BoxRec

Tomasino wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Total garbage to suggest Frampton's legacy took a big hit. Comments like that show why some fighters are more interested in building unbeaten records against nobodies than challenging themselves against the best available.

Nutshell! This is what bixing is all about. Someone's got to lose the fight. Legacy shouldn't come into it. If more fights like this were made the sport would be richer and more popular and more top guys would have more losses.

Bixing you say?

forcefraser wrote:

Horse wrote:

TheLeprechaun wrote:I though Frampton was a level above Santa Cruz and could compete with the likes of Russell Jr

You think that Russell Jr is better than Santa Cruz?

I think he could be, not done enough to show that yet though.

He should be but he is a joke of a fighter.

TheLeprechaun wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Frampton legacy took a big hit when he ducked Rigo, in my eyes anyway. I think what happened is that LSC filled up his huge frame and this time around came in as a massive feather . Frampton was too small to be effective. I predicted that Frampton wont do very well in FW, he is too much of a midget. Now I am convinced he looses to all top guys there. But thats hat happens when you run from the best. He should come down to super bantam and fight Rigo. LSC is noting special, he will loose to Russel Jr, Valdez and perhaps even to Selby.

Yeah people don't realize how bad LSC is. They are Massively overrating him off the back of this like he's an all time great. Russell wouldn't lose a round against him. Naz Hamed would have blasted him into next week.

But I don't blame frampton for ducking rigondeaux. This is a guy who did nothing when he broke dickens jaw and had him running. He's never been smart enough to make himself a draw and I'd rather watch pain dry than watch a rigondeaux fight.

You've obviously only been watching the sport for a brief time and have no idea what you're talking about.

TheLeprechaun wrote:

TheCobra wrote:It was a good close fight between two world level operators. Boxing needs more of that and less record building, less store needs to be put on the 'unbeaten records' but unfortunately it seems to sell fights better to the casuals. It's like saying Froch's legacy suffered cos of his 2 defeats, it didn't because he was fighting the best rather than padding out a record.

How good is Santa Cruz though? I don't think he would beat Selby, or even Scott Quigg for that matter. The bookies would probably price quigg and Selby as slight favorites if those fights were made

A couple of years ago when they were at super bantam weight I was absolutely convinced Quigg would smash Santa Cruz. This was when Leo was fighting absolute shite.

But now Quigg would have minimal chance Leo has shown not to have defensive frailties when he has stepped up to top class opposition and I think his punch output would be far too high for Quigg.

It would be a good watch and even with Gallagher in the corner Leo would actually make him fight so I don't think we would see a do f*ck all for 6 rounds Gallagher gameplan.

Shambles wrote:

TheLeprechaun wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Frampton legacy took a big hit when he ducked Rigo, in my eyes anyway. I think what happened is that LSC filled up his huge frame and this time around came in as a massive feather . Frampton was too small to be effective. I predicted that Frampton wont do very well in FW, he is too much of a midget. Now I am convinced he looses to all top guys there. But thats hat happens when you run from the best. He should come down to super bantam and fight Rigo. LSC is noting special, he will loose to Russel Jr, Valdez and perhaps even to Selby.

Yeah people don't realize how bad LSC is. They are Massively overrating him off the back of this like he's an all time great. Russell wouldn't lose a round against him. Naz Hamed would have blasted him into next week.

But I don't blame frampton for ducking rigondeaux. This is a guy who did nothing when he broke dickens jaw and had him running. He's never been smart enough to make himself a draw and I'd rather watch pain dry than watch a rigondeaux fight.

You've obviously only been watching the sport for a brief time and have no idea what you're talking about.

In terms of natural talent Russel Jr is a level above but he is also for me the biggest waste of talent in boxing. He simply just doesn't care about fighting at all.

Given the run of fights Frampton is on I think his legacy is doing just fine, yes he lost but it was an MD loss and a close fight. Not all of our fighters in the UK and Ireland are going to retire underfeated like Calzaghe. I'd far rather a Frampton who has had 3 fights on the bounce now against one of the best guys in the division as opposed to him winning a title and going years undefeated against a run of guys ranked 10-20 in the World.

Frampton is a legend and will have many more massive fights

Think you've got to be pretty damn decent to beat Frampton, LSC was switched on throughout and stuck to his plan all the way, he's a very good fighter

TheLeprechaun wrote:

TheCobra wrote:It was a good close fight between two world level operators. Boxing needs more of that and less record building, less store needs to be put on the 'unbeaten records' but unfortunately it seems to sell fights better to the casuals. It's like saying Froch's legacy suffered cos of his 2 defeats, it didn't because he was fighting the best rather than padding out a record.

How good is Santa Cruz though? I don't think he would beat Selby, or even Scott Quigg for that matter. The bookies would probably price quigg and Selby as slight favorites if those fights were made

Nope. He's a 3 weight world champion with better wins than Quigg+Selby, and I think he'd give them both absolute hell

arlovski wrote:

TheLeprechaun wrote:

TheCobra wrote:It was a good close fight between two world level operators. Boxing needs more of that and less record building, less store needs to be put on the 'unbeaten records' but unfortunately it seems to sell fights better to the casuals. It's like saying Froch's legacy suffered cos of his 2 defeats, it didn't because he was fighting the best rather than padding out a record.

How good is Santa Cruz though? I don't think he would beat Selby, or even Scott Quigg for that matter. The bookies would probably price quigg and Selby as slight favorites if those fights were made

Nope. He's a 3 weight world champion with better wins than Quigg+Selby, and I think he'd give them both absolute hell

Agreed. Must admit I never used to rate Santa Cruz highly at all, he's a lot better than I thought he was.

Santa Cruz is good but he's not a great fighter.

Frampton can continue a good little rivalry here. Maybe have another intense fight like the first one,

I worry however he's fighting in the wrong weight class.

Always figured after winning fighter of the year things wouldn't get any better for him.

Frampton lost to a three weight world champion in his backyard, by a total of 2 points.

His legacy has not taken a big hit. If anything, should he win the third fight it will cement his legacy further.

Autobarn wrote:Santa Cruz is good but he's not a great fighter.

This is it in a nutshell.

Sounds like I was in the minority but I thought Carl had potential to be a great. A great fighter should be beating someone like Santa Cruz every time. I don't think we would see a Lomachenko, Rigondeaux or Mikey Garcia struggling with LSC. I had Carl potentially on their level.

I was really disappointed. I guess most people felt that this was Carls level but I had him a level above. I was wrong on that.

His legacy is only tarnished in the sense that a great fighter, P4P material, would beat LSC every time so maybe we now realize Carl's limitations and that he's not going to be a truly outstanding champion.

That said, losing a very close fight away from home to an elite fighter doesn't diminish his reputation at all and if LSC does the decent thing and signs for the 3rd fight in Belfast I'd expect Carl to beat him.

It's easy to say with hindsight but maybe Carl was a little bit complacent and thought that having beaten him once he had his number. The noises coming out of his camp suggested they didn't believe LSC could do anything different this time around, perhaps they didn't prepare as diligently as they might have from a tactical standpoint.

CaptainSpacerod wrote:His legacy is only tarnished in the sense that a great fighter, P4P material, would beat LSC every time so maybe we now realize Carl's limitations and that he's not going to be a truly outstanding champion.

That said, losing a very close fight away from home to an elite fighter doesn't diminish his reputation at all and if LSC does the decent thing and signs for the 3rd fight in Belfast I'd expect Carl to beat him.

It's easy to say with hindsight but maybe Carl was a little bit complacent and thought that having beaten him once he had his number. The noises coming out of his camp suggested they didn't believe LSC could do anything different this time around, perhaps they didn't prepare as diligently as they might have from a tactical standpoint.

I don't see LSC signing for a third. Even though the cards were close, it was a fairly clear win. Why go to Belfast? Doesn't really make sense. He can pick up another belt in a Mares fight and that's a big money maker. He can also get Selby over and probably beat him too... although I'd make Selby a slight favourite.

davie wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:Total garbage to suggest Frampton's legacy took a big hit. Comments like that show why some fighters are more interested in building unbeaten records against nobodies than challenging themselves against the best available.

Nutshell! This is what bixing is all about. Someone's got to lose the fight. Legacy shouldn't come into it. If more fights like this were made the sport would be richer and more popular and more top guys would have more losses.

Bixing you say?

Honestly this iPhone comes up with some shite auto text

CaptainSpacerod wrote:His legacy is only tarnished in the sense that a great fighter, P4P material, would beat LSC every time so maybe we now realize Carl's limitations and that he's not going to be a truly outstanding champion.

That said, losing a very close fight away from home to an elite fighter doesn't diminish his reputation at all and if LSC does the decent thing and signs for the 3rd fight in Belfast I'd expect Carl to beat him.

It's easy to say with hindsight but maybe Carl was a little bit complacent and thought that having beaten him once he had his number. The noises coming out of his camp suggested they didn't believe LSC could do anything different this time around, perhaps they didn't prepare as diligently as they might have from a tactical standpoint.

Yeh fair points really. I always see Frampton as a 'young' fighter but he's 29 so I guess defeats like this really could be quite damaging overall as he's not got loads of years left to change things.

Why is Russel Jr getting hyped up all of a sudden? What exactly has he done? Fight a bum like Patrick Hyland once a year and lose to Lomachenko having his 3rd professional fight. He's nothing special. LSC and Frampton would beat him comfortably.

This rivalry is one of the reasons I love boxing.

Carl showed us a level he hadn't previously when he beat LSC first time around & LSC showed us smarts I hadn't seen from him before.

And more on that, Santa Cruz's dad is a fcking cool dude I think he's one of those dads, like Calzaghe, who just instinctively gets boxing in regards to his son. I know that sounds weird but it makes sense in my head.

Anyway, the 3rd fight will tell us plenty about both fighters legacy.

He will have a great career at lightweight as will Santa Cruz as long as they both stay clear from Oscar Valdez. A technician with Julian Jackson like power, I don't see anyone at this weight standing up to that kind of firepower and boxing skill.

sammy95 wrote:Frampton lost to a three weight world champion in his backyard, by a total of 2 points.

His legacy has not taken a big hit. If anything, should he win the third fight it will cement his legacy further.

Agree with this 100%

TheLeprechaun wrote:

TheCobra wrote:It was a good close fight between two world level operators. Boxing needs more of that and less record building, less store needs to be put on the 'unbeaten records' but unfortunately it seems to sell fights better to the casuals. It's like saying Froch's legacy suffered cos of his 2 defeats, it didn't because he was fighting the best rather than padding out a record.

How good is Santa Cruz though? I don't think he would beat Selby, or even Scott Quigg for that matter. The bookies would probably price quigg and Selby as slight favorites if those fights were made

I'm a massive Lee Selby fan but to say the bookies would have him and Quigg favourites if they were to fight is absolute nonsense trolling.

Thought Frampton's legacy probably got a boost. An overseas fighter prepared to go to the USA again and fight a world class opponent, who he had already beaten. Then to lose a razor this decision and act with absolute class...no damage done to carl. sign the contract for the rematch. should he lose the third I dont think there's any damage as long as the fight lives up to the level of the first two. Holyfield's legancy took no battering in his two losses to Bowe.
Quigg favourite against LSC - maybe if it's fought in the UK

Quigg in America refusing to throw punches for six rounds on Tesco Joes advice, would not beat Santa Cruz.

He lost a tight rematch against a bigger champion and a good fighter. I don't see how this tarnishes his legacy at all.