BoxRec

Leave Russian athletes alone!

Horse wrote:Leave Russian athletes alone!

Let them use drugs! Please!!!

Seems like most countries are, and are brushing it under the carpet one way or another

Kalan wrote:You're still stupid!!! The WBC and VADA are in cahoots... The WBC is forcing boxers to use VADA exclusively on a mandatory basis... They're crooks who work hand in hand to keep the titles in North America and destroy promotions in Eastern Europe. VADA was forced to admit they were wrong about Povetkin failing any tests for Meldonium and the WBC reluctantly agreed that Povetkin did nothing wrong and kept him the top contender.. Now they're pulling the same BS.. This crap was all manufactured to destroy Russian as a major venue for World Championship Fights and keep America's only Heavyweight Champion in a long time. If you mess up once, why would anybody believe you the next time in the same circumstance???

Wow - can someone get Kalan a straight jacket? I've never seen so much unwarranted rage. Your conspiracy theories are becoming a little nauseating. Do you have any evidence to back up your rambling gibberish or do you just smash your forehead into the keyboard and hope for the best? I suppose the consistent castration of GGG backs your claims up too? The WBC middleweight champion, a Kazakh national, about as Eastern European as they come. If Povetkin was so harshly dealt with, do you think we'll see a law suit against VADA or the WBC?

At the end of the day, the disgusting use of state sponsored drug abuse in Russia has a gone a long way to discredit anything that Russian's say in regards to 'clean sport'. This latest drug report only serves to make matters much worse. There's nothing you can say which will change the minds of the comfortable majority in this forum. Why the hell would VADA announce a false test result, then not make a retraction statement? Why have we not heard from the WBC yet? Why when we hear anything of an explanation, its from Ryabinsky? And what's the latest excuse?

'had only a minor trace of ostarine - [0,00000000001g] - which Povetkin's team suggests is evidence that he ingested the substance several months if not a year earlier either through food or some nutritional supplement'.

Absolutely unacceptable. That excuse would be laughed off in any other sport, absolutely no reason why this should be any different. The guy should be ashamed of himself.

Rob3_142 wrote:

Kalan wrote:You're still stupid!!! The WBC and VADA are in cahoots... The WBC is forcing boxers to use VADA exclusively on a mandatory basis... They're crooks who work hand in hand to keep the titles in North America and destroy promotions in Eastern Europe. VADA was forced to admit they were wrong about Povetkin failing any tests for Meldonium and the WBC reluctantly agreed that Povetkin did nothing wrong and kept him the top contender.. Now they're pulling the same BS.. This crap was all manufactured to destroy Russian as a major venue for World Championship Fights and keep America's only Heavyweight Champion in a long time. If you mess up once, why would anybody believe you the next time in the same circumstance???

Wow - can someone get Kalan a straight jacket? I've never seen so much unwarranted rage. Your conspiracy theories are becoming a little nauseating. Do you have any evidence to back up your rambling gibberish or do you just smash your forehead into the keyboard and hope for the best? I suppose the consistent castration of GGG backs your claims up too? The WBC middleweight champion, a Kazakh national, about as Eastern European as they come. If Povetkin was so harshly dealt with, do you think we'll see a law suit against VADA or the WBC?

At the end of the day, the disgusting use of state sponsored drug abuse in Russia has a gone a long way to discredit anything that Russian's say in regards to 'clean sport'. This latest drug report only serves to make matters much worse. There's nothing you can say which will change the minds of the comfortable majority in this forum. Why the hell would VADA announce a false test result, then not make a retraction statement? Why have we not heard from the WBC yet? Why when we hear anything of an explanation, its from Ryabinsky? And what's the latest excuse?

'had only a minor trace of ostarine - [0,00000000001g] - which Povetkin's team suggests is evidence that he ingested the substance several months if not a year earlier either through food or some nutritional supplement'.

Absolutely unacceptable. That excuse would be laughed off in any other sport, absolutely no reason why this should be any different. The guy should be ashamed of himself.

It's not rage... These bastards lied their asses off you stupid simpleton... They inferred Povetkin was guilty when he wasn't -- and destroyed Ryabinsky's promotion for the Wilder-Povekin fight... Now they did the same with the Stiverne-Povetkin fight... After allowing Stiverne to fight after he tested positive for dimethyamylamine.. He had way over the allowable dose in his system.

They claim Povetkin tested "adversely" again.. They never said he failed a test -- they're using innuendo again.. a nanogram is 0.0000000001 of a gram... If you talking 0.00000000001g you're talking 100 picograms.. A nanogram is one trillionth of a gram... a picogram quadrillionth of a gram. When you're talking such very tiny, minute traces, you're talking about a contaminated sample -- not an amount that could possibly enhance the performance of any athlete. It's kind of funny that foreign athletes have been the targets of this scam

Kalan wrote: It's not rage... These bastards lied their asses off you stupid simpleton... They inferred Povetkin was guilty when he wasn't -- and destroyed Ryabinsky's promotion for the Wilder-Povekin fight... Now they did the same with the Stiverne-Povetkin fight... After allowing Stiverne to fight after he tested positive for dimethyamylamine.. He had way over the allowable dose in his system.

They claim Povetkin tested "adversely" again.. They never said he failed a test -- they're using innuendo again.. a nanogram is 0.0000000001 of a gram... If you talking 0.00000000001g you're talking 100 picograms.. A nanogram is one trillionth of a gram... a picogram quadrillionth of a gram. When you're talking such very tiny, minute traces, you're talking about a contaminated sample -- not an amount that could possibly enhance the performance of any athlete. It's kind of funny that foreign athletes have been the targets of this scam

Thank you ever so much for the lesson in the logarithmic scale, of course it is completely irrelevant to this discussion, but thanks non-the-less.

I think this situation goes to show how serious Russia take doping, and in particular how doping is treated in boxing. Since 1976 16 British athletes in Athletics have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, with Christine Ohuruogu being handed a 12 month ban for simply missing three tests, irrespective of how legitimate her excuses were. The US have received 94 bans in the same time frame (Athletics alone). Here we're talking about a man who has had two tests which have shown adverse findings, and no action has been taken. There is no conspiracy against Povetkin, just a lack of ownership for his actions. The WBC have lost out on two sanctioning fees through this mess, so to think they're so pleased about 'protecting the Americans' you're way off.

Rob3_142 wrote:

Kalan wrote: It's not rage... These bastards lied their asses off you stupid simpleton... They inferred Povetkin was guilty when he wasn't -- and destroyed Ryabinsky's promotion for the Wilder-Povekin fight... Now they did the same with the Stiverne-Povetkin fight... After allowing Stiverne to fight after he tested positive for dimethyamylamine.. He had way over the allowable dose in his system.

They claim Povetkin tested "adversely" again.. They never said he failed a test -- they're using innuendo again.. a nanogram is 0.0000000001 of a gram... If you talking 0.00000000001g you're talking 100 picograms.. A nanogram is one trillionth of a gram... a picogram quadrillionth of a gram. When you're talking such very tiny, minute traces, you're talking about a contaminated sample -- not an amount that could possibly enhance the performance of any athlete. It's kind of funny that foreign athletes have been the targets of this scam

Thank you ever so much for the lesson in the logarithmic scale, of course it is completely irrelevant to this discussion, but thanks non-the-less.

I think this situation goes to show how serious Russia take doping, and in particular how doping is treated in boxing. Since 1976 16 British athletes in Athletics have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, with Christine Ohuruogu being handed a 12 month ban for simply missing three tests, irrespective of how legitimate her excuses were. The US have received 94 bans in the same time frame (Athletics alone). Here we're talking about a man who has had two tests which have shown adverse findings, and no action has been taken. There is no conspiracy against Povetkin, just a lack of ownership for his actions. The WBC have lost out on two sanctioning fees through this mess, so to think they're so pleased about 'protecting the Americans' you're way off.

I can name a lot more then just 94 actually, even a lot more then 2ce that...
Mary Akor Basley
Duncan Atwood
Randy Barnes
Kenta Bell
Gwen Berry
Michael Berry
Scott Boothby
Kevin Braunskill
Jillian Camarena-Williams
John Capel
LaMark Carter
Damu Cherry
Hazel Clark
Ramon Clay
Michelle Collins
Harold Connolly
Jessica Cosby
Crystal Cox
Shawn Crawford
Bonnie Dasse
Walter Davis
Mary Decker
Tony Dees
Jim Doehring
Jon Drummond
Debbie Dunn
Monzavous Edwards
Torri Edwards
Sandra Farmer-Patrick
Greg Foster
Brian Frasure
Jake Freeman
Chryste Gaines
Justin Gatlin
Tyson Gay
Sandra Glover
Mike Gravelle
Bill Green
Mickey Grimes
Alvin Harrison
Calvin Harrison
Floyd Heard
Eddy Hellebuyck
C.J. Hunter
Kathy Jager
Cordera Jenkins
Mark Jelks
Regina Jacobs
Marion Jones
Kamy Keshmiri
Atalelech Ketema
Gary Kinder
Jeff Laynes
Carl Lewis
Jud Logan
Chris Lukezic
LaVonna Martin-Floreal
John McEwen
Inika McPherson
LaShawn Merritt
Inger Miller
Dennis Mitchell
Tim Montgomery
Melissa Myerscough
Larry Myricks
Al Oerter
Antonio Pettigrew
Chris Phillips
Ben Plucknett
Butch Reynolds
Mike Rodgers
Duane Ross
Serene Ross
Mark Rowe
Timothy Rusan
Lindsey Scherf
Wallace Spearmon
Mike Stulce
Art Swarts
Gregg Tafralis
Kory Tarpenning
Eric Thomas
Kevin Toth
Larry Wade
Erick Walder
Delisa Walton-Floyd
Kelli White
Bernard Williams
Diane Williams
Ivory Williams
Jerome Young
Lance Armstrong
Tom Danielson
George Hincapie
Levi Leipheimer
Christian Vande Velde
David Zabriskie
Bobby Julich
Jonathan Vaughters
Shelby Stacy
Julio Cruz
David Anthony
Monica Bascio
Cyril Jay-Rayon
Kirk O'Bee
Juan Pineda
Scott Moninger
Amber Neben
Adham Sbeih
David Fuentes
Stephen Alfred
Joseph Michael Papp
Floyd Landis
Tyler Hamilton
Shannon Briggs
Mike Tyson
Andre Agassi
Darrell Alderman
Sadam Ali
A. J. Allmendinger
Lyle Alzado
Chris Andersen
Frankie Andreu
Abdallah Anwar
Sarah Baham
Josh Barnett
Phil Baroni
Doug Barron
Bryan Berard
Adam Bergman
Dale Berra
Alex Bogomolov Jr.
Barry Bonds
Stephan Bonnar
David Boston
Ryan Braun
Matt Bricker
Emily Brunneman
Rebekkah Brunson
Rachael Burke
Enos Cabell
Mike Cameron
Ken Caminiti
José Canseco
Roger Clemens
Chris Cooper
Kit Cope
Brian Cushing
Joey D'Antoni
Lindsay Devaney
Nick Diaz
Jerramie Domish
Aaron Fike
Ryan Franklin
Michael Gausman
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Dwight Gooden
Sam Grammer
Jason Grimsley
Kevin Grubb
Melvin Guillard
Dennis Hallman
Morgan Hamm
Jessica Hardy
Rodney Harrison
Keith Hernandez
Shane Hmiel
Mary Hofer
Al Holland
Steve Howe
James Irvin
Michael Irvin
Harrison Jones
Roy Jones Jr.
Robert Kendrick
Tonya Knight
Lee Lacy
Matt Lawton
Chris Leben
Kayle Leogrande
Jeffrey Leonard
Kimo Leopoldo
Kristen Lewis
Rashard Lewis
Paul Lo Duca
Kerry Lynch
Zach Lund
Sean Mahoney
Nate Marquardt
Landon Marzullo
Jeremy Mayfield
O. J. Mayo
Sean McCully
Mark McGwire
Tim McNeill
Shawne Merriman
Jeff Michels
Shane Monahan
Scott Moninger
Zachary Monsees
Josh Moreau
Mike Morse
Johnnie Morton
Shane Mosley
Kirk O'Bee
Ryan Newport
Rafael Palmeiro
Karo Parisyan
Dave Parker
Jermell Pennie
Andy Pettitte
Michael Phelps
Michael Picotte
Jorge Piedra
Juan Pineda
Tim Raines
Kevin Randleman
Shawn Ray
Stephen Rehrmann
Danny Rios
Barret Robbins
Grant Roberts
Alex Rodriguez
Bill Romanowski
Loren Ross
Todd Sauerbrun
Adam Sbieh
Orlando Scandrick
Mike Schmidt
David Segui
Ken Shamrock
Gary Sheffield
Sean Sherk
Steve Siler
Chael Sonnen
Adam Smith
Lonnie Smith
Lary Sorensen
Brandon Spikes
Darryl Strawberry
Jamal Strong
Marcus Stroud
Dana Stubblefield
Tim Sylvia
Antonio Tarver
Tammy Thomas
James Toney
Anthony Torres
Norik Vardanian
Fernando Vargas
Kicker Vencill
Joe Warren
Claudell Washington
Eric Watts
Wes Welker
Ricky Williams
Tara Zwink

...why don't we stick to professional boxing ...
Incidentally, Povetkin travels to the States to testify in Povetkin-Wilder case..Court proceedings will start in February...

greg wrote:...why don't we stick to professional boxing ...
Incidentally, Povetkin travels to the States to testify in Povetkin-Wilder case..Court proceedings will start in February...

Oooooo really?! How exciting! Do you think this second test will work against him in the Wilder case? You can see the defence trying to use it as a point of argument.

asdfjkl wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

Kalan wrote: It's not rage... These bastards lied their asses off you stupid simpleton... They inferred Povetkin was guilty when he wasn't -- and destroyed Ryabinsky's promotion for the Wilder-Povekin fight... Now they did the same with the Stiverne-Povetkin fight... After allowing Stiverne to fight after he tested positive for dimethyamylamine.. He had way over the allowable dose in his system.

They claim Povetkin tested "adversely" again.. They never said he failed a test -- they're using innuendo again.. a nanogram is 0.0000000001 of a gram... If you talking 0.00000000001g you're talking 100 picograms.. A nanogram is one trillionth of a gram... a picogram quadrillionth of a gram. When you're talking such very tiny, minute traces, you're talking about a contaminated sample -- not an amount that could possibly enhance the performance of any athlete. It's kind of funny that foreign athletes have been the targets of this scam

Thank you ever so much for the lesson in the logarithmic scale, of course it is completely irrelevant to this discussion, but thanks non-the-less.

I think this situation goes to show how serious Russia take doping, and in particular how doping is treated in boxing. Since 1976 16 British athletes in Athletics have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, with Christine Ohuruogu being handed a 12 month ban for simply missing three tests, irrespective of how legitimate her excuses were. The US have received 94 bans in the same time frame (Athletics alone). Here we're talking about a man who has had two tests which have shown adverse findings, and no action has been taken. There is no conspiracy against Povetkin, just a lack of ownership for his actions. The WBC have lost out on two sanctioning fees through this mess, so to think they're so pleased about 'protecting the Americans' you're way off.

I can name a lot more then just 94 actually, even a lot more then 2ce that...
Mary Akor Basley
Duncan Atwood
Randy Barnes
Kenta Bell
Gwen Berry
Michael Berry
Scott Boothby
Kevin Braunskill
Jillian Camarena-Williams
John Capel
LaMark Carter
Damu Cherry
Hazel Clark
Ramon Clay
Michelle Collins
Harold Connolly
Jessica Cosby
Crystal Cox
Shawn Crawford.....etc

Thanks for that. I did say athletics alone as an example. So looks like US athletes are not as protected as you imagined....

Well considering the United States has more pro athletes than any other country in the world.
It makes sense they would have larger numbers of drug cheats.
Now if we want to go by percentage of drug cheats to pro athletes by country tge US would not come close to Russia.

Rob3_142 wrote:

greg wrote:...why don't we stick to professional boxing ...
Incidentally, Povetkin travels to the States to testify in Povetkin-Wilder case..Court proceedings will start in February...

Oooooo really?! How exciting! Do you think this second test will work against him in the Wilder case? You can see the defence trying to use it as a point of argument.

..honestly, I don't think Ryabinski had a case in the first place, nothing that would amount to 35 million.. that was rather a knee-jerk response to the case filed by Wilder and his team...but then again I didn't follow closely what was or wasn't said and if that all amounts to libel...the second test results if confirmed will be more of a moral victory for Wilder than a legal one IMO...

Rob3_142 wrote:Thank you ever so much for the lesson in the logarithmic scale, of course it is completely irrelevant to this discussion, but thanks non-the-less. I think this situation goes to show how serious Russia take doping, and in particular how doping is treated in boxing. Since 1976 16 British athletes in Athletics have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, with Christine Ohuruogu being handed a 12 month ban for simply missing three tests, irrespective of how legitimate her excuses were. The US have received 94 bans in the same time frame (Athletics alone). Here we're talking about a man who has had two tests which have shown adverse findings, and no action has been taken. There is no conspiracy against Povetkin, just a lack of ownership for his actions. The WBC have lost out on two sanctioning fees through this mess, so to think they're so pleased about 'protecting the Americans' you're way off.

They're very pleased... They're not missing out on ANY sanctioning fees... They get sanctioning fees from Wilder and his opponent for every fight, regardless of how soft the opponent is... They want Wilder to fight often... fight soft challengers... and pay them lots of fees... They want the Heavyweight Champion to remain under their sphere of influence -- and they want to help their rich buddy promoters in North America -- and destroy Russia and Eastern European promoters and Russian and Eastern European venues for World Title Fights... They also don't want global promoters bidding up World Championship Fights, and don't want the competition.

And the concentration of Meldonium in Povetkin's sample isn't "completely irrelevant to this discussion" as you pretend... because WADA guidelines specifically stated that a concentration of less than 1 microgram (less than 1 millionth of a gram) of Meldonium in an athlete's sample was consistent with NOT taking Meldonium since the coming ban was announced last year... Povetkin only "adverse" sample had 1/14th the ALLOWABLE concentration of Meldonium... For complete simpletons, that's a small fraction of the allowable concentration -- so he easily passed the test that Ryabinsky's Wilder-Povetkin promotion was destroyed over. VADA did admit he passed all his tests in later documents and he stayed the number 1 contender.

tiny_acres wrote:Well considering the United States has more pro athletes than any other country in the world.
It makes sense they would have larger numbers of drug cheats.
Now if we want to go by percentage of drug cheats to pro athletes by country tge US would not come close to Russia.

Japan and the Netherlands combined have more athletes, somehow only a fraction of the amount of dopingusers. I'd have to admit with that, that I know the Dutch do a lot of teamsports like hockey, which adds like 30 athlethes or so at one, without much chance of dopers.

tiny_acres wrote:Well considering the United States has more pro athletes than any other country in the world.
It makes sense they would have larger numbers of drug cheats.
Now if we want to go by percentage of drug cheats to pro athletes by country tge US would not come close to Russia.

How would you know??? That's as biased a comment as I've ever read... Outside of boxers, soccer players, hockey players, and basketball players, Russia doesn't have a whole lot of pro athletes... But there's no evidence that the pro athletes who there take more PED's than Americans.

Kalan wrote:And the concentration of Meldonium in Povetkin's sample isn't "completely irrelevant to this discussion" as you pretend... because WADA guidelines specifically stated that a concentration of less than 1 microgram (less than 1 millionth of a gram) of Meldonium in an athlete's sample was consistent with NOT taking Meldonium since the coming ban was announced last year... Povetkin only "adverse" sample had 1/14th the ALLOWABLE concentration of Meldonium... For complete simpletons, that's a small fraction of the allowable concentration -- so he easily passed the test that Ryabinsky's Wilder-Povetkin promotion was destroyed over. VADA did admit he passed all his tests in later documents and he stayed the number 1 contender.

Just pack it in now.

greg wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

greg wrote:...why don't we stick to professional boxing ...
Incidentally, Povetkin travels to the States to testify in Povetkin-Wilder case..Court proceedings will start in February...

Oooooo really?! How exciting! Do you think this second test will work against him in the Wilder case? You can see the defence trying to use it as a point of argument.

..honestly, I don't think Ryabinski had a case in the first place, nothing that would amount to 35 million.. that was rather a knee-jerk response to the case filed by Wilder and his team...but then again I didn't follow closely what was or wasn't said and if that all amounts to libel...the second test results if confirmed will be more of a moral victory for Wilder than a legal one IMO...

Not wanting to play devil's advocate, but Elmira Kondratyeva, Partner at Forward Legal law firm, who is representing the interests of Boxing World, think that his chances for defamation are decent.

Kondratyeva wrote:We rate the chances of winning quite high, as Wilder’s statements are having an extremely negative impact on the reputation of one of the most respected boxers in the world.

Rob3_142 wrote:
Not wanting to play devil's advocate, but Elmira Kondratyeva, Partner at Forward Legal law firm, who is representing the interests of Boxing World, think that his chances for defamation are decent.

Kondratyeva wrote:We rate the chances of winning quite high, as Wilder’s statements are having an extremely negative impact on the reputation of one of the most respected boxers in the world.

..that's what the lawyers always say, don't they? It's their client after all...will be interesting to see what arguments they'll present in the courtroom and how the whole thing unfolds..

But in this case it's true... and they intend to sue the ass off of Deontay Wilder and Lou DiBella -- But I would hope they'd go after Victor Conte the worst creep in this whole creepy mess... He's the fox guarding the hen house... An ex-con PED pusher who founded VADA.

"from 1st January 2016, WADA included meldonium in the list of banned substances. But it has also recently announced that the excretion of meldonium from the body can take several months. In addition, WADA has stated that levels of less than one microgram do not require an athlete to stop participating in competitions. And WBC rules state that the Council is obliged to “consider all the circumstances” before taking adverse action in respect of doping tests. [They didn't]

Andrey Ryabinsky and Alexandr Povektin therefore regard the statements about the cancellation of the fight and accusations regarding the use of meldonium after its prohibition as defamation, and are demanding damages of more than $34.5 million from the defendants."

I wonder if DiBella is going to risk trying to bribe a judge with a few million... I wouldn't put it past him for a minute if he thought he could do it.

I also think the Ostarine charges are related to be sued by Povetkin and Ryabinski... They're doubling down - hoping to smear Povetkin further.

Yeah, good luck with defamation.

Tey would have to prove both that any statements by Wilder's team were substantially false and that the person making the statement knew it was false.

When there are failed tests during the time of the statements (regardless of what happened later) good luck proving the second element of that defamation definition.

ldlamb wrote:Yeah, good luck with defamation.

Tey would have to prove both that any statements by Wilder's team were substantially false and that the person making the statement knew it was false.

When there are failed tests during the time of the statements (regardless of what happened later) good luck proving the second element of that defamation definition.

No, defamation can be by negligence, i.e. not verifying if what you are saying is true.

Sounds like contamination

He will be cleared and Wilder will be forced to face him

ldlamb wrote:Yeah, good luck with defamation.

Tey would have to prove both that any statements by Wilder's team were substantially false and that the person making the statement knew it was false.

When there are failed tests during the time of the statements (regardless of what happened later) good luck proving the second element of that defamation definition.

The problem with that is, there were no failed tests for the Wilder-Povetkin fight.. VADA implied that there were failed tests to smear Povetkin with innuendo. But instead of listening to WADA, Ryabinsky, and Povetkin, Wilder made wild statements about cheating, steroid taking, the size of Povetkin's head, and said he felt he was dirty all along. Wilder and Dibella aren't the only haters who made unfounded statements -- but they made some of the worst statements and are the most famous and moneyed...

You go where the money is...because you can grab a % of Wilder's and DiBella's earnings for the next 5 or 10 years.. Or a jury might award you more than 35MM. I think Wilder and DiBella will try to settle for 10 million or something if they're smart. The amount wouldn't be disclosed. If they lose at trial it will make headlines around the world. If I were a Billionaire like Ryabinsky I wouldn't settle. Smashing Dibella and Wilder are worth more to them than the money.