Wilfred Benitez vs Roberto Duran: 35 Years Later

[Counter-puncher]

I happen to think the Benitez who fought Palomino would have fought Duran closer than Leonard did first time around, with the usual caveat of if he did some training. I don't think he wins but I don't think he gets as psyched by Duran as Leonard was in the early rounds.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I happen to think the Benitez who fought Palomino would have fought Duran closer than Leonard did first time around, with the usual caveat of if he did some training. I don't think he wins but I don't think he gets as psyched by Duran as Leonard was in the early rounds.

Benitez might have been knocked out in the second round. I've never seen Leonard that hurt, if it wasn't the end of the round Duran may have stopped Ray.

[Counter-puncher]

IMO, Leonard got hit partly because he was so tense coming out and he was over-reacting and flinching every time Duran twitched his head at him, meant his balance was off and he was a bit ragged by his standards. I think Benitez would have been cooler IMO

[SaadOffTheDeck]

IMO, Leonard got hit partly because he was so tense coming out and he was over-reacting and flinching every time Duran twitched his head at him, meant his balance was off and he was a bit ragged by his standards. I think Benitez would have been cooler IMO

Perhaps, that was a crazy fast and powerful hookercut. That version of Duran would be virtually impossible to counter off the ropes against imo.

[Counter-puncher]

IMO, Leonard got hit partly because he was so tense coming out and he was over-reacting and flinching every time Duran twitched his head at him, meant his balance was off and he was a bit ragged by his standards. I think Benitez would have been cooler IMO

Perhaps, that was a crazy fast and powerful hookercut. That version of Duran would be virtually impossible to counter off the ropes against imo.

Oh he certainly wouldn't be countering off the ropes, he'd have one arm pinned to his side while Duran hit him with his free hand

[SaadOffTheDeck]

IMO, Leonard got hit partly because he was so tense coming out and he was over-reacting and flinching every time Duran twitched his head at him, meant his balance was off and he was a bit ragged by his standards. I think Benitez would have been cooler IMO

Perhaps, that was a crazy fast and powerful hookercut. That version of Duran would be virtually impossible to counter off the ropes against imo.

Oh he certainly wouldn't be countering off the ropes, he'd have one arm pinned to his side while Duran hit him with his free hand

As a Duran fan and Leonard hater I've always been amused that Ray fans go to the fought the wrong fight excuse instead of Padilla allowing Duran to molest him.

[elmersalsa]

Benitez beat Duran. End of story. Everybody loses at some point. Duran was at the time where not even his closest of friends believed in him after the No Mas fiasco. He went into hiding for months. He became an exile in boxing.
I don't think that Benitez beats Duran everytime they fight. Put them together at welterweight in Montreal and it would have been a different story. The 154lbs limit was not a good weight class for the Hands of Stone. It's understandable. And it showed. It's like Sugar Ray goes to 175lbs and fight guys like Michael Spinks, Eddie Gregory, Victor Galindez and Matthew Saad Muhammad. Would Sugar Ray beat those guys?

If that's not the case, then, why Duran looked so bad in his first 5 fights at 154lbs?: Luigi Minchillo, Nino Gonzalez, Kirkland Laing, Jimmy Batten and his third fight at that class with exceptional great Wilfred Benitez. None of those 5 fights indicated me that the weight class was right for him.

[Kalan]

He looked really good destroying Davey Moore... And Moore looked really good knocking out Wilfredo Benitez.

[elmersalsa]

I just saw the fight last night and the same Sugar Ray Leonard and Carlos Palomino were commentators for HBO that night. They both said by round 2 that Duran didn't had it. He was sluggish, slow, weak and somewhat uninterested. Like fighting through the motions. The other announcer Barry Tompkins was saying "You know what you had to do in the fight, you see it but your body is saying something else", something like that. Plus, no pep in Duran's punches. He couldn't hurt him at all. But Benitez hurt Duran a couple of times, though. Interesting.

I don't take away Benitez' great win. He was the better man at a higher weight class. A weight class that favored him better than Duran. He was even faster and stronger and more suited for the 154lbs class. Just like the great Thomas Hearns would be suited much better at 154lbs than the three of them: Leonard, Benitez and Duran.

[Ambling Alp II]

The weight class did not favor Benitez over Duran. your guy lost. Deal with it. Leonard missed most of what would have been his time 154. We don't know what would have happened with Hearns and Leonard at 154. If only Leonard and Hearns had fought in weights below and above 154 to give us a rough idea. Easy to say the guy you hate would lose in a situation that never happened. Again with the would have and could haves.

[elmersalsa]

The weight class did not favor Benitez over Duran. your guy lost. Deal with it. Leonard missed most of what would have been his time 154. We don't know what would have happened with Hearns and Leonard at 154. If only Leonard and Hearns had fought in weights below and above 154 to give us a rough idea. Easy to say the guy you hate would lose in a situation that never happened. Again with the would have and could haves.

The 154lbs class favored Benitez big time. If you can't see it, fine! It doesn't matter to me what you think. Everyone has to lose some point. Especially, if you're 20 pounds above your natural weight class.

Some people want to dismiss the facts. But, I have never seen no one like Duran. He used to go to your own weight class and kick your ass WITHOUT STIPULATIONS like some fighters I know (Sugar Ray Leonard).

And keep thinking that Leonard would have survived against The Hitman at 154lbs, ok? The one that beat Kevin Howard beats Tommy. Something told him not to go that route.

As of Benitez vs Duran, many people believe just because The Radar won that fight at 154lbs, it would have been the same at 140 or 147lbs everytime. Everytime? We got to see the circumstances surrounding the fights.

[Ambling Alp II]

Why did the 154 class favor Benitez "big time"? As usually all you do is look at Duran moving up and don't look at Benitez.
If Duran could go to your weight class and kick you butt then it shouldn't matter anyway should it.

Here are some facts that do always ignore:
Benitez beat Duran.
Duran was losing to Leonad and quit.
Leonard beat Hagler at 160
Leoanrd beat Hearns at 147. Hearns could not destroy him at an Super middleweight.

[elmersalsa]

Why did the 154 class favor Benitez "big time"? As usually all you do is look at Duran moving up and don't look at Benitez.
If Duran could go to your weight class and kick you butt then it shouldn't matter anyway should it.

Here are some facts that do always ignore:
Benitez beat Duran.
Duran was losing to Leonad and quit.
Leonard beat Hagler at 160
Leoanrd beat Hearns at 147. Hearns could not destroy him at an Super middleweight.

You couldn't see it, or you just want to be blind? You couldn't see that the weight class favored Wilfred over Duran?
Do you really believe that Duran was any good at 154lbs?
Didn't you see that Duran in his first 5 fights at 154lbs he lacked the speed and mobility as he did at lightweight and welterweight?
Do you really believe that Benitez always beats Duran at any weight?

Why you ignore the fact that The Hitman would be all wrong for Leonard in higher weight classes? Didn't you see the rematch? A washed up Hearns almost knocks him out!

Why you ignore the fact that it was a FADING MARVELOUS?

Does Sugar Ray beats Matthew Saad Muhammad, Victor Galindez or even a Dwight Braxton at 175lbs?

Answer me.

[Kalan]

Here's some facts people like you always ignore...

Leonard gave up the Middleweight Title (like Canelo also did) that he won from Hagler.. Ray didn't want to fight Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum.

Then Leonard looked for a new title.. He won a bogus Super Middleweight Title by making Light Heavyweight Donny Lalonde boil down 7 pounds to 168 and meet him for a "vacant" SM title.. Unlike Andre Ward, who did the same thing to Chad Dawson -- and James Toney who beat Iran Barkley at 168 after Barkley beat Tommy Hearns for the Light Heavyweight Title -- Leonard was allowed to claim 2 Title Fight victories in 1 night and they weren't.. SRL had a lot of pull.

Leonard was also allowed to defend his 168 pound strap at 160 -- against whoever he chose to fight... When pressure mounted for Leonard to fight a top Middleweight he began eyeing Terry Norris at 154... He knew Julian Jackson blasted Norris out and thought he could get hold of Terry's chin.

But SRL was always thinking and maneuvering... He was a good businessman like George Foreman.

[Kalan]

That last post was directed to the Ambler

[elmersalsa]

Here's some facts people like you always ignore...

Leonard gave up the Middleweight Title (like Canelo also did) that he won from Hagler.. Ray didn't want to fight Michael Nunn or Mike McCallum.

Then Leonard looked for a new title.. He won a bogus Super Middleweight Title by making Light Heavyweight Donny Lalonde boil down 7 pounds to 168 and meet him for a "vacant" SM title.. Unlike Andre Ward, who did the same thing to Chad Dawson -- and James Toney who beat Iran Barkley at 168 after Barkley beat Tommy Hearns for the Light Heavyweight Title -- Leonard was allowed to claim 2 Title Fight victories in 1 night and they weren't.. SRL had a lot of pull.

Leonard was also allowed to defend his 168 pound strap at 160 -- against whoever he chose to fight... When pressure mounted for Leonard to fight a top Middleweight he began eyeing Terry Norris at 154... He knew Julian Jackson blasted Norris out and thought he could get hold of Terry's chin.

But SRL was always thinking and maneuvering... He was a good businessman like George Foreman.

I love Sugar Ray Leonard. The one before 1982. After 1982, that wasn't the real Leonard if you ask me. But, some folks believe that if he goes to 175lbs, he also beats Matthew Saad Muhammad or a Yaqui Lopez. That is more than 20 pounds!

Well, what do you expect of Duran at 154lbs? To succeed as good against top notch boxers and win? This ain't no lightweight class. These are bigger men. If that is not the case, then Sugar Ray Robinson should have beaten Joey Maxim or the great Archie Moore at 175lbs. Why he didn't beat Maxim?

The Hitman above welterweight CLEARLY BEAT Leonard, Duran and Benitez, convincingly. Some judges got paid on the Leonard rematch, that's all.

[Ambling Alp II]

No you don't love Sugar Ray. you even once said that he wasn't a real fighter. You don't say that about someone that you love. you are acting like a phony.

I would expect Duran to be great at 154. He had plenty of time to grow into the weight. It was 19 pounds over several years. Plenty of other fighters have done that.
There is much less difference going from a light weight to a jr middle than a welterweight to light heavy. Duran had also fought at jr middle before he lost to Benitez. Robinson had not fought anyone near the size of Maxim before. Not the same thing at all.
Benitez was jr welter champ himself. That's only 5 more pounds than a lightweight.

Was the referee who counted the bogus knockdown for Hearns against Leonard in their second fight getting paid off?

Naturally you are going to ignore these points and fopcus on your would haves and could haves that always favor your guy. .

[elmersalsa]

No you don't love Sugar Ray. you even once said that he wasn't a real fighter. You don't say that about someone that you love. you are acting like a phony.

I would expect Duran to be great at 154. He had plenty of time to grow into the weight. It was 19 pounds over several years. Plenty of other fighters have done that.
There is much less difference going from a light weight to a jr middle than a welterweight to light heavy. Duran had also fought at jr middle before he lost to Benitez. Robinson had not fought anyone near the size of Maxim before. Not the same thing at all.
Benitez was jr welter champ himself. That's only 5 more pounds than a lightweight.

Was the referee who counted the bogus knockdown for Hearns against Leonard in their second fight getting paid off?

Naturally you are going to ignore these points and fopcus on your would haves and could haves that always favor your guy. .

I am just stating the facts. The Hitman clearly beat Leonard. That was above 154lbs. The weight class clearly favored Hearns against Duran, Benitez and Leonard. You couldn't see that?

Leonard and Hearns II a draw? My ass!

[Seamus]

Without Hearn's excessive holding in the 12th rd of the second fight, Leonard probably scores a TKO.

[elmersalsa]

Without Hearn's excessive holding in the 12th rd of the second fight, Leonard probably scores a TKO.

And the judges sold out on Ray, right? What a raw deal The Hitman got. What a deal!

[Ambling Alp II]

If the referee would not have counted the bogus knockdown in the third round, Leonard would have won the decision. Had the referee penalized Hearns for the rabbit punch and shove, Leonard would have won a unanimous decision. It was Leonard who got hooked by the officials.

[elmersalsa]

If the referee would not have counted the bogus knockdown in the third round, Leonard would have won the decision. Had the referee penalized Hearns for the rabbit punch and shove, Leonard would have won a unanimous decision. It was Leonard who got hooked by the officials.

Get outta here! The Hitman dropped him twice. Two legitimate knockdowns. That showed me that the weight class favored Tommy over Sugar Ray.

As a Leonard fan, Hearns won convincingly, Alp. Hearns was supposed to be shot. Imagine a prime Hearns? The weight favored Hearns.

[Ambling Alp II]

Really? you are seriously saying that the first knockdown was legitimate?

Then answer these two questions regarding the first knockdown:
1. Did the punch hit Leonard in the back of the head or not?
2. Did Hearns push or shove Leonard?

You may want to watch it again.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

at Leonard got hosed. Doesn't get dumber than that.

[Ambling Alp II]

I will ask you straight out as well.

Ragarding the first knockdown:
1. Did the punch hit Leonard in the back of the head or not?
2. Did Hearns push or shove Leonard?

Simple yes/no questions. Looking for an honest answer.