BoxRec

davie wrote:I'm in the UK and BJS has been televised since he turned pro more or less, I've probably watched every fight of his (more or less) and can say with some authority, the guy is no puncher.

Everybody has an opinion... Saunders lacks the killer instinct. He knocked Andy Lee down twice... He showed a nice short right hook he came up with after he rolled under a punch.. Lee was hurt bad, but Saunders was well ahead at that point... He milked that lead the rest of the way and didn't do a thing.

Kalan wrote:

davie wrote:I'm in the UK and BJS has been televised since he turned pro more or less, I've probably watched every fight of his (more or less) and can say with some authority, the guy is no puncher.

Everybody has an opinion... Saunders lacks the killer instinct. He knocked Andy Lee down twice... He showed a nice short right hook he came up with after he rolled under a punch.. Lee was hurt bad, but Saunders was well ahead at that point... He milked that lead the rest of the way and didn't do a thing.

Was lucky to get the win too. I had Andy Lee ahead by a point by the end of that fight. I believe he only dropped Andy Lee once.

You believe Andy Lee was only down once??? That's because you're an idiot who doesn't remember anything and doesn't check the facts before he contradicts

Kalan wrote:You believe Andy Lee was only down once??? That's because you're an idiot who doesn't remember anything and doesn't check the facts before he contradicts

Nah it was just a dull fight that didn't really stand out in my mind.

I guess I must've had 114-112 for Lee at the end of the fight then, I know I thought Andy won more rounds mostly with his jab while Saunders just banked on the knockdowns to get him the win.

gilgamesh wrote:

Kalan wrote:You believe Andy Lee was only down once??? That's because you're an idiot who doesn't remember anything and doesn't check the facts before he contradicts

Nah it was just a dull fight that didn't really stand out in my mind.

I guess I must've had 114-112 for Lee at the end of the fight then, I know I thought Andy won more rounds mostly with his jab while Saunders just banked on the knockdowns to get him the win.

You must have pissed Kalan right of Gil. We both disagreed with him and I get "Everybody has an opinion" and you get "That's because you're an idiot"


What did you say to upset my buddy Kalan so?

davie wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

Kalan wrote:You believe Andy Lee was only down once??? That's because you're an idiot who doesn't remember anything and doesn't check the facts before he contradicts

Nah it was just a dull fight that didn't really stand out in my mind.

I guess I must've had 114-112 for Lee at the end of the fight then, I know I thought Andy won more rounds mostly with his jab while Saunders just banked on the knockdowns to get him the win.

You must have pissed Kalan right of Gil. We both disagreed with him and I get "Everybody has an opinion" and you get "That's because you're an idiot"


What did you say to upset my buddy Kalan so?

Me and Kalan have been at odds since Day 1. Him calling me an idiot couldn't mean less to me as i have no respect for his opinion when it comes to Boxing.

Plus you contradict me with opinions you put out as facts... claim to be one the top experts on Boxing in the world, and just generally say dumb untrue things.

back to the topic......lamotta vs. graziano would be a mismatch. jake would crowd him damn near out of the ring, and rocky's punches against welters, where he made his reputation, would bounce off jake's chin. which was harder to hit than most people realize. in their final fight, there were rounds where jake matches the sugar man jab for jab.

i covered all this years ago, but new posters come on from time to time, so we must forgive them.

Kalan wrote:You believe Andy Lee was only down once??? That's because you're an idiot who doesn't remember anything and doesn't check the facts before he contradicts

You have made numerous similar errors in your haste to decry a fighter you wish to criticise

The people who've made mistakes most often are the guys trying to build up legends and put down contemporary fighters... BTW, Graziano had over a 60% KO ratio and LaMotta's ratio was in the 20's.. It would depend on what type a fight it was because LaMaotta did get knocked down and was stopped 4 times. Graziano was only stopped by Zale and Robinson.

And you are constanlty inflated how good contemporary fighters are and ripping older fighters whom you know little about.

Graziano was a harder puncher, most people have acknowledged. (Though most people know that KO% can be deceiving)
Besides Tony Zale, how many ranked middleweights did Graziano beat in his career?

I was thinking (and probably shouldn’t) that Graziano seems to me to be much like Tyson; both were ‘one of the most powerful punchers’ in their weight class; both were feared because of their power; both at their peak, on any given night, could have beaten any of the great fighters in their weight class (because of their punch); but both could be neutralized by a good boxer (so long as he had a good chin); both were more likely to lose by being stopped than decision (because of their inability/refusal to adjust mid-fight); and both actually dominated their weight class for a relatively short time.

Oh, both went to jail. – (I would love to see the percentage of champions who did time, as compared to say baseball.)

i would like to see graziano against one of lamotta's victims-bob satterfield. it would take just a few minutes of my time.

Kalan wrote:The people who've made mistakes most often are the guys trying to build up legends and put down contemporary fighters... BTW, Graziano had over a 60% KO ratio and LaMotta's ratio was in the 20's.. It would depend on what type a fight it was because LaMaotta did get knocked down and was stopped 4 times. Graziano was only stopped by Zale and Robinson.

This Is the post that shows you up, definitively, as a young guy, pretending to be an old timer. Get lost, you utter knob goblin.

Tomasino wrote:

Kalan wrote:The people who've made mistakes most often are the guys trying to build up legends and put down contemporary fighters... BTW, Graziano had over a 60% KO ratio and LaMotta's ratio was in the 20's.. It would depend on what type a fight it was because LaMaotta did get knocked down and was stopped 4 times. Graziano was only stopped by Zale and Robinson.

This Is the post that shows you up, definitively, as a young guy, pretending to be an old timer. Get lost, you utter knob goblin.

I don't really think he's pretending to be old...I think he's just a knob goblin. He jumped into my bench press thread claiming to have benched 405 for several reps without training it and having witnessed someone press about 40 lbs more than the current world record back in the day. He's a clown.

punchoutsb wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

Kalan wrote:The people who've made mistakes most often are the guys trying to build up legends and put down contemporary fighters... BTW, Graziano had over a 60% KO ratio and LaMotta's ratio was in the 20's.. It would depend on what type a fight it was because LaMaotta did get knocked down and was stopped 4 times. Graziano was only stopped by Zale and Robinson.

This Is the post that shows you up, definitively, as a young guy, pretending to be an old timer. Get lost, you utter knob goblin.

I don't really think he's pretending to be old...I think he's just a knob goblin. He jumped into my bench press thread claiming to have benched 405 for several reps without training it and having witnessed someone press about 40 lbs more than the current world record back in the day. He's a clown.

I agree but he Defo pretends to be old. Or at least older than me

Tomasino wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

This Is the post that shows you up, definitively, as a young guy, pretending to be an old timer. Get lost, you utter knob goblin.

I don't really think he's pretending to be old...I think he's just a knob goblin. He jumped into my bench press thread claiming to have benched 405 for several reps without training it and having witnessed someone press about 40 lbs more than the current world record back in the day. He's a clown.

I agree but he Defo pretends to be old. Or at least older than me

He claimed to be in his 70's, which I doubt.

punchoutsb wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
I don't really think he's pretending to be old...I think he's just a knob goblin. He jumped into my bench press thread claiming to have benched 405 for several reps without training it and having witnessed someone press about 40 lbs more than the current world record back in the day. He's a clown.

I agree but he Defo pretends to be old. Or at least older than me

He claimed to be in his 70's, which I doubt.

I'd say he's about 12-14

The great Jake LaMotta wins this fight. He was a class above Rocky Graziano. They were neighborhood buddies or friends, something like that. That is why they never fought each other. Their friendship was on the line. Why should they fight?

The Raging Bull was by far the better fighter. He even fought better competition. He fought guys that nobody wanted to fight. He even fought light-heavyweights being he a middleweight.

Graziano made his name fighting smaller men. He was fighting welterweights that weren't that good anyway. He padded his record of KO wins by beating welterweights by him being a middleweight.

It takes more than punching power to beat LaMotta. LaMotta was more equipped in his arsenal. He had more ring generalship than Rocky. He was even tougher. LaMotta would've never lost to Tony Zale. I just can't see it.

Zale-LaMotta would have been a very competitive fight.

If such a bout took place after World War II ended, Jake LaMotta would have taken the over-the-hill Tony Zale apart. Zale's brain trust knew the score and made sure that their charge never got into the ring with LaMotta.

- Chuck Johnston

Tomasino wrote:

Kalan wrote:The people who've made mistakes most often are the guys trying to build up legends and put down contemporary fighters... BTW, Graziano had over a 60% KO ratio and LaMotta's ratio was in the 20's.. It would depend on what type a fight it was because LaMaotta did get knocked down and was stopped 4 times. Graziano was only stopped by Zale and Robinson.

This Is the post that shows you up, definitively, as a young guy, pretending to be an old timer. Get lost, you utter knob goblin.

Why don't you screw yourself idiot??? You have the IQ of a snail after its been stepped on.. I saw LaMotta and Graziano fight on live TV.. I go back a long way.. Most of Graziano's losses were by decision BTW.. He was 67-10-6 with 3 KO losses... LaMotta was 83-19-4 with 4 KO losses... LaMotta fought better fighters on the whole -- but doesn't make him a sure thing when he lost that many fights to guys worse than Graziano, and lacked punching power.

Kalan wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

Kalan wrote:The people who've made mistakes most often are the guys trying to build up legends and put down contemporary fighters... BTW, Graziano had over a 60% KO ratio and LaMotta's ratio was in the 20's.. It would depend on what type a fight it was because LaMaotta did get knocked down and was stopped 4 times. Graziano was only stopped by Zale and Robinson.

This Is the post that shows you up, definitively, as a young guy, pretending to be an old timer. Get lost, you utter knob goblin.

Why don't you screw yourself idiot??? You have the IQ of a snail after its been stepped on.. I saw LaMotta and Graziano fight on live TV.. I go back a long way.. Most of Graziano's losses were by decision BTW.. He was 67-10-6 with 3 KO losses... LaMotta was 83-19-4 with 4 KO losses... LaMotta fought better fighters on the whole -- but doesn't make him a sure thing when he lost that many fights to guys worse than Graziano, and lacked punching power.

Oh sure you did. Haven't you realised, nobody, not even boxbuzz, has fallen for your crap? Your a little skinny dude who looks like a mole because you never leave your mothers basement cubicle. Your boxing knowledge is limited to what you can read on boxrec day by day. Go away

Tomasino wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

I agree but he Defo pretends to be old. Or at least older than me

He claimed to be in his 70's, which I doubt.

I'd say he's about 12-14

I think the number is either less than 12 or more than 100.

Tomasino wrote:

Kalan wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

This Is the post that shows you up, definitively, as a young guy, pretending to be an old timer. Get lost, you utter knob goblin.

Why don't you screw yourself idiot??? You have the IQ of a snail after its been stepped on.. I saw LaMotta and Graziano fight on live TV.. I go back a long way.. Most of Graziano's losses were by decision BTW.. He was 67-10-6 with 3 KO losses... LaMotta was 83-19-4 with 4 KO losses... LaMotta fought better fighters on the whole -- but doesn't make him a sure thing when he lost that many fights to guys worse than Graziano, and lacked punching power.

Oh sure you did. Haven't you realised, nobody, not even boxbuzz, has fallen for your crap? Your a little skinny dude who looks like a mole because you never leave your mothers basement cubicle. Your boxing knowledge is limited to what you can read on boxrec day by day. Go away

GTH you utter idiot.