BoxRec

Thanks, Jaclem... I will look for the book on Rocky M. It sounds like that will add a lot of info to my hunt for Hurley in the 40's and early 50's, as he was butting heads with the IBC.
I now have a wealth of information on Vince Foster (a bow to RobertSnell) and some of the folks associated with Omaha boxing. Also thanks to Simonpure who, among other information, turned me to an older entry about the night Sam Baroudi died. Foster fought that night, but its a great in-person account on Ezzard Charles. His story really captured my imagination.
In other news, my grandfather has made contact with an old friend in Omaha... she dated Vince Foster's brother in the 40's and is still in touch with him and it seems another brother, Chuck, lives here in NYC. Who knows, but I may have the opportunity to talk with them...
In due time, for anyone interested in Vince Foster, I will post an accumulation of information in the coming weeks. I guess I'll drop it on a new thread...
To Jaclem... maybe you can answer this. I got the name Billy Smith from my grandfather as he remembers him from the late 40's in Omaha, yet I may have missed it, but I didn't see any connection between Boardwalk and Omaha... My grandfather led me to believe that he was FROM Omaha. I don't know how that works... but he is also the one who led me to believe that Billy Smith and Watson were one in the same, though I now think he was mistaken. He does say that Tuck Shadden trained him and Tuck was out of Omaha. Can you verify this? Its sort of a sidebar to my main interest but I am curious.

KnowThePast wrote:Thanks, Jaclem... I will look for the book on Rocky M. It sounds like that will add a lot of info to my hunt for Hurley in the 40's and early 50's, as he was butting heads with the IBC.
I now have a wealth of information on Vince Foster (a bow to RobertSnell) and some of the folks associated with Omaha boxing. Also thanks to Simonpure who, among other information, turned me to an older entry about the night Sam Baroudi died. Foster fought that night, but its a great in-person account on Ezzard Charles. His story really captured my imagination.
In other news, my grandfather has made contact with an old friend in Omaha... she dated Vince Foster's brother in the 40's and is still in touch with him and it seems another brother, Chuck, lives here in NYC. Who knows, but I may have the opportunity to talk with them...
In due time, for anyone interested in Vince Foster, I will post an accumulation of information in the coming weeks. I guess I'll drop it on a new thread...
To Jaclem... maybe you can answer this. I got the name Billy Smith from my grandfather as he remembers him from the late 40's in Omaha, yet I may have missed it, but I didn't see any connection between Boardwalk and Omaha... My grandfather led me to believe that he was FROM Omaha. I don't know how that works... but he is also the one who led me to believe that Billy Smith and Watson were one in the same, though I now think he was mistaken. He does say that Tuck Shadden trained him and Tuck was out of Omaha. Can you verify this? Its sort of a sidebar to my main interest but I am curious.

Thank you for the kind words its been a pleasure. as it has been said where else but boxrec can you get this kind of info - no slight intended to cbz -.

I would like to say that anybody who would wish to have copies of the info , newspaper articles, which I have managed to find so far then please get in touch and I will send the onto you . the ones one Hurley are well worth a read for the laugh.

knowpast----There were a lot of billy smiths over the years, so perhaps your father is confusing Oakland/bardwalk billy with another one. the billy smith i'm referring to fought ot of oakland and around california from the beginning of his career and for a long period after. never fought in omaha and was too well known at the time to have fought under another name. he made cincinnati his home base for a while and fought there and around the midwest. he changed his name to boardwalk when he moved to new jersey, though he didn't fight there often...but did fight in the east.

he was a colorful fighter and fought many of the best lightheavys of his era....but it's late..i'm sleepy....but i will add any stories i haven't already written when i have my next caffeine fit.

glad you're finding so much information you've been looking for....the answers that others have supplied have been interesting tand informative to many of the rest of us too.

If I remember correctly 'Oakland'/'Boardwalk' (and disappearing) Billy Smith was arrested for 'spousal abuse' at least once and wound up being a traffic cop or highway patrol cop in Nebraska.

This is information I was given a while back when researching my book on Charley Burley. The guy that told me the stories about Smith was an amateur on the west coast in the 40s and worked with Burley, Eddie Booker, Lloyd Marshall and a few other pros.

Smith was California state Lightheavy champ in the 40s beofre moving to Atlantic City. He fought some tough, top-notch guys during his career.

If someone could tell me how to attach an image to this thread I will post a decent picture I have of Smith.[/img]

...boxscribe...thanks. billy was also something called a turnkey in a new jersey jail for a while.

someone posted somehwere that he had seen a film of billy against burley, which i'd love to see. he fought him twice, lost decisions both times, but i assume he must at least have been somewhat competive, and he has a kayo over lloyd marshall.

if you can post a picture, great. it would be even greater if it would be in color. he was a medium colored african/american...about like ali, i'd say, and had red hair, which made him easy to recognize out of the ring. once i passed a house and saw him mowing the lawn and i called a hello to him and he returned the greeting, with a "glad you know me" comment.

I have the Burley v Smith fight (2nd) and Smith v Moore from 1946. Also some Lloyd Marshall. I wish there was some Holman Williams, Jack chase and Eddie Booker stuff around.

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That's an excellent photo.

I'm interrupting a bit with this question, but I'd like to ask: In the BoxRec profile for Rocky Graziano, Jack Hurley shares the box with Irving Cohen as Manager... Can anyone tell me more about this? When this occurred?

I typed up a long bit of biography, compiling most of what I've gathered on Vince Foster... alas, I had forgotten to sign in and lost it. I'll give it another go when I recover from the loss.

...thanks so much for the photo!!!! it's been so many years since i've seen him...in person, in magazine pictures or on b/w tv that if it had been run as a "who is the boxer?" trivia question, i wouldn't have recognized him.

Vincent Lee Foster
b. Aug 17, 1927 d. July 18, 1949
Vince Foster was raised in Rulo, Nebraska. His father was Irish. His mother Potawatomi Indian. Foster had dark hair and blue eyes.
(I'll skip what I have on his childhood until after I have the chance to talk with his brother.)
As a teenager he got in a lot of scrapes with the law. At 15 he was sent to Haskell Indian Institute, Kansas, and fought on the boxing team. Haskell hosted a boxing tournament with the team from Fort Leavenworth, where Foster was matched with a prisoner named Tommy Barbella. It was a "close and vicious fight" though the 19 year-old Barbella defeated him. Foster later discovered his opponent was a pro who fought under the name Rocky Graziano. Graziano was doing a year in Leavenworth for going AWOL from the army.
Foster left Haskell and began training in Omaha. He fought in the Golden Gloves and made the semi-finals. In 1946 he turned pro. Foster was known as a playboy with the ladies and a problem drinker. He went undefeated for 13 fights, winning most by knockout. Before his 13th fight with Everett "Sparky" Reynolds, another local boxer, Don Lee, stepped into the ring and said he'd fight the winner. Foster won, though he lost for the first time his next fight versus Ben Montabano (points).
Five months later, October 1947, he fought Don Lee-- the first of three bouts with him. The first ending in a draw, the second Foster lost on points, the last Lee KO'd Foster in the tenth-- the only time Foster was ever KO'd. Lee had more than ten pounds on Foster and soon after their last bout, Lee lost to Sugar Ray Robinson.
In the beginning of 1948, an Omaha promoter called upon the services of Jack Hurley to train Foster for his fight versus Freddie Archer. Hurley had his hands full with Foster who fought only ten fights 1947 and eleven in 1948 and was know as being hard to find most the time and always in need of straightening out before each fight. All this changed in the summer of '48.
Hurley had taken Foster to Chicago. Returning from the gym to the hotel they past Moody Memorial Church. Hurley commented on what a great venue the church would make, "It seats 4000 and is set up in an oval." Foster later went to the church to see it and was greatly affected by what he heard there. He became a crusader. He gave up drinking and frowned heavily upon swearing. He carried a Bible, even to the ring where he'd give Bibles to his opponents.
Foster's new found Christian lifestyle at least increased his focus and soon after Hurley had him signed to fight in Madison Square Garden. First, he beat Nick Mistovich, then his most famed fight versus Tony Pellone. Pellone was considered the gate keeper of NY, Foster knocked him out in seven giving Pellone the first real KO of his career (he had once before fallen out of the ring and busted his kneecap).
After beating Pellone, Foster was thrust into the limelight. He was considered boxing's new golden boy and the press worked to build him into a serious contender. He cancelled a fight with Beau Jack to fight Charley Fusari in February. Hurley was in negotiations for bouts with Graziano and Kid Gavilan in the summer. Foster returned to Omaha with Life Magazine, who did a six page expose, and fought Phil Burton. Afterwards, everything fell apart.
Foster was supposed to arrive in Chicago to train for his fight with Fusari, but failed to show up. He finally turned up arrested in Missouri for rape. His fight with Fusari was cancelled and two months went by before he fought again. The rape charges were dropped for lack of evidence, but a $100,000 civil suit was filled against Foster for a pregnancy that allegedly arose from the encounter. About the charges, Foster was quoted as saying, "God did this to put me in check."
In April Foster won a contraversial split decision against Chuck Taylor, then went to NY to fight the rescheduled bout versus Fusari. Foster was slightly favored in the fight, but was knocked down three times in the first round before the ref stopped the fight.
Foster returned to Nebraska on "indefinite vacation" and was reported as saying, "God may not want me to fight anymore." In July 1949, after attending a barn dance, Foster's car struck the back of a cattle truck at 80 mph. Foster and an 18 yr old girl were killed.

..great stuff about one of those comets who flashed so brightly and then burned out too soon. i don't know of anyplace these days other than this forum to find stories like this.

Stanley Kubrick was going to do a docu-movie in the 60's on an interesting obscure fighter, I can't remember if he did it and it got turned done or he started to do it and didn't complete it or did he even start it at all?

Anyhow was this the fighter he was/did portraid? I seem to think it might have been.

The boxer was Walter Cartier. The movie has been on TV a couple of times.

Cartier was a middleweight who boxed in the 4os & 50s. He mixed in good company too. He took Joey Giardello to points, but lost by KO to other top names including Kid Gavilan and Bobo Olsen. Rnady Turpin also beat him on a DQ.

Thanks, was the film good, what was it called?

May I suggest anyone seriously interested in this film search and read the thread, "Stanley Kubrick's "Day of the Fight."

It's right there for you.

KnowThePast asked about the fight crowd of the 1940's, and where Vince Foster might have trained while living in Chicago.

Foster trained at the Ringside Gym which was located at 70 W. Madison St. in the heart of Chicago's Loop. The gym was operated by the Spunt brothers, Danny and Sammy, who also promoted at Marigold Gardens, managed boxers and sold photos of their charges to 13-year-olds for 50-cents a clip. Sweethearts, both.

The Ringside Gym, which also had a State Street entrance and a sign above stating that "Professional Boxers Train Here Daily", was the place white boxers of note trained. Black boxers such as the great Robinson, his policeman, Gene Burton, Bratton and Rawlings might drop downtown for a press meeting or photo shoot, but they trained more often at Johnny Coulon's Gym on the city's south side.

For a youngster and a non-combatant, the Ringside Gym was a lovely place. In appearance, similar to Stillman's in New York or the Main Street Gym in Los Angeles, as seen in countless fillms and stills. But being in Chicago and having one less ring it had developed its own character. Much of that character came from the yellow turning brown posters covering the walls. And the names thrilled: Ray "Sugar" Robinson vs. Sgt. Lou Woods; "Tiger" Jack Fox vs. Orlando Trotter and Bratton vs. Angott. As all of my visits to the "Ringside" were in the early afternoon....while my parents attended a movie and stage show at the nearby State-Lake or Chicago Theatre....I never did see a professional boxer train there. Never! One of the Spunts did wake middleweight Joe Arthur from a nap to inscribe his photo to me. The Indianapolis boxer was such a gentleman that I have never forgotten him.

The main difference in fight crowds then and now was apparel. Men wore suits, ties and, of course, hats. Adams Hats was an early sponsor of boxing on television. The smoke was thick and the women were flashy and there was a sense in the air of considerable cash changing hands.
So green, so far from the farm and so carried away with the moment, the first time I sat ringside at Marigold Gardens it took me nearly half-an-hour to realize there was no one sitting beside nor behind me. I was alone while the "cigars" were standing at the back of the lot....the card being held outdoors....making bets on every round, every bout, every falling star.

That's a strange image to imagine, empty ringside seats with crowds in the back trading bets like the stock exchange, watching the fights through a smoky haze. Not that I believe everything I see in the movies, but no movie I've ever seen has represented the scene like that. Was that normally the case even in large venues such as Chicago Stadium and Madison Square Garden? When did this stop? I'm not sure what to ask, Simonpure, but I'd like to know more about this. Most of all, thanks so much for sharing your experiences on the forum. The information I have read here has helped clarify so much that otherwise I would have never known.

Its been facinating to read all the various information thus far and it will be very interesting to see what further information is posted.

The part about "He carried a Bible, even to the ring where he'd give Bibles to his opponents. " is to say the least a bit strange and I would love to see any photos of this going on. Bible thumping takes on a whole new meaning !!

Knowthepast. Hello, I'd love to exchange emails with you. I'd love to know what info you have on Vince Foster. He was my husbands great uncle. His grandfather told stories about him and he and my husband even share a birthday. I've been recently looking into finding old articles about him for my husband abd would love to hear what you have. I know this thread is very old so this is a long shot. My email address is [email protected]

This year, John Ochs finally had a massive three-volume series of books about Jack Hurley and his times published. Steve Kompton, the highly knowledgeable author of a massive Harry Greb biography, went to great lengths in recommending this series of books about Hurley.

- Chuck Johnston