened back than. and i am not downplaying his status, he was an icon for sure. but you shouldnt downplay tyson.

It's not downplaying Tyson. You picked probably the second best answer.

I think Dempsey is among the most overrated fighters ever, but if you brought a menacing knockout artist white guy in today's landscape to fight Ali, there is nothing that can touch it.

Tyson would be just another Heavyweight today... He wouldn't be in the top 5 and neither would Bowe or Evander.

But Tyson rolls over Ali... he'd go right after Ali, like he went right after Michael Spinks and Tony Tubbs -- he'd go for the quick finish.. Spinks was 31-0.. Tony Tubbs was 24-1 losing only to Tim Witherspoon.. The way Norton fractured Ali's jaw with his readable hooks, Tyson had a shorter, harder, quicker, and slicker left hook... Some folks say Ali would fight Tyson like Buster Douglas did.. That's not realistic, since Buster was bigger, taller, and stronger than Ali.. Buster also had an inside game and a body attack, so he was much more of a complete fighter at his best -- which he was the night he fought Tyson.

Kalan wrote:Tyson would be just another Heavyweight today... He wouldn't be in the top 5 and neither would Bowe or Evander.

But Tyson rolls over Ali... he'd go right after Ali, like he went right after Michael Spinks and Tony Tubbs -- he'd go for the quick finish.. Spinks was 31-0.. Tony Tubbs was 24-1 losing only to Tim Witherspoon.. The way Norton fractured Ali's jaw with his readable hooks, Tyson had a shorter, harder, quicker, and slicker left hook... Some folks say Ali would fight Tyson like Buster Douglas did.. That's not realistic, since Buster was bigger, taller, and stronger than Ali.. Buster also had an inside game and a body attack, so he was much more of a complete fighter at his best -- which he was the night he fought Tyson.

Whatever you are smoking needs to be shared with the rest on this forum.
Puff puff pass

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Ali & Dempsey would do more.

If we'recommend going down that road - could you imagine Ali vs 49-0 Rocky Marciano?

Crease wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Ali & Dempsey would do more.

If we'recommend going down that road - could you imagine Ali vs 49-0 Rocky Marciano?

Dempsey was a bigger deal than rocky, but that would be another blockbuster.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Crease wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Ali & Dempsey would do more.

If we'recommend going down that road - could you imagine Ali vs 49-0 Rocky Marciano?

Dempsey was a bigger deal than rocky, but that would be another blockbuster.

how do you know that for sure, you 110 years old, you were around in the dempsey time?

IMO, the scale of this poll is ridiculous. I think it should start somewhere around 3 million and end somewhere around 10 million. I really don't think that Ali and Tyson would have been significantly different draws than Mayweather and Pacquiao. I think the scale of such a fight would be within the same scale as Mayweather - Pacquiao. Probably somewhere around 5.5 million ppv buys. I must remind all that some of the all-time great p4p match-ups with evenly matched, equally sized fighters near their primes have gone as follows...

Holyfield - Holmes: 730,000
Holyfield - Bowe: 900,000
Holyfield - Bowe 2: 950,000
Toney - RJJ: 300,000
Holyfield - Bowe 3: 650,000
Tyson - Holyfield: 1,590,000
Whitaker - Hoya: 720,000
Holyfield - Tyson 2: 1,990,000
Holyfield - Lewis: 1,200,000
Hoya - Trinidad: 1,400,000
Holyfield - Lewis 2: 850,000
Hoya - Mosley: 590,000
Barrera - Hamed: 310,000
Lewis - Tyson: 1,970,000
Hoya - Mosley 2: 950,000
Hopkins - Hoya: 1,000,000
Pacquiao - Marquez 2: 400,000
Pacquiao - Marquez 3: 1,400,000
Pacquiao - Marquez 4: 1,150,000
Mayweather - Pacquiao 4,600,000
Kovalev - Ward: 160,000

So it's typical when two fighters of Ali - Tyson caliber meet that the buy rate is usually between 400k and 1.4m. There's really no precedent for doing 5 million+ buys, even when two of the most marketable fighters of all-time meet up. Doing 10 million buys in 2016, given the economy and the relative unpopularity of boxing, would be almost unthinkable even if it was an all-day event stacked with the greatest 14 match-ups of all-time with the aid of a time machine and featuring fighters from all of the world's largest economies.

Lackeos wrote:IMO, the scale of this poll is ridiculous. I think it should start somewhere around 3 million and end somewhere around 10 million. I really don't think that Ali and Tyson would have been significantly different draws than Mayweather and Pacquiao. I think the scale of such a fight would be within the same scale as Mayweather - Pacquiao. Probably somewhere around 5.5 million ppv buys. I must remind all that some of the all-time great p4p match-ups with evenly matched, equally sized fighters near their primes have gone as follows...

Holyfield - Holmes: 730,000
Holyfield - Bowe: 900,000
Holyfield - Bowe 2: 950,000
Toney - RJJ: 300,000
Holyfield - Bowe 3: 650,000
Tyson - Holyfield: 1,590,000
Whitaker - Hoya: 720,000
Holyfield - Tyson 2: 1,990,000
Holyfield - Lewis: 1,200,000
Hoya - Trinidad: 1,400,000
Holyfield - Lewis 2: 850,000
Hoya - Mosley: 590,000
Barrera - Hamed: 310,000
Lewis - Tyson: 1,970,000
Hoya - Mosley 2: 950,000
Hopkins - Hoya: 1,000,000
Pacquiao - Marquez 2: 400,000
Pacquiao - Marquez 3: 1,400,000
Pacquiao - Marquez 4: 1,150,000
Mayweather - Pacquiao 4,600,000
Kovalev - Ward: 160,000

So it's typical when two fighters of Ali - Tyson caliber meet that the buy rate is usually between 400k and 1.4m. There's really no precedent for doing 5 million+ buys, even when two of the most marketable fighters of all-time meet up. Doing 10 million buys in 2016, given the economy and the relative unpopularity of boxing, would be almost unthinkable even if it was an all-day event stacked with the greatest 14 match-ups of all-time with the aid of a time machine and featuring fighters from all of the world's largest economies.

look, your list consists of guys like holyfield, holmes, lewis etc., now i dont want to downplay those guys, but they aint tyson and ali.

in boxing, there have been only 2 global worldstars, not joe louis, not sugar ray robinson, not oscar de la hoya, only 2 guys, a and t. thats it. look, what numbers for example lewis-tyson did, 1,9. lewis was conidered boring and didnt had so much fans in usa or elsewhere. tyson was old and totaly out of shape, just not into boxing and a shadow of what he used to be in the 80's.

all i am saying is, imagine young prime tyson vs young prime ali, both showcasing their skills at their peak, with all the internet, youtube, hbo videos, worldwide streamed interviews, facebook, just all the media. i mean you cant compare 2002 where lewis tyson took place with today, there wasnt even facebook, or social media in general which we know today. so imagine all that and than basicly the style how they fought, both action, both fan entertaining, so you realy think it would only do 3-5 million buys. i say hell nah. cause a lot of the 4,9 mayweather did against pacquiao was social media, it were the episode where floyd flashed his life. mayweather/pacquiao would have never done more than 2 in the 90 or early 2000.

Holyfield sold more ppvs than Mike in his career. Mike was a bigger draw, but don't pretend it was by miles.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I also think Dempsey would be more competitive with Ali, though I'd pick Mike over jack.

no way. dempsey doesn't land anything
substantial against prime ali. could very
well end in a late TKO for muhammad.

Crease wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Ali & Dempsey would do more.

If we'recommend going down that road - could you imagine Ali vs 49-0 Rocky Marciano?

dempsey would be the bigger draw
than rocky.

man wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I also think Dempsey would be more competitive with Ali, though I'd pick Mike over jack.

no way. dempsey doesn't land anything
substantial against prime ali. could very
well end in a late TKO for muhammad.

Dempsey had a better hook than tyson, if anybody is catching Ali with anything big it would be Dempsey.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

man wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I also think Dempsey would be more competitive with Ali, though I'd pick Mike over jack.

no way. dempsey doesn't land anything
substantial against prime ali. could very
well end in a late TKO for muhammad.

Dempsey had a better hook than tyson, if anybody is catching Ali with anything big it would be Dempsey.

Ali would catch hell to the body from Dempsey too IMO

Much bigger than Ali-Tyson would be a Klitschko VS Ali match during the height of The Cold War (1950s-1980s).

Contingent on the USSR at the time to allow the match.

The Russian (all of it was considered Russian back in the day by the West) VS any great Western HW would sell like hotcakes, especially if it was Ali, which would bring in perhaps billions of Muslim viewers worldwide.

As intriguing as Ali-Tyson is, an international HW matchup between either Klitschko VS Ali in their primes from the above 30 year period would make Louis VS Scheming look tame.

The internet would crash, millions of people would call off work including truck drivers and bus drivers causing major delays. Thousands of students would skip class and the president himself would call in sick to watch it with his buddies.

Sponsors would make tens of millions off of the buildup alone. It would make the nba finals and the superbowl look like jr. High varsity games. Every newspaper and website would cover it and talk about if for the next 6 months non stop. Youtube videos of the fight would surpass "gangnam style" and hit more than a billion views.

The 24/7 and face off would be insane. Ali would be talking mad $#!% while Tyson goes off the rails about eating Ali's children. The stare down in ring center would be like a scene out of a dragonball z fight. The entire stadium would hold is breath wondering if something crazy might happen. They would need an entire swat team with riot shields as security.

There would be more celebities in attendance than the presidential innaguration or the oscars. Ring side seats would probably sell for a million bucks. It would be the greatest, most electrifying sporting event in human history.

Cygnus475 wrote:The internet would crash, millions of people would call off work including truck drivers and bus drivers causing major delays. Thousands of students would skip class and the president himself would call in sick to watch it with his buddies.

Sponsors would make tens of millions off of the buildup alone. It would make the nba finals and the superbowl look like jr. High varsity games. Every newspaper and website would cover it and talk about if for the next 6 months non stop. Youtube videos of the fight would surpass "gangnam style" and hit more than a billion views.

The 24/7 and face off would be insane. Ali would be talking mad $#!% while Tyson goes off the rails about eating Ali's children. The stare down in ring center would be like a scene out of a dragonball z fight. The entire stadium would hold is breath wondering if something crazy might happen. They would need an entire swat team with riot shields as security.

There would be more celebities in attendance than the presidential innaguration or the oscars. Ring side seats would probably sell for a million bucks. It would be the greatest, most electrifying sporting event in human history.

the atmosphere would be more electrifying than if michael jackson, elvis and the beatles would do a joined concert together. this wouldnt just be the greatest sporting event ever, but the greatest event period ever.......only jesus coming from the sky and singing "suspicious minds" could be bigger

Ali-Tyson would do about 9 million.

How do I know. I don't. I'm just guessing like everyone else.

But if a dog welter matchup like Mayweather-Pac can lure 4.5 million (stylistically, there's was no way it was going to be an entertaining showdown) then a confrontation between two iconic heavyweights (and remember--at one time the world heavyweight championship was the biggest prize in all of sports) with dramatically differing styles, could certainly double that number.

I'm assuming that both fighters come in unbeaten (or Ali, at the very least, has just stunned the world by dethroning Foreman) and their mystique is at its peak.

Ali wins, of course. A tall guy with a great stick, who can move, will always do away with the easily discouraged Iron Mike.

Ali-Dempsey? I have to go with Saad on this one.

In the 20s, he was one of the most popular and recognized figures on the planet. In sports, maybe only Babe Ruth was an even greater celebrity.

Tyson was certainly a major mainstream star during his prime years, but he wasn't lionized anywhere near the way Dempsey was.

It was a different era. Boxing was one of the top 3 most popular sports during Dempsey's time (along with Baseball and Horse Racing) When Tyson arrived on the scene, boxing was rapidly losing its appeal because of the retirement of Ali and the on/off career of Leonard.

The revered, brawling Dempsey squaring off against an iconic, polarizing figure like the fleet-footed Ali would smash all PPV records.

Tyson-Ali wouldn't come close, although it too would generate massive numbers.

I think Jip might be far, far too young to realize the enormous impact Dempsey had nearly 100 years ago.

Tyson was special in his time. But society pretty much regarded Dempsey as someone mythic back in the roaring 20s.

SenorPipino wrote:Ali-Tyson would do about 9 million.

How do I know. I don't. I'm just guessing like everyone else.

But if a dog welter matchup like Mayweather-Pac can lure 4.5 million (stylistically, there's was no way it was going to be an entertaining showdown) then a confrontation between two iconic heavyweights (and remember--at one time the world heavyweight championship was the biggest prize in all of sports) with dramatically differing styles, could certainly double that number.

I'm assuming that both fighters come in unbeaten (or Ali, at the very least, has just stunned the world by dethroning Foreman) and their mystique is at its peak.

Ali wins, of course. A tall guy with a great stick, who can move, will always do away with the easily discouraged Iron Mike.

Ali-Dempsey? I have to go with Saad on this one.

In the 20s, he was one of the most popular and recognized figures on the planet. In sports, maybe only Babe Ruth was an even greater celebrity.

Tyson was certainly a major mainstream star during his prime years, but he wasn't lionized anywhere near the way Dempsey was.

It was a different era. Boxing was one of the top 3 most popular sports during Dempsey's time (along with Baseball and Horse Racing) When Tyson arrived on the scene, boxing was rapidly losing its appeal because of the retirement of Ali and the on/off career of Leonard.

The revered, brawling Dempsey squaring off against an iconic, polarizing figure like the fleet-footed Ali would smash all PPV records.

Tyson-Ali wouldn't come close, although it too would generate massive numbers.

I think Jip might be far, far too young to realize the enormous impact Dempsey had nearly 100 years ago.

Tyson was special in his time. But society pretty much regarded Dempsey as someone mythic back in the roaring 20s.

exactly great point you made. yes, the mystique would be at its highest. the mystique of ali after the thriller of manila and the mystique of prime mike tyson 1988 after the spinks fight.

Kalan wrote:Tyson would be just another Heavyweight today... He wouldn't be in the top 5 and neither would Bowe or Evander.

But Tyson rolls over Ali... he'd go right after Ali, like he went right after Michael Spinks and Tony Tubbs -- he'd go for the quick finish.. Spinks was 31-0.. Tony Tubbs was 24-1 losing only to Tim Witherspoon.. The way Norton fractured Ali's jaw with his readable hooks, Tyson had a shorter, harder, quicker, and slicker left hook... Some folks say Ali would fight Tyson like Buster Douglas did.. That's not realistic, since Buster was bigger, taller, and stronger than Ali.. Buster also had an inside game and a body attack, so he was much more of a complete fighter at his best -- which he was the night he fought Tyson.

Hmm.. did I..just read that?

Cloutov wrote:

Kalan wrote:Tyson would be just another Heavyweight today... He wouldn't be in the top 5 and neither would Bowe or Evander.

But Tyson rolls over Ali... he'd go right after Ali, like he went right after Michael Spinks and Tony Tubbs -- he'd go for the quick finish.. Spinks was 31-0.. Tony Tubbs was 24-1 losing only to Tim Witherspoon.. The way Norton fractured Ali's jaw with his readable hooks, Tyson had a shorter, harder, quicker, and slicker left hook... Some folks say Ali would fight Tyson like Buster Douglas did.. That's not realistic, since Buster was bigger, taller, and stronger than Ali.. Buster also had an inside game and a body attack, so he was much more of a complete fighter at his best -- which he was the night he fought Tyson.

Hmm.. did I..just read that?

Don't try and make sense out of his posts. You will just go crazy.
Just take them as failed comedy.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

man wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I also think Dempsey would be more competitive with Ali, though I'd pick Mike over jack.

no way. dempsey doesn't land anything
substantial against prime ali. could very
well end in a late TKO for muhammad.

Dempsey had a better hook than tyson, if anybody is catching Ali with anything big it would be Dempsey.

prime tyson was not only strong,
he was super fast in his upper body
movements. to me this was absolute
key in his rise and lack of it was the
major reason for his downfall. he would
have been way more difficult to hit than
jack.

yes, dempsey was strong, but ali was
as elusive as they come. i doubt that
any flat footed fighter can challenge
pre-layoff ali. different thing is after
that ... he was obviously way easier
to hit, as frazier's left hooked proved
for the better part of the FOTC.

Dempsey could fight on the inside, Mike couldn't. I don't give either a good chance. Dempsey just had more tools. Tyson was never hard to hit.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Dempsey was a bigger deal than rocky, but that would be another blockbuster.

man wrote:dempsey would be the bigger draw than rocky.

I disagree with you gents. The Rock would be the perfect opponent for Ali if they were in their prime today. Marciano would bring his style, his perfect record and his attitude would blend nicely with Ali's when it came to the interviews.