BoxRec

Asterix wrote:Tyson Fury. His awkwardness completely flummoxed Wlad Klitschko.

See the above post... Fury was a more complete fighter... Fury had a much longer reach than Wladimir so you would think WK would come prepared to do something other than jab and try to fight from the outside... Wladimir didn't throw when he got inside because he doesn't know how... He tried to grab, but there's no way you can grab a 6'9" X 250 man with an 85" reach effectively if you're used to grabbing shorter and smaller people with shorter arms... It's not going to work and you're going to have to be a complete fighter to beat somebody like Fury.

Fury is a mental basket case... He's a head case... That's really the only problem with him, but he was a good boxer.

Prince Hamed, Sergio Martinez and Roy Jones Jr.

Three very different styles but one main similarity is that all three fought 95% of the time with their hands down by their side. It surprises that more boxers haven't adopted this style. You obviously have to have premier speed to be successful but to me, I prefer this style over the peek a boo style that most boxers have. In the P-A-Boo, boxers are 100% defensive and no threat to throw back. I hate this style. With the hands down, you can return more effectively and counter easier.

Provodnikov fought using the P-A-Boo style against Molina for 8 rounds and got his clock cleaned. As soon as he dropped his hands, it was a different fight and he took less punishment while turning the fight around at the same time. He ran out of time and lost but it was eye opening how effective fighters can be by throwing the book out and open it up.

Kalan wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:Edwin Valero had a pretty unique style. Threw punches from angles most people didn't know existed.

Very true... but being extremely difficult to fight doesn't make you awkward.. Maybe you're an overall master of the craft.. For me Wladimir Klitschko was very awkward because he'd grab the sh!t out of you and wouldn't fight you. He was very difficult to beat for the last 11 or 12 years---but he was never a complete boxer with an inside game and a great body attack. And holding is a foul. Holding is against the rules and he did it excessively.

Valero was far from a master of the craft. He threw punches from odd angles and could change his angle of attack mid-punch. He was awkward and had a ton of power, a dangerous combination. I wish he hadn't had so many personal demons--in the ring he was won of my favorites.

As for Wlad not fighting, his 53 KO's kinda disproves that statement. Wlad made fights ugly and didn't let his opponents work inside on him. He used his height and tied up when he couldn't keep them away. Tying up isn't illegal, excessive holding is. The champion of excess holding will always be The Quiet Man.

Ossie Ocassio. He only went so far but he had an awkward style. Remembered him when I saw his name on the forgotten Heavyweights thread.

Tyson Cave.

https://youtu.be/zlCpaMDGVBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlCpaMDGVBY

60s Muhammad Ali - No heavyweight ever fought like him before or since.

He moved like a featherweight & had the handspeed of a welterweight.

In addition to this, he kept his hands low & pulled back from punches which are sins in boxing, but he got away with it.

His opponents must have had tremendous difficulty preparing to face him in the 60s.

Pablo Sarmiento.

punchoutsb wrote:

Kalan wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:Edwin Valero had a pretty unique style. Threw punches from angles most people didn't know existed.

Very true... but being extremely difficult to fight doesn't make you awkward.. Maybe you're an overall master of the craft.. For me Wladimir Klitschko was very awkward because he'd grab the sh!t out of you and wouldn't fight you. He was very difficult to beat for the last 11 or 12 years---but he was never a complete boxer with an inside game and a great body attack. And holding is a foul. Holding is against the rules and he did it excessively.

Valero was far from a master of the craft. He threw punches from odd angles and could change his angle of attack mid-punch. He was awkward and had a ton of power, a dangerous combination. I wish he hadn't had so many personal demons--in the ring he was won of my favorites.

As for Wlad not fighting, his 53 KO's kinda disproves that statement. Wlad made fights ugly and didn't let his opponents work inside on him. He used his height and tied up when he couldn't keep them away. Tying up isn't illegal, excessive holding is. The champion of excess holding will always be The Quiet Man.

I'd call Wlad and Ruiz spoilers. It's an art and a style of its own. I wouldn't have called either of their styles awkward, but if we're describing spoilers as awkward I'll throw Matthew Barney in there. He was a good spoiler.

pablothunder wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

Kalan wrote:
Very true... but being extremely difficult to fight doesn't make you awkward.. Maybe you're an overall master of the craft.. For me Wladimir Klitschko was very awkward because he'd grab the sh!t out of you and wouldn't fight you. He was very difficult to beat for the last 11 or 12 years---but he was never a complete boxer with an inside game and a great body attack. And holding is a foul. Holding is against the rules and he did it excessively.

Valero was far from a master of the craft. He threw punches from odd angles and could change his angle of attack mid-punch. He was awkward and had a ton of power, a dangerous combination. I wish he hadn't had so many personal demons--in the ring he was won of my favorites.

As for Wlad not fighting, his 53 KO's kinda disproves that statement. Wlad made fights ugly and didn't let his opponents work inside on him. He used his height and tied up when he couldn't keep them away. Tying up isn't illegal, excessive holding is. The champion of excess holding will always be The Quiet Man.

I'd call Wlad and Ruiz spoilers. It's an art and a style of its own. I wouldn't have called either of their styles awkward, but if we're describing spoilers as awkward I'll throw Matthew Barney in there. He was a good spoiler.

Same, I don't think either had awkward styles. Vitali was more fluid than Wlad, and his style could be described as awkward. He fought with his hands down, used his height without pawing and throwing from weird angles himself.

caldo2025 wrote:Prince Hamed, Sergio Martinez and Roy Jones Jr.

Three very different styles but one main similarity is that all three fought 95% of the time with their hands down by their side. It surprises that more boxers haven't adopted this style. You obviously have to have premier speed to be successful but to me, I prefer this style over the peek a boo style that most boxers have. In the P-A-Boo, boxers are 100% defensive and no threat to throw back. I hate this style. With the hands down, you can return more effectively and counter easier.

Provodnikov fought using the P-A-Boo style against Molina for 8 rounds and got his clock cleaned. As soon as he dropped his hands, it was a different fight and he took less punishment while turning the fight around at the same time. He ran out of time and lost but it was eye opening how effective fighters can be by throwing the book out and open it up.

Provodnikov has sh!t boxing skills, bad results, and gets hit a ton -- so you wouldn't copy his style regardless of what he's doing. And more boxers haven't adopted the styles of Prince Hamed, Sergio Martinez, and Roy Jones Jr because they got hit, knocked down, and knocked out.

And you don't gain punching speed by dropping both hands below your waist... It looks really cool but you're just easier to hit... Keeping your hands up is basic science... Ricardo Lopez never lost a fight in over 50 fights and he was extremely disciplined about keeping his hands up... He was too fanatical about it in fact -- because you don't need extremes. But his offense wasn't slow and his defense was tough to penetrate.

Ali fought with his hands down and his defense was easy to break. He got tagged and dumped and lost a few fights to the few decent boxers he ever fought. Plus that, some fights Ali "won" he took massive amounts of punishment. Do you like to get hit??? Copy that style and you will. Ali used the peek-a-boo on the ropes -- and whenever it suited him he tried to hide behind his gloves -- but opponents riddled his defense because the peek-a-boo doesn't work ... 1st, the peek-a-boo puts tension on your arms making you slow... 2nd, you can't see a punch coming if your glove is obscuring your line of vision in any way... 3rd, how do you get your hands off is they're not in position to punch because you're being too defensive???

What works is having a great scientific stance with your hands in position to lead, block or counter.. What doesn't work is leaning, pushing, wrestling, and grabbing, because that's against the rules -- and it has nothing to do with the science of Boxing.. Klitschko couldn't get crap going in his last fight because he fought a much taller guy with much longer arms.. He's style was useless.. Lomachenko has fantastic results and has never been knocked down or hurt in over 400 amateur and professional fights. Maybe it has something to do with his stance, balance, footwork, hand position, defensive finesse, mastery of every punch, mastery of angles, and his ability to keep unique combinations rolling one after another if he's fighting somebody taller, shorter, or he same height. If you want to copy somebody's technique, you can't go wrong with Loma.

Valero certainly wasn't a Lomachenko, and wasn't a perfect boxer -- but he had better technique than 99% of the fighters out there. He used his feet well, defended well, didn't need to grab or hold, had a good arsenal of punches, could defend himself well and keep combination rolling. He fought Tony DeMarco all the way with a savagely slashed elbow cut that was bleeding like crazy. He refused to let his corner stop it because he didn't want a TD win.. He wanted a KO win to preserve his perfect KO ratio. That's a little nuts when you're bleeding like a stuck pig, but he was a perfectionist.

Modern day id say tyson fury. The man hits himself for starters, mega confusing for any opponent. But seriously he is a great spoiler.

also Spider Rico.

Usyk is awkward and very skilled

Kalan wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Prince Hamed, Sergio Martinez and Roy Jones Jr.

Three very different styles but one main similarity is that all three fought 95% of the time with their hands down by their side. It surprises that more boxers haven't adopted this style. You obviously have to have premier speed to be successful but to me, I prefer this style over the peek a boo style that most boxers have. In the P-A-Boo, boxers are 100% defensive and no threat to throw back. I hate this style. With the hands down, you can return more effectively and counter easier.

Provodnikov fought using the P-A-Boo style against Molina for 8 rounds and got his clock cleaned. As soon as he dropped his hands, it was a different fight and he took less punishment while turning the fight around at the same time. He ran out of time and lost but it was eye opening how effective fighters can be by throwing the book out and open it up.

Provodnikov has sh!t boxing skills, bad results, and gets hit a ton -- so you wouldn't copy his style regardless of what he's doing. And more boxers haven't adopted the styles of Prince Hamed, Sergio Martinez, and Roy Jones Jr because they got hit, knocked down, and knocked out.

And you don't gain punching speed by dropping both hands below your waist... It looks really cool but you're just easier to hit... Keeping your hands up is basic science... Ricardo Lopez never lost a fight in over 50 fights and he was extremely disciplined about keeping his hands up... He was too fanatical about it in fact -- because you don't need extremes. But his offense wasn't slow and his defense was tough to penetrate.

Ali fought with his hands down and his defense was easy to break. He got tagged and dumped and lost a few fights to the few decent boxers he ever fought. Plus that, some fights Ali "won" he took massive amounts of punishment. Do you like to get hit??? Copy that style and you will. Ali used the peek-a-boo on the ropes -- and whenever it suited him he tried to hide behind his gloves -- but opponents riddled his defense because the peek-a-boo doesn't work ... 1st, the peek-a-boo puts tension on your arms making you slow... 2nd, you can't see a punch coming if your glove is obscuring your line of vision in any way... 3rd, how do you get your hands off is they're not in position to punch because you're being too defensive???

What works is having a great scientific stance with your hands in position to lead, block or counter.. What doesn't work is leaning, pushing, wrestling, and grabbing, because that's against the rules -- and it has nothing to do with the science of Boxing.. Klitschko couldn't get crap going in his last fight because he fought a much taller guy with much longer arms.. He's style was useless.. Lomachenko has fantastic results and has never been knocked down or hurt in over 400 amateur and professional fights. Maybe it has something to do with his stance, balance, footwork, hand position, defensive finesse, mastery of every punch, mastery of angles, and his ability to keep unique combinations rolling one after another if he's fighting somebody taller, shorter, or he same height. If you want to copy somebody's technique, you can't go wrong with Loma.

Valero certainly wasn't a Lomachenko, and wasn't a perfect boxer -- but he had better technique than 99% of the fighters out there. He used his feet well, defended well, didn't need to grab or hold, had a good arsenal of punches, could defend himself well and keep combination rolling. He fought Tony DeMarco all the way with a savagely slashed elbow cut that was bleeding like crazy. He refused to let his corner stop it because he didn't want a TD win.. He wanted a KO win to preserve his perfect KO ratio. That's a little nuts when you're bleeding like a stuck pig, but he was a perfectionist.

First off, Ali's defense was remarkable in his prime. The beatings that he withstood happened when he got older and less disciplined defensively. I'm not saying that the hands down stance should replace a sound scientific boxing stance, I've just seen some boxers turn fights around with it and I think that it has a place in the ring if used effectively. The P-A-B does nothing but put a green light up over a boxers head telling the other boxer to pound away. They don't have to worry about being countered and the assault is on. When boxers effectively use the hands down, they invite more opportunities to score. I'd argue that hands down technique decreases the opposing boxers punch output. I've seen it way too many times to not be true.

Sergio, RJJ and Prince are 3 legendary boxers and ATG in there divisions so there's evidence supporting the theory. But we are also talking about 3 amazingly athletic individuals with all of God's gifts at their disposal. Some current boxers that I think would be good fits for the style would be Terrance Crawford, Adrian Broner, Gary Russell Jr and Spence Jr. Those special boxers with speed to spend.

Ricardo Mayorga, who was super dangerous in 02-03.

At that time and at welter he had a little speed and some stamina to go along with his power too.

Say what you want about the guy but prime Mayorga was capable of pulling an upset off against any welter of any time period.

Prime Mayorga would mangle Cotto, Maidana, and maybe even welterweight Oscar and Tito.

Depends on your definition of awkward. Lots of people are naming highly skilled boxers that are awkward to fight against because you can't hit them (Roy, Whitaker, Ali). For me the difference is those guys have all the skill, ability and athleticism in the world but choose to fight that way - if you asked them to box normally, just using the basics, the chances are they'd still win (2 olympic golds and silver between them). Maybe a Martinez type fighter would count, although he was excellent, he was very unorthodox and due to his late start in the sport wasn't as fundamentally sound as those other 3.

When I think of "awkward" boxers I tend to think of either

1) guys who unintentionally make mistakes but are strangely effective, maybe someone like Froch who makes plenty of technical mistakes but can still be deceptively good
or 2) guys that are difficult to look against without being great themselves, eg Chilemba is awkward to fight against because he can make you look bad without doing a whole lot himself

Could possibly stretch to another type of awkward fighter as well
3) Someone who has strange (usually tall, lanky, rangey) dimensions for his weight class, like Paul Williams being 6'1 at 147.