BoxRec

dempseyfire

You are a nut.

you had to resort to name-calling, tsk tsk. all future disscussion by you in this thread will be comprehensively ignored.

klompton wrote:How many 200 pound+ men did Tommy Hearns ever knock out?

How many good 200+ pound men did Walcott knock out.

The fact is if Tommy was in that era he'd probably do the same in fact better since he was nearly a foot taller than Walcott.

He knocked out guys who would be heavyweights in that era.

In fact, he knocked out "heavyweights" Jay Snyder, Lenny Lapaglia, Dan Ward and Dan Ward out all in the FIRST ROUND. None of these were great cruisers but they were by no means corpses. And ask yourself, how good were the heavyweights Walcott knocked out?

And let's not forget he failed to knock out 37 opponents in his 95 wins and also had 23 draws.

Just my opinion but the old fighters seem to get special treatment in terms of how good they were, their greatness is exaggerated. Many fighters like Roy Jones Jr., if they were in that era they would be regarded as top 5 of all time.

IronKidDynamite wrote:

klompton wrote:How many 200 pound+ men did Tommy Hearns ever knock out?

How many good 200+ pound men did Walcott knock out.

The fact is if Tommy was in that era he'd probably do the same in fact better since he was nearly a foot taller than Walcott.

He knocked out guys who would be heavyweights in that era.

In fact, he knocked out "heavyweights" Jay Snyder, Lenny Lapaglia, Dan Ward and Dan Ward out all in the FIRST ROUND. None of these were great cruisers but they were by no means corpses. And ask yourself, how good were the heavyweights Walcott knocked out?

And let's not forget he failed to knock out 37 opponents in his 95 wins and also had 23 draws.

Just my opinion but the old fighters seem to get special treatment in terms of how good they were, their greatness is exaggerated. Many fighters like Roy Jones Jr., if they were in that era they would be regarded as top 5 of all time.

I don't know much about Walcott but to Langford's defense, he beat MANY men WELL over 200 lbs-Sam McVey, George Godfrey, Harry Willis, Brad Simmons, Bill Tate, Bearcat Wright, Sandy Ferguson, Joe Jeannette, Jim Johnson, and Klondike Haynes. To compare these guys to the stiffs Hearns fought at cruiserweight is insane. To compare it to Jones win over Ruiz is even more so. Jones would've found himself in much more difficult waters had he fought in 1915 rather then 1995, b/c he would've been "expected" to compete with the best heavyweights. A 190 lber beating a 220 lber; To consider that some 'big deal' is an insult to the multitudes of fighters who fought with such (and far greater) weight disparities before, not to mention against opponents far superior to the 'Quiet Man.'

from my previous post (2nd post in this thread):

15-6 13KO's going into his title fight against espada.
8-9 7KO's after his title reign (including the near decapitation by hearns)

yes i am aware cuevas had a suck-ass record before and after his title reigh. don't know why, my guess is he lost a few before winning his title becaseu he had not matured yet (he won the title at 18 years old right?).

after his title reign he had a .500 record. i feel it is because the hearns ko ruined him. although had legendary punching power, he didn't have legendary boxing skills.

there is also Langford, Al Brown, Ruben Olivares, Carlos Zarate, Wilfredo Gomez, Eranie Shavers, George Foreman. Cuevas though is one of the few fighters that I've seen who really takes your breath away with the destructiveness of his power.... he reminds me a lot of Foreman and Shavers and ofcourse they were Heavyweights!

yes all awesome power beasts, but all i'm trying to glean out of somebody, ANYBODY is some numarical figures in numbers of:


- ko's against guys never ko'd?
- broken BONES of opponents?

please provide info on the two criteria above when comparing punching power.

shavers, possibly the hardest hitting heavy ever. never ko'd anyone who hadn't been ko'd before and i never heard any of his fights ending with an opponent haveing broken bone(s). i did hear about shavers suffering a broken jaw once.

My vote would have to go to either Langford, or "Barbados" Joe Walcott. Langford consistently knocked out top fighters throughout his entire career, including during his last few years when he could hardly see his opponent in front of him. Someone asked in an earlier post, why did many fighters go the distance time and again with Langford, which was both true and untrue. Langford knocked out just about every fighter that said person mentioned at least once. There are more times than I can count that Langford did not give it his all in a slew of bouts in order to get a more lucrative bout against a fighter who was a great drawing card. For instance, Langford's bout with Stanley Ketchel that went six rounds, people like to think that the bout was even, which most newspapers agreed on, but after reading several different newspaper accounts of the bout, I have no doubt that Langford held back. He was hoping to land a twenty, or forty round bout against Ketchel for the title, but like so many other times in Langford's career, he was never given the opportunity. One thing is certain, Langford fought and beat some of the greatest fighters of all time, including many knockouts of great fighters, this he did for 20+ years, and unlike many fighters who lose their punch when they move up in weight, Langford carried the same brutal punch from the lightweight division up to the heavyweights and he knocked people cold with either hand. When a boxer fights 300+ bouts in their career, which only a handful of boxers have ever done, there will be fighters that just won't stay down, and due to the politics of the times, certain boxers had to look bad against certain opponents in order to get higher purses. Give me a few days and I'll put together a list of fighters that tasted the knockout for the first time against Langford.

About Walcott, he didn't knock out a lot of heavyweights, it was just a handful, Fred Russell and Sandy Ferguson probably being the largest that he fought, which I don't believe that he knocked out either, but he did knockout many men much larger than himself.

Give me a few days and I'll put together a list of fighters that tasted the knockout for the first time against Langford.

yes, thank you, and don't forget the langford's broken bones list

Stanley Ketchel could bang he knocked over Jack Johnson whos a top ten all time heavyweight when he was middle weight champion although he lost that fight his power must still be appreciated. Also Jack Dempsey broke a few bones in his time.

Also Tyson(prime) was the hardest hitting Heavy in history in my opinion and one of the hardest P4P.

If you use the arguement that Langford was a light heavy in his prime but knocked out heavies you also have to mention Bob Ftzsimmons who wieghed less than Langford and has to be considered one of the most murderous punchers ever.

As far a broken bones go, Roy Jones Jr. has broken ribs as well as jaws of opponents. I'll try to go through all my clips on Langford today, but I've only got clippings for around 70% of his fights, so are several bouts that I have no idea about. One ancedote that I recall is Langford's bout with John Lester Johnson. Johnson turned into Carl Lewis when the bell rang to start the bout, running the perimeter of the ring. Langford gave chase for a while, but decided it was a waste of time and stopped in center ring. Johnson continued his sprint, so Langford timed it and let loose a shot which caught Johnson in the small of the back on the spine. The shot completely paralyzed Johnson for something like five minutes.

You have clippings of 70% of Sam Langfords fights?

At least 70%, maybe a little more, or a little less.

...punch...johnny bratton broke bones a lot of times....unfortunately they were his own, in his brittle hands.

now, punchman, you know darn well that it is impossible to compare punchers on a p4p basis....it's hard enough to compare them within their own weight divisions.

..one good argument for cuevas....and i do NOT mean this as a put down but as a testament to his punching power. look at the other guys mentioned on this thread and you'll see many if not most of them had other skills...langford an excellent boxer...ditto for robinson....but cuevas got to the top almost exclusively with his power punching....as you point out he didn't have good defensive skills and wasn't much of a boxer and i don't know how good his chin was....most oppopnents weren't around long enough to test it.he was strictly a search and destroy guy...and he did both with impressive results.

here's an unsung hero of the ko crowd. if never-champ earnie shavers name always comes up in "hardest puncher" discussions, then this never-champ should be considered also.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=009388

pringle wrote:here's an unsung hero of the ko crowd. if never-champ earnie shavers name always comes up in "hardest puncher" discussions, then this never-champ should be considered also.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=009388

Your 'never champ' did not hit as hard as Shavers...no way....a good '70's heavyweight, but he did not hit as hard as Shavers....