BoxRec

These guys, to me, are not top 100 ATG pound per pound fighters:
Lennox Lewis
Oscar De La Hoya
Erik Morales
Felix "Tito" Trinidad
Shane Mosley
James Toney
Floyd Patterson
Antonio Cervantes
Joey Giardello
Rocky Graziano
Lou Ambers
Lew Jenkins
Bob Montgomery

How about you actually post your Top 100 elmer?

elmersalsa wrote:These guys, to me, are not top 100 ATG pound per pound fighters:
Lennox Lewis
Oscar De La Hoya
Erik Morales
Felix "Tito" Trinidad
Shane Mosley
James Toney
Floyd Patterson
Antonio Cervantes
Joey Giardello
Rocky Graziano
Lou Ambers
Lew Jenkins
Bob Montgomery

You're making no sense with that list of rejects... Toney and Lewis are WAY the Hell up there in the top 25 all time... Even Patterson would make a list as long as 100... Floyd was a damned good boxer, and the first 2-time Heavyweight Champion... But Graziano and Montgomery??? I don't know what swingers like that would have to do with a list of top 100 fighters. Top 1000 possibly. Any list of top 100 would be crammed with great fighters.

Joey Giardello was a clever boxer -- but such a light hitter he obviously wouldn't make a list of top 100. He did knock down Sugar Ray Robinson. Joey was also one of the 5 straight guys who boxed the piss out of Ralph Jones -- just before Jones completely dominated the great Robinson.

Kalan wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:These guys, to me, are not top 100 ATG pound per pound fighters:
Lennox Lewis
Oscar De La Hoya
Erik Morales
Felix "Tito" Trinidad
Shane Mosley
James Toney
Floyd Patterson
Antonio Cervantes
Joey Giardello
Rocky Graziano
Lou Ambers
Lew Jenkins
Bob Montgomery

You're making no sense with that list of rejects... Toney and Lewis are WAY the Hell up there in the top 25 all time... Even Patterson would make a list as long as 100... Floyd was a damned good boxer, and the first 2-time Heavyweight Champion... But Graziano and Montgomery??? I don't know what swingers like that would have to do with a list of top 100 fighters. Top 1000 possibly. Any list of top 100 would be crammed with great fighters.

Joey Giardello was a clever boxer -- but such a light hitter he obviously wouldn't make a list of top 100. He did knock down Sugar Ray Robinson. Joey was also one of the 5 straight guys who boxed the piss out of Ralph Jones -- just before Jones completely dominated the great Robinson.

Top 25 all time? No way, Jose! Lennox Lewis was whacked and stopped cold by two bums. He didn't beat nobody great that was in his absolute prime. His opponents in his prime years weren't all that.

James Toney got schooled by Super Roy. Was not a consistent winner in his prime. He won a piece of the heavyweight crown only to be found that he took steroids for the fight. I consider him more borderline in the top 100 ATG pound per pound than Lewis, though.

No Morales is criminal, unless you don't rate Barrera either. Erik was arguably the greatest Mexican ever.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No Morales is criminal, unless you don't rate Barrera either. Erik was arguably the greatest Mexican ever.

No way. But, I consider Erik Morales way better than Lennox Lewis. He at least have a case in the top 100. Lots of credentials. But as for him being the best Mexican boxer ever, I don't see it.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No Morales is criminal, unless you don't rate Barrera either. Erik was arguably the greatest Mexican ever.

No way. But, I consider Erik Morales way better than Lennox Lewis. He at least have a case in the top 100. Lots of credentials. But as for him being the best Mexican boxer ever, I don't see it.

Really? He's not in your top 100 and you don't think he's the greatest Mexican? Thanks for clearing up the confusion.

elmersalsa wrote:

Kalan wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:These guys, to me, are not top 100 ATG pound per pound fighters:
Lennox Lewis
Oscar De La Hoya
Erik Morales
Felix "Tito" Trinidad
Shane Mosley
James Toney
Floyd Patterson
Antonio Cervantes
Joey Giardello
Rocky Graziano
Lou Ambers
Lew Jenkins
Bob Montgomery

You're making no sense with that list of rejects... Toney and Lewis are WAY the Hell up there in the top 25 all time... Even Patterson would make a list as long as 100... Floyd was a damned good boxer, and the first 2-time Heavyweight Champion... But Graziano and Montgomery??? I don't know what swingers like that would have to do with a list of top 100 fighters. Top 1000 possibly. Any list of top 100 would be crammed with great fighters.

Joey Giardello was a clever boxer -- but such a light hitter he obviously wouldn't make a list of top 100. He did knock down Sugar Ray Robinson. Joey was also one of the 5 straight guys who boxed the piss out of Ralph Jones -- just before Jones completely dominated the great Robinson.

Top 25 all time? No way, Jose! Lennox Lewis was whacked and stopped cold by two bums. He didn't beat nobody great that was in his absolute prime. His opponents in his prime years weren't all that.

James Toney got schooled by Super Roy. Was not a consistent winner in his prime. He won a piece of the heavyweight crown only to be found that he took steroids for the fight. I consider him more borderline in the top 100 ATG pound per pound than Lewis, though.

The guys who stopped Lewis weren't bums... He beat Tyson and Holyfield although they ducked him for over 10 years. Lewis wanted to fight them the whole time. They didn't want to fight him. Bowe threw his belt in the trash rather than defend against mandatory challenger Lewis.

Toney is the only Middleweight Champion to win the Cruiserweight Title. And he beat the Lineal Light Heavyweight Champion when he knocked out Iran Barkley, so he were allowed to do it like Ray Leonard, he would have won both the 168 and 175-pound Divisional Titles in one night, and so would've Andre Ward. It's what you accomplished -- not the fact that you lost a few. He didn't get knocked stiff like "Super Roy."

Kalan wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Kalan wrote:
You're making no sense with that list of rejects... Toney and Lewis are WAY the Hell up there in the top 25 all time... Even Patterson would make a list as long as 100... Floyd was a damned good boxer, and the first 2-time Heavyweight Champion... But Graziano and Montgomery??? I don't know what swingers like that would have to do with a list of top 100 fighters. Top 1000 possibly. Any list of top 100 would be crammed with great fighters.

Joey Giardello was a clever boxer -- but such a light hitter he obviously wouldn't make a list of top 100. He did knock down Sugar Ray Robinson. Joey was also one of the 5 straight guys who boxed the piss out of Ralph Jones -- just before Jones completely dominated the great Robinson.

Top 25 all time? No way, Jose! Lennox Lewis was whacked and stopped cold by two bums. He didn't beat nobody great that was in his absolute prime. His opponents in his prime years weren't all that.

James Toney got schooled by Super Roy. Was not a consistent winner in his prime. He won a piece of the heavyweight crown only to be found that he took steroids for the fight. I consider him more borderline in the top 100 ATG pound per pound than Lewis, though.

The guys who stopped Lewis weren't bums... He beat Tyson and Holyfield although they ducked him for over 10 years. Lewis wanted to fight them the whole time. They didn't want to fight him. Bowe threw his belt in the trash rather than defend against mandatory challenger Lewis.

Toney is the only Middleweight Champion to win the Cruiserweight Title. And he beat the Lineal Light Heavyweight Champion when he knocked out Iran Barkley, so he were allowed to do it like Ray Leonard, he would have won both the 168 and 175-pound Divisional Titles in one night, and so would've Andre Ward. It's what you accomplished -- not the fact that you lost a few. He didn't get knocked stiff like "Super Roy."

At least, James Toney has a case in the top 100 ATG best. He convinced me more than Lennox Lewis. I don't see nothing extraordinary in Lewis' record nor boxing ability to suggest that he is a top 100 ATG pound per pound fighter. HE LOST TO TWO BUMS IN MY VIEW. Guys that would have never beat great boxers like Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes or Joe Frazier. Can you imagine Tyson, Foreman, Ali, Holmes or Frazier IN THEIR PRIMES losing to Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman? It's unconceivable for me to think that.

elmersalsa wrote: I don't see nothing extraordinary in Lewis' record nor boxing ability to suggest that he is a top 100 ATG pound per pound fighter. HE LOST TO TWO BUMS IN MY VIEW. Guys that would have never beat great boxers like Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes or Joe Frazier. Can you imagine Tyson, Foreman, Ali, Holmes or Frazier IN THEIR PRIMES losing to Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman? It's unconceivable for me to think that.

You're totally prejudiced... Lewis is older than Tyson but out-boxed him by 10,000,000 miles and flattened him for 10.. Does that mean nothing??? Tyson won his next fight versus Etienne by 1st round KO and looked fast and fit as a fiddle.. Anybody Rahman hit with that lottery shot he would have knocked out.. That was the type of accident that proved ANYTHING can happen in Boxing.. Likewise, if Oliver McCall caught Tyson, Foreman, Ali, Frazier, or anyone else with the Atomic Bull right hand shot -- they would have been knocked TFO right there.. I don't like Lewis as a person or as a fighter.. He was a dirty fouling bastard in a few of his fights. But I have to admit he was fearless... had a massive will to win... and tremendous size, height, reach, strength, and punching power... He was a superior combined boxer and puncher to any earlier Heavyweight Champions with the possible exceptions of Larry Holmes and a prime Jack Johnson.

Kalan wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: I don't see nothing extraordinary in Lewis' record nor boxing ability to suggest that he is a top 100 ATG pound per pound fighter. HE LOST TO TWO BUMS IN MY VIEW. Guys that would have never beat great boxers like Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes or Joe Frazier. Can you imagine Tyson, Foreman, Ali, Holmes or Frazier IN THEIR PRIMES losing to Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman? It's unconceivable for me to think that.

You're totally prejudiced... Lewis is older than Tyson but out-boxed him by 10,000,000 miles and flattened him for 10.. Does that mean nothing??? Tyson won his next fight versus Etienne by 1st round KO and looked fast and fit as a fiddle.. Anybody Rahman hit with that lottery shot he would have knocked out.. That was the type of accident that proved ANYTHING can happen in Boxing.. Likewise, if Oliver McCall caught Tyson, Foreman, Ali, Frazier, or anyone else with the Atomic Bull right hand shot -- they would have been knocked TFO right there.. I don't like Lewis as a person or as a fighter.. He was a dirty fouling bastard in a few of his fights. But I have to admit he was fearless... had a massive will to win... and tremendous size, height, reach, strength, and punching power... He was a superior combined boxer and puncher to any earlier Heavyweight Champions with the possible exceptions of Larry Holmes and a prime Jack Johnson.

GTFOH with that! Lennox Lewis caught a washed up Iron Mike. You are talking like if Tyson was in his prime or something. Tyson WAS THROUGH after he lost twice to the great Evander Holyfield. His prime was over after 1991. And even if Lewis vs Tyson happened in post jailed Tyson in 1995, I don't see Lewis winning. Tyson would have never lost to a bum like Oliver McCall in 1995 and never more less in his prime 80s reign. Hasim Rahman would have been blown out from the opening bell.

I respect Lewis as a person and I like his fighting attitude. He came prepared and respected the sport of boxing. But as for me, I can't picture him in his best day beating a Muhammad Ali, a Larry Holmes a Holyfield or a Tyson or any great heavyweight champion after the great Sonny Liston.

a younger Holyfield might have beaten Lewis to say nothing of fighters from other eras

Had Lewis stayed retired after 1948 he would also hold the distinction of having beaten every man he ever faced, Lewis rates behind him because he accomplished less in his career-less wins over top contenders, less consistency, fewer title defenses, etc.

golden oldie wrote:
Do you know when you go on a hatred driven rant against a fighter it helps if you get the correct spelling in the correct context?

I believe the word you were looking for was INCONCEIVABLE, not unconceivable.

If you understood what he meant you didn't need to publicly correct him.

Can we imagine, a prime Iron Mike losing to Oliver McCall or Hasim Rahman?

Can we imagine a prime Real Deal losing to those two bums?

Greats like Larry Holmes? Muhammad Ali? Joe Frazier? George Foreman? Sonny Liston? Even lesser ones like Ken Norton?

And the inconceivable thing by knockout?

Close your eyes and see if you see something like that happening to those heavyweight greats?

I closed my eyes to think about it. The more I meditate about it, the more INCONCEIVABLE is for me to happen.

They weren't anything near bums. Stupid, stupid, disrespectful crap.rock had a lot of natural talent and was tougher than Tyson could dream of being. A guy survives a brutal accident, never puts on a glove until later in life and ends up heavyweight champion? Bum? fornicate you.

The McCall loss might not be so bad the Rahman defeat is pretty awful. Rahman couldn't beat Oleg Maskaev in two tries and lost to John Ruiz.

He beat the mighty Sanders and got robbed twice against tua and toney. Not a world beater, but Rahman gets more shit than he deserves while people trump up the far inferior record of a guy like vitali.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:They weren't anything near bums. Stupid, stupid, disrespectful crap.rock had a lot of natural talent and was tougher than Tyson could dream of being. A guy survives a brutal accident, never puts on a glove until later in life and ends up heavyweight champion? Bum? eff you.

He is a bum!

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:They weren't anything near bums. Stupid, stupid, disrespectful crap.rock had a lot of natural talent and was tougher than Tyson could dream of being. A guy survives a brutal accident, never puts on a glove until later in life and ends up heavyweight champion? Bum? eff you.

He is a bum!

You're a retard.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:They weren't anything near bums. Stupid, stupid, disrespectful crap.rock had a lot of natural talent and was tougher than Tyson could dream of being. A guy survives a brutal accident, never puts on a glove until later in life and ends up heavyweight champion? Bum? eff you.

He is a bum!

You're a retard.

Just like you. Thanks.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: He is a bum!

You're a retard.

Just like you. Thanks.

You're welcome, retard. You could only dream of being like me.

For starters Vitali didn't lose to guys like Ruiz and Maskaev (2X). I don't think many people would pick these guys to beat Vitali. Consistency is a reason Vitali is rated over guys like Rahman.

The Maskaev losses are especially devastating, guys like Kirk Johnson and Lance Whittaker were able to beat Maskaev. As far as being robbed against Toney, I don't think that is enough to make up for all his losses.

Cojimar 1946 wrote:For starters Vitali didn't lose to guys like Ruiz and Maskaev (2X). I don't think many people would pick these guys to beat Vitali. Consistency is a reason Vitali is rated over guys like Rahman.

Vitali never beat guys like Ruiz. Peter did beat Oleg so ok.