BoxRec

crow wrote:Sanchez evaded the question.

I actually concur Brook's uppercut shook Gennady down to his boots, and it's perfectly plausible it made him more cautious vs Jacobs.

It actually reminds me of the Hagler vs Hearns war, where Hearns clearly hurt Marvin a few times before being bombed out himself, and the subsequent damage inflcted by Mugabi.

By the time Leonard came, Hagler's chin was still sturdy but wasn't diamant anymore like in the past; Leonard landed some bombs on him and he was shook even though he didn't show it, and it made him more cautious in letting his own punches go.

I think Golovkin evidently showed some apprehension at getting hit by Jacobs, and it lasted the whole bout.

When did Leonard hurt Hagler?

I don't recall that all.

He ate up punches from Hearns & Mugabi, although he did admit that Hearns stunned him briefly.

The reason why Marvin took so much punishment in his last couple of fights before Leonard was because he had lost all of his speed, but there was no apprehension in him.

He took the fight to Hearns & dared the Hitman to go to war with him; he did the same with Mugabi & he tried to do the same with Leonard, but Sugar would not be so daft having witnessed what happened to the last 2 guys to go to war with the Marvellous one.

crow wrote:Sanchez evaded the question.

I actually concur Brook's uppercut shook Gennady down to his boots, and it's perfectly plausible it made him more cautious vs Jacobs.

It actually reminds me of the Hagler vs Hearns war, where Hearns clearly hurt Marvin a few times before being bombed out himself, and the subsequent damage inflcted by Mugabi.

By the time Leonard came, Hagler's chin was still sturdy but wasn't diamant anymore like in the past; Leonard landed some bombs on him and he was shook even though he didn't show it, and it made him more cautious in letting his own punches go.

I think Golovkin evidently showed some apprehension at getting hit by Jacobs, and it lasted the whole bout.

i really don't think Brook ever even came close to hurting GGG, the uppercut from what I can remember landed square in the middle of GGGs face and essentially "lifted" GGGs head up, it looked good but didn't have an effect

GGG walked through Brook's shots. There was no indication to me that he was hurt by anything Brook landed...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

crow wrote:So why do you think Hagler chose to retire at only 32 then?
That's an awfull young age to retire for a middle.

He retired because he realized he was starting to eat punches and was getting hurt in the ring more and more.

He was livid about the decision and the inability to get a rematch. His prime was before he ever won the title. At least you have a view shared by nobody on earth. Well done.

Didn't he finish with like 60+ fights?

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

crow wrote:So why do you think Hagler chose to retire at only 32 then?
That's an awfull young age to retire for a middle.

He retired because he realized he was starting to eat punches and was getting hurt in the ring more and more.

He was livid about the decision and the inability to get a rematch. His prime was before he ever won the title. At least you have a view shared by nobody on earth. Well done.

Didn't he finish with like 60+ fights?

All the great middles fought until their mid thirties at least
Monzon (99 fights), Robinson (198 fights), Hopkins, Zale (87 fights), Giardello (132 fights), Mickey Walker, Golovkin, Greb (dead at 32 on the operating table; never retired)

Many had over 100 bouts.

So again, why did Marvin retire so soon?

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

crow wrote:So why do you think Hagler chose to retire at only 32 then?
That's an awfull young age to retire for a middle.

He retired because he realized he was starting to eat punches and was getting hurt in the ring more and more.

He was livid about the decision and the inability to get a rematch. His prime was before he ever won the title. At least you have a view shared by nobody on earth. Well done.

Didn't he finish with like 60+ fights?

Sure did, never hurt in one of them.

crow wrote:So why do you think Hagler chose to retire at only 32 then?
That's an awfull young age to retire for a middle.

He retired because he realized he was starting to eat punches and was getting hurt in the ring more and more.

I think the fact that he was an intelligent guy who had made good money and was aware that eating punches full stop, is not good for your health in the long run, played a part.

I could be mistaken but I believe he's made good investments and lives a happy and comfortable life in Italy now.

caldo2025 wrote:Spence even made reference to how many times Brook and his team have brought up GGG during the most recent press stop in England to promote the fight. I've never seen a guy brag more about a fight he didn't even get to the halfway point in. It's pretty pathetic. Brook needs to focus on Spence because this fight could make him look pretty silly if he doesn't get himself locked in.

I've watched that press conference in full. For the first 20 minutes prior to it kicking off, brook or his coach had responded to 3 questions from Adam smith (sky) or Eddie Hearn (matchroom) about GGG. It was pretty relevant stuff generally, about weight, injury and bouncing back after losing his 0. The first person to mention ggg out of either side (coaches and boxers) was Spences coach derrick James, really early before ingle or brook had even spoken.

This whole thing about going on about ggg is sensationalised crap. Psychological warfare to get under each other's skin, gain an edge. Anyone who sees it as anything further is looking for things that aren't there.

The reality is brook and his team are winners, and will draw whatever positives they can from a career defeat to improve and move on. If people don't understand that they don't get competitive sport

crow wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: He was livid about the decision and the inability to get a rematch. His prime was before he ever won the title. At least you have a view shared by nobody on earth. Well done.

Didn't he finish with like 60+ fights?

All the great middles fought until their mid thirties at least
Monzon (99 fights), Robinson (198 fights), Hopkins, Zale (87 fights), Giardello (132 fights), Mickey Walker, Golovkin, Greb (dead at 32 on the operating table; never retired)

Many had over 100 bouts.

So again, why did Marvin retire so soon?

Have you heard Hagler's line about silk pyjamas in getting up in the morning to run?

Marvin had lost his hunger & was only motivated by paydays.

The only person who could give him a decent payday & after a close first fight, Leonard messed him about & he became disillusioned & quit.

..Brook has never presented any serious threat to GGG, nor had he made any impact on his career, rather the other way around..

Syntax Error wrote:

crow wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:
Didn't he finish with like 60+ fights?

All the great middles fought until their mid thirties at least
Monzon (99 fights), Robinson (198 fights), Hopkins, Zale (87 fights), Giardello (132 fights), Mickey Walker, Golovkin, Greb (dead at 32 on the operating table; never retired)

Many had over 100 bouts.

So again, why did Marvin retire so soon?

Have you heard Hagler's line about silk pyjamas in getting up in the morning to run?

Marvin had lost his hunger & was only motivated by paydays.

The only person who could give him a decent payday & after a close first fight, Leonard messed him about & he became disillusioned & quit.

He literally quit boxing as a whole. no punditry, talk shows etc. Correct me, but I believe he moved to Italy?

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

crow wrote:
All the great middles fought until their mid thirties at least
Monzon (99 fights), Robinson (198 fights), Hopkins, Zale (87 fights), Giardello (132 fights), Mickey Walker, Golovkin, Greb (dead at 32 on the operating table; never retired)

Many had over 100 bouts.

So again, why did Marvin retire so soon?

Have you heard Hagler's line about silk pyjamas in getting up in the morning to run?

Marvin had lost his hunger & was only motivated by paydays.

The only person who could give him a decent payday & after a close first fight, Leonard messed him about & he became disillusioned & quit.

He literally quit boxing as a whole. no punditry, talk shows etc. Correct me, but I believe he moved to Italy?

Became an actor and does do some bits around boxing but it isn't his life. He also had a couple of injuries, seem to recall an achilles injury that delayed the Mugabi fight. He had been stripped of most of the titles for fighting Leonard, believed he was jobbed there, wanted that rematch and nothing else and when Leonard realised a rematch wasn't in his interests Hagler walked. He had nothing left to prove, no one left to fight and he had made his money. He did exactly the right thing and is in good shape these days for it. Hearns carried on and you can hear the damage it did him when he speaks, Leonard ruined his own reputation. In the end probably made the right call.

GPTM1403 wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:
Have you heard Hagler's line about silk pyjamas in getting up in the morning to run?

Marvin had lost his hunger & was only motivated by paydays.

The only person who could give him a decent payday & after a close first fight, Leonard messed him about & he became disillusioned & quit.

He literally quit boxing as a whole. no punditry, talk shows etc. Correct me, but I believe he moved to Italy?

Became an actor and does do some bits around boxing but it isn't his life. He also had a couple of injuries, seem to recall an achilles injury that delayed the Mugabi fight. He had been stripped of most of the titles for fighting Leonard, believed he was jobbed there, wanted that rematch and nothing else and when Leonard realised a rematch wasn't in his interests Hagler walked. He had nothing left to prove, no one left to fight and he had made his money. He did exactly the right thing and is in good shape these days for it. Hearns carried on and you can hear the damage it did him when he speaks, Leonard ruined his own reputation. In the end probably made the right call.

Hagler absolutely made the right call and, unlike the vast majority of ATGs, he stuck to it.

However, those who claim that he was not rocked by The Hitman in the greatest round in the history of boxing are delusional and attempting to rewrite history. He walked through the fire but he most certainly was singed.

Tanzio wrote:

GPTM1403 wrote:

Ruthless-RKO wrote:
He literally quit boxing as a whole. no punditry, talk shows etc. Correct me, but I believe he moved to Italy?

Became an actor and does do some bits around boxing but it isn't his life. He also had a couple of injuries, seem to recall an achilles injury that delayed the Mugabi fight. He had been stripped of most of the titles for fighting Leonard, believed he was jobbed there, wanted that rematch and nothing else and when Leonard realised a rematch wasn't in his interests Hagler walked. He had nothing left to prove, no one left to fight and he had made his money. He did exactly the right thing and is in good shape these days for it. Hearns carried on and you can hear the damage it did him when he speaks, Leonard ruined his own reputation. In the end probably made the right call.

Hagler absolutely made the right call and, unlike the vast majority of ATGs, he stuck to it.

However, those who claim that he was not rocked by The Hitman in the greatest round in the history of boxing are delusional and attempting to rewrite history. He walked through the fire but he most certainly was singed.

I thought it was clear that a right hand stopped him in his tracks and you see a very, very brief WTF pause and then he carried on. By the standards of a guy with a really solid chin that was shaken up and that punch would have creamed most if not all other MWs of that time.

GPTM1403 wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

GPTM1403 wrote:
Became an actor and does do some bits around boxing but it isn't his life. He also had a couple of injuries, seem to recall an achilles injury that delayed the Mugabi fight. He had been stripped of most of the titles for fighting Leonard, believed he was jobbed there, wanted that rematch and nothing else and when Leonard realised a rematch wasn't in his interests Hagler walked. He had nothing left to prove, no one left to fight and he had made his money. He did exactly the right thing and is in good shape these days for it. Hearns carried on and you can hear the damage it did him when he speaks, Leonard ruined his own reputation. In the end probably made the right call.

Hagler absolutely made the right call and, unlike the vast majority of ATGs, he stuck to it.

However, those who claim that he was not rocked by The Hitman in the greatest round in the history of boxing are delusional and attempting to rewrite history. He walked through the fire but he most certainly was singed.

I thought it was clear that a right hand stopped him in his tracks and you see a very, very brief WTF pause and then he carried on. By the standards of a guy with a really solid chin that was shaken up and that punch would have creamed most if not all other MWs of that time.

. . . or any time.

3G needs his Hearns to cement the legacy. Spence could be his huckleberry but he has a lot to prove first and 3G may not have that much time.

If Lemieux were to smash GingerHead and fight Jacobs, the rematch with the winner of that fight would be huge.

Ruthless-RKO wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

crow wrote:
All the great middles fought until their mid thirties at least
Monzon (99 fights), Robinson (198 fights), Hopkins, Zale (87 fights), Giardello (132 fights), Mickey Walker, Golovkin, Greb (dead at 32 on the operating table; never retired)

Many had over 100 bouts.

So again, why did Marvin retire so soon?

Have you heard Hagler's line about silk pyjamas in getting up in the morning to run?

Marvin had lost his hunger & was only motivated by paydays.

The only person who could give him a decent payday & after a close first fight, Leonard messed him about & he became disillusioned & quit.

He literally quit boxing as a whole. no punditry, talk shows etc. Correct me, but I believe he moved to Italy?

He did move to Italy. I've seen him do punditry a few times. It's not his strong suit.

GPTM1403 wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

GPTM1403 wrote:
Became an actor and does do some bits around boxing but it isn't his life. He also had a couple of injuries, seem to recall an achilles injury that delayed the Mugabi fight. He had been stripped of most of the titles for fighting Leonard, believed he was jobbed there, wanted that rematch and nothing else and when Leonard realised a rematch wasn't in his interests Hagler walked. He had nothing left to prove, no one left to fight and he had made his money. He did exactly the right thing and is in good shape these days for it. Hearns carried on and you can hear the damage it did him when he speaks, Leonard ruined his own reputation. In the end probably made the right call.

Hagler absolutely made the right call and, unlike the vast majority of ATGs, he stuck to it.

However, those who claim that he was not rocked by The Hitman in the greatest round in the history of boxing are delusional and attempting to rewrite history. He walked through the fire but he most certainly was singed.

I thought it was clear that a right hand stopped him in his tracks and you see a very, very brief WTF pause and then he carried on. By the standards of a guy with a really solid chin that was shaken up and that punch would have creamed most if not all other MWs of that time.

This is accurate, he noticed it for a split second and hearns broke his hand. I really wish Tommy didn't hurt his hand the first time the fight was scheduled, I think he would have had a chance then. In the greatest of ironies Leonard stole his rematch.

Incidentally, I find Hagler-Hearns to be one of the most overrated fights in the sport. I'd heard so much great stuff about it and was expecting a truly amazing back and forth war, but I thought it was a one-sided beating for all but the first couple of minutes; Hearns's legs deserted him very quickly, while Hagler remained rock solid.

Still a very good fight between ATGs, but for me lacking in competiveness and momentum shifts relative to my most favourite bouts. Muriqi-Ahmed takes the cake for me as far as 3 round wars go, and the dramatic turn of events in Hong-Carrasquilla is tough to match.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

GPTM1403 wrote:

Tanzio wrote: Hagler absolutely made the right call and, unlike the vast majority of ATGs, he stuck to it.

However, those who claim that he was not rocked by The Hitman in the greatest round in the history of boxing are delusional and attempting to rewrite history. He walked through the fire but he most certainly was singed.

I thought it was clear that a right hand stopped him in his tracks and you see a very, very brief WTF pause and then he carried on. By the standards of a guy with a really solid chin that was shaken up and that punch would have creamed most if not all other MWs of that time.

This is accurate, he noticed it for a split second and hearns broke his hand. I really wish Tommy didn't hurt his hand the first time the fight was scheduled, I think he would have had a chance then. In the greatest of ironies Leonard stole his rematch.

I have a feeling any fight between Hearns and Hagler goes the same way, even with his power at that stage in their careers Hagler was fresh enough to avoid being caught clean and strong enough/quick enough to finish it. But then I was a big Hagler fan so don't know I'd call anyone against him in his prime - I was never convinced Leonard won their fight either.