BoxRec

crusader wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

crusader wrote:If you think Haye was a superior win to those you're simplemindedly looking at his name without giving proper weight to context. Sure, most thought Bellew would get stopped early, and credit to him for taking the shots better than expected, but he was still well down and losing ground when Haye became a one-legged, sitting duck who loads of fighters would beat. Coming through against Haye when the latter was so limited by the injury greatly reduces the difficulty involved in accomplishing what Bellew did, and hence to me the impressiveness of the win.

Guys like Takam and Jennings have at least beaten contenders in the last 3 years (e.g. Szpilka, Perez, Thompson), which can't be said of Haye. I also think the Chisora of today would beat the Haye who fought on Saturday.

This is why Bellew won the fight; until this point he was hardly doing anything, and the fight was turning even more in Haye's favour:

Yeah but you could apply the same principle to almost any fight if you wanted to. Injury, grabbing tactics, avoiding the fight, lucky punch etc.

I'm not saying that Bellew still wins the fight if the injury doesn't happen, cause I don't think that's the case, but you have to appreciate that these things do happen in boxing. I don't really know if the injury was as a result of Haye just being injury prone, a lack of concentrated training, or just freak luck. But a part of me is saying that David Haye was not taking the preparation of this fight very seriously. It's saying to me that Haye thought this was going to be one of his biggest, easiest pay days. It's saying to me that he had one eye on other prizes.

One final point, I'm pretty gobsmacked that Haye hasn't really mentioned the injury once, and instead opted to say that 'the best man won on the night'.

Haye could've broken both his legs a few seconds after the opening bell, prior to any shots landing, and Bellew would've won in that scenario too. Hey, luck is part of boxing! Injuries happen! Bellew just beat who was in front of him and the nature of the fight is irrelevant to how highly the win ranks! Funny thing is that, even with Haye on one leg and stumbling around when not against the ropes, Bellew still needed several rounds to stop him, never seemed to hurt him, and even began to gas.

Without context, a stoppage of David Haye seems like an very nice win, but if you look at what ACTUALLY happened it wasn't impressive at all, and in my view it's laughable to act as if that is clearly the best win any fighter in the top 20 has.

Kalan wrote:This is on a par with Billy Backus beating Jose Napoles -- and Chris Byrd beating Vitali Klitschko...

Ken Norton beating Muhammad Ali was real... HE broke Ali's jaw... It's different if you have an injury that started in training camp that you're trying to manage

In the know 85 wrote:Are you serious?? Aj would kill haye and bellew, AJ is far from great but breazeale, and whyte would smash bellew so his cv can't be better, bellew only chased haye so he wouldn't have to fight BRIEDIS next and lose badly!

Rob3_142 wrote:

In the know 85 wrote:Are you serious?? Aj would kill haye and bellew, AJ is far from great but breazeale, and whyte would smash bellew so his cv can't be better, bellew only chased haye so he wouldn't have to fight BRIEDIS next and lose badly!

Well look at it this way, when Bellew gets to the end of his career, which is probably 2-3 fights away, the W in his record against Haye will do a lot more for his legacy than any win against Breidis. Then throw in the massive financial gains which he achieved against Haye, who on earth would ever blame him? Let us not forget, 99% of boxing fans were convinced that Haye was going to smash Bellew inside 3 rounds.

Whatever happens now or in the future, Bellew has already won.

In the know 85 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

In the know 85 wrote:Are you serious?? Aj would kill haye and bellew, AJ is far from great but breazeale, and whyte would smash bellew so his cv can't be better, bellew only chased haye so he wouldn't have to fight BRIEDIS next and lose badly!

Well look at it this way, when Bellew gets to the end of his career, which is probably 2-3 fights away, the W in his record against Haye will do a lot more for his legacy than any win against Breidis. Then throw in the massive financial gains which he achieved against Haye, who on earth would ever blame him? Let us not forget, 99% of boxing fans were convinced that Haye was going to smash Bellew inside 3 rounds.

Whatever happens now or in the future, Bellew has already won.

Agreed, but this was no prime David haye by any means, I think a win against a very strong tricky briedis would do much more for bellew's record than a win against an old injured haye regardless of what the majority thought. It's only Hayes behaviour from the offset that people thought this plus the two complete nobodies haye destroyed prior to this bout, I think briedis would have beaten the same haye in maybe 5 or 6 rounds, bellew is the cruiser champ and will never be the hw champ, but it's not a good look on any record to not defend a title at least once, briedis should be next after he smashes huck.

Rob3_142 wrote:

In the know 85 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
Well look at it this way, when Bellew gets to the end of his career, which is probably 2-3 fights away, the W in his record against Haye will do a lot more for his legacy than any win against Breidis. Then throw in the massive financial gains which he achieved against Haye, who on earth would ever blame him? Let us not forget, 99% of boxing fans were convinced that Haye was going to smash Bellew inside 3 rounds.

Whatever happens now or in the future, Bellew has already won.

Agreed, but this was no prime David haye by any means, I think a win against a very strong tricky briedis would do much more for bellew's record than a win against an old injured haye regardless of what the majority thought. It's only Hayes behaviour from the offset that people thought this plus the two complete nobodies haye destroyed prior to this bout, I think briedis would have beaten the same haye in maybe 5 or 6 rounds, bellew is the cruiser champ and will never be the hw champ, but it's not a good look on any record to not defend a title at least once, briedis should be next after he smashes huck.

Well Bellew has defended the title against BJ Flores, but admittedly not a great title fight. But let's be honest here, nobody was saying that Haye was old, past it or injured before they teed off. I personally believe that Haye is one of the games biggest underachievers, and has spent the majority of his time inactive or injured. But then nobody cares what I think, and the win over Haye who took Klitschko the distance, and was the WBA World Heavyweight champion, is the mark on his record which he'll be best known for. He can still fight Breidis, but if he decided to fight Haye in a rematch instead, then I don't think he'd receive a great deal of criticism.

In the know 85 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:

In the know 85 wrote:
Agreed, but this was no prime David haye by any means, I think a win against a very strong tricky briedis would do much more for bellew's record than a win against an old injured haye regardless of what the majority thought. It's only Hayes behaviour from the offset that people thought this plus the two complete nobodies haye destroyed prior to this bout, I think briedis would have beaten the same haye in maybe 5 or 6 rounds, bellew is the cruiser champ and will never be the hw champ, but it's not a good look on any record to not defend a title at least once, briedis should be next after he smashes huck.

Well Bellew has defended the title against BJ Flores, but admittedly not a great title fight. But let's be honest here, nobody was saying that Haye was old, past it or injured before they teed off. I personally believe that Haye is one of the games biggest underachievers, and has spent the majority of his time inactive or injured. But then nobody cares what I think, and the win over Haye who took Klitschko the distance, and was the WBA World Heavyweight champion, is the mark on his record which he'll be best known for. He can still fight Breidis, but if he decided to fight Haye in a rematch instead, then I don't think he'd receive a great deal of criticism.

Avoiding mandatory fights is one thing, but avoiding great mandatory fights is another all together, it's either fight BRIEDIS or vacate the belt imo, I think it's an absolute liberty to hold a belt and not fight for it. It's bad for boxing full stop.

Rob3_142 wrote:

In the know 85 wrote:

Rob3_142 wrote:
Well Bellew has defended the title against BJ Flores, but admittedly not a great title fight. But let's be honest here, nobody was saying that Haye was old, past it or injured before they teed off. I personally believe that Haye is one of the games biggest underachievers, and has spent the majority of his time inactive or injured. But then nobody cares what I think, and the win over Haye who took Klitschko the distance, and was the WBA World Heavyweight champion, is the mark on his record which he'll be best known for. He can still fight Breidis, but if he decided to fight Haye in a rematch instead, then I don't think he'd receive a great deal of criticism.

Avoiding mandatory fights is one thing, but avoiding great mandatory fights is another all together, it's either fight BRIEDIS or vacate the belt imo, I think it's an absolute liberty to hold a belt and not fight for it. It's bad for boxing full stop.

He won't have to vacate, he'll be stripped. He already got special dispensation to fight at heavyweight, but don't think they'd let him do it again. Bellew said he loved that belt, but shake a few pound notes in someone's face and they'll soon change their mind.