BoxRec

TheDarkDestroyer wrote:If you believe that's true you'll believe anything.

Freedom2013 wrote:Andre Ward refused to fight Sergey Kovalev with neutral judges

Kathy Duva: "We wanted to go to them and ask for neutral officials, that's something I asked for, but Andre Ward would have none of that,'' stated Duva, who explained that by 'neutral', any judge not from the United States or Russia.

http://www.BS.com/duva-request ... KS4eL.dpuf

Kathy Duva talks pure utter búllshít at times! Main Events and Sergey Kovalev didn’t seem to mind having a trio of American judges for Krusher’s bouts against the likes of Nadjib Mohammedi, Bernard Hopkins, Blake Caparello, Cedric Agnew, Cornelius White etc.

Enlightened-One wrote:

Freedom2013 wrote:Andre Ward refused to fight Sergey Kovalev with neutral judges

Kathy Duva: "We wanted to go to them and ask for neutral officials, that's something I asked for, but Andre Ward would have none of that,'' stated Duva, who explained that by 'neutral', any judge not from the United States or Russia.

http://www.BS.com/duva-request ... KS4eL.dpuf

Kathy Duva talks pure utter búllshít at times! Main Events and Sergey Kovalev didn’t seem to mind having a trio of American judges for Krusher’s bouts against the likes of Nadjib Mohammedi, Bernard Hopkins, Blake Caparello, Cedric Agnew, Cornelius White etc.

Almost everyone believes that Kovalev won the fight so obviously, the judges didn't do a good job in the first fight. I don't think that it's unreasonable of Duva to at least mention neutral judging. Overreaction on your end.

i slappin soggy had any balls he would fight kovalev in moscow with russian judges

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The nationality of the judge is irrelevant. It's the integrity that matters.

Saad, ideally speaking you are right, we don't live in a perfect world though, Duva's request would help create a level playground for both boxers..there'll be a lot less criticism from the boxing fans in case of a close fight..

caldo2025 wrote:Almost everyone believes that Kovalev won the fight so obviously, the judges didn't do a good job in the first fight. I don't think that it's unreasonable of Duva to at least mention neutral judging. Overreaction on your end.

I think it’s an exaggeration to lay claim that “almost everyone” believed that Kovalev deserved to be awarded a victory over Andre Ward, since there are a large portion of experts and fans alike that concurred with the scoring, but I do concede that the decision was contentious.

I also admit that Sergey has every right to feel aggrieved at incurring a disputable loss on his resume.

That being said, there are at least half a dozen fights where Krusher has been the A-side fighter, where his own promoter decided/agreed to use a trio of judges from the US.

Also, the “neutral” judge issue could have been addressed during the contract negotiations, because the Russian was the A-side fighter at that point in time, which is compounded by the fact that nobody from Main Events or Team Kovalev complained during the pre-fight build-up about there being three American judges scoring his fight against Ward.

Kathy Duva labouring about the issue now, armed with the benefit of hindsight, seems like sour grapes to me, because they made the same decision for the Ward fight that they have previously made for multiple contests, but in this instance, things didn’t go their own way.

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Almost everyone believes that Kovalev won the fight so obviously, the judges didn't do a good job in the first fight. I don't think that it's unreasonable of Duva to at least mention neutral judging. Overreaction on your end.

I think it’s an exaggeration to lay claim that “almost everyone” believed that Kovalev deserved to be awarded a victory over Andre Ward, since there are a large portion of experts and fans alike that concurred with the scoring, but I do concede that the decision was contentious.

I also admit that Sergey has every right to feel aggrieved at incurring a disputable loss on his resume.

That being said, there are at least half a dozen fights where Krusher has been the A-side fighter, where his own promoter decided/agreed to use a trio of judges from the US.

Also, the “neutral” judge issue could have been addressed during the contract negotiations, because the Russian was the A-side fighter at that point in time, which is compounded by the fact that nobody from Main Events or Team Kovalev complained during the pre-fight build-up about there being three American judges scoring his fight against Ward.

Kathy Duva labouring about the issue now, armed with the benefit of hindsight, seems like sour grapes to me, because they made the same decision for the Ward fight that they have previously made for multiple contests, but in this instance, things didn’t go their own way.

..the difference between this and previous fights is that the last one was a high-profile career defining fight hardly compared with the previous ones...of course we are all smarter in hindsight.. I still believe it was a lack of judgement on Duva's part and now that she knows better she has legitimately raised this issue..

greg wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:

caldo2025 wrote:Almost everyone believes that Kovalev won the fight so obviously, the judges didn't do a good job in the first fight. I don't think that it's unreasonable of Duva to at least mention neutral judging. Overreaction on your end.

I think it’s an exaggeration to lay claim that “almost everyone” believed that Kovalev deserved to be awarded a victory over Andre Ward, since there are a large portion of experts and fans alike that concurred with the scoring, but I do concede that the decision was contentious.

I also admit that Sergey has every right to feel aggrieved at incurring a disputable loss on his resume.

That being said, there are at least half a dozen fights where Krusher has been the A-side fighter, where his own promoter decided/agreed to use a trio of judges from the US.

Also, the “neutral” judge issue could have been addressed during the contract negotiations, because the Russian was the A-side fighter at that point in time, which is compounded by the fact that nobody from Main Events or Team Kovalev complained during the pre-fight build-up about there being three American judges scoring his fight against Ward.

Kathy Duva labouring about the issue now, armed with the benefit of hindsight, seems like sour grapes to me, because they made the same decision for the Ward fight that they have previously made for multiple contests, but in this instance, things didn’t go their own way.

..the difference between this and previous fights is that the last one was a high-profile career defining fight hardly compared with the previous ones...of course we are all smarter in hindsight.. I still believe it was a lack of judgement on Duva's part and now that she knows better she has legitimately raised this issue..

Like I said before, Kathy Duva and Sergey Kovalev didn’t seem to mind having a trio of American judges for Krusher’s bouts against the likes of Nadjib Mohammedi, Bernard Hopkins, Blake Caparello, Cedric Agnew, Cornelius White etc.

I'd argue that a WBA, WBO & IBF world title unification fight against the dead-cert first ballot Hall-of-Famer, Bernard Hopkins, where the betting odds were evenly split, should be considered a highly-significant victory for a fighter like Sergey Kovalev, where the calibre of the opposition on Krusher's resume was pretty weak beforehand?

Let's not forget that The Ring website actually rated Bernard Hopkins above Sergey Kovalev at the time of their contest in 2014, so I'm not sure about the validity of your claim regarding the "difference" being the Ward fight was "high-profile career defining"?

You're right about one thing though, Kathy Duva made a mistake and she should refrain from moaning about the neutrality of the judges, for a decision that her team clearly made... and have done so previously on multiple occassions.

Freedom2013 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's just amusing, if a judge was buyable do you really think he or she would give a damn where the boxer was from?

Probably not, but Roc Nation has a lot more money than Main Events.

Ward's manager James Prince is a shady guy. Once he sent some thugs to beat up poor old Leonard Ellerbe and put him in hospital.

https://pound4poundireland.wordpress.co ... es-prince/

"Ellerbe can tell you about when a couple of guys came up in Top Rank's gym and they was taking two to three weeks to scrub blood out of the stains of the carpet that was in there. " - Bernard Hopkins

I'm pretty sure they deserved it. Prince just doesn't do that for the fun of it. And if it's as true as the article states, TMT should be very grateful for Arum.

Enlightened-One wrote:
I'd argue that a WBA, WBO & IBF world title unification fight against the dead-cert first ballot Hall-of-Famer, Bernard Hopkins, where the betting odds were evenly split, should be considered a highly-significant victory for a fighter like Sergey Kovalev, where the calibre of the opposition on Krusher's resume was pretty weak beforehand?

Let's not forget that The Ring website actually rated Bernard Hopkins above Sergey Kovalev at the time of their contest in 2014, so I'm not sure about the validity of your claim regarding the "difference" being the Ward fight was "high-profile career defining"?

I'd argue that almost 50 year-old BHop being a superstar and all that was nowhere near his former self losing one in every three fights in the last 10 years. I believe the NAME of Hopkins, his aura so to speak, more than anything else clouded the judgement of some experts. Great scalp no doubt on Kovalev's resume, still not to be compared with prime Ward with zero loss record..

greg wrote:

Enlightened-One wrote:
I'd argue that a WBA, WBO & IBF world title unification fight against the dead-cert first ballot Hall-of-Famer, Bernard Hopkins, where the betting odds were evenly split, should be considered a highly-significant victory for a fighter like Sergey Kovalev, where the calibre of the opposition on Krusher's resume was pretty weak beforehand?

Let's not forget that The Ring website actually rated Bernard Hopkins above Sergey Kovalev at the time of their contest in 2014, so I'm not sure about the validity of your claim regarding the "difference" being the Ward fight was "high-profile career defining"?

I'd argue that almost 50 year-old BHop being a superstar and all that was nowhere near his former self losing one in every three fights in the last 10 years. I believe the NAME of Hopkins, his aura so to speak, more than anything else clouded the judgement of some experts. Great scalp no doubt on Kovalev's resume, still not to be compared with prime Ward with zero loss record..

OK, so we’ll agree to disagree on this particular matter.

The fact remains, however, that Kathy Duva has a proven track-record of deciding/agreeing to use a trio of judges from the US for at least half a dozen of Kovalev's fights… and now that she’s armed with the benefit of hindsight, she’s clearly suffering from a severe dose of sour grapes.

I notice nothing enlightened about no more pbc on spike or ESPN.

Enlightened-One wrote:Kathy Duva made a mistake and she should refrain from moaning about the neutrality of the judges, for a decision that her team clearly made... and have done so previously on multiple occassions.

I think it wouldn't hurt if she keeps moaning. It is like a fighter in the ring complaining about rabit punches, low blows, etc. Some refs will take an action based on amount of those complaints. Similarly, if a judge wasn't bribed, but was just naturally cheering for his countryman against the Russian villain, he could recollect those complaints and not cheer that much.

IKSRTFO wrote:

Freedom2013 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's just amusing, if a judge was buyable do you really think he or she would give a damn where the boxer was from?

Probably not, but Roc Nation has a lot more money than Main Events.

Ward's manager James Prince is a shady guy. Once he sent some thugs to beat up poor old Leonard Ellerbe and put him in hospital.

https://pound4poundireland.wordpress.co ... es-prince/

"Ellerbe can tell you about when a couple of guys came up in Top Rank's gym and they was taking two to three weeks to scrub blood out of the stains of the carpet that was in there. " - Bernard Hopkins

I'm pretty sure they deserved it. Prince just doesn't do that for the fun of it. And if it's as true as the article states, TMT should be very grateful for Arum.

Boxing, like life, is a dirty business. Pain, suffering, ridicule, physical and mental abuse, lying, cheating, theft, coercion and self torture all happen on a routine basis.

Served with a veneer of decency and civilisation is how we like it. No wonder many fighters who just want to keep their heads down and focus on fighting end up getting fleeced.

At least managers like Barry Hearn try to dole out sage advice eg 'Buy a house each time you get paid'. For a boxer the fall from physical grace that we all have to eventually face is usually from a greater height and comes sooner.

Thomastearns wrote:

IKSRTFO wrote:

Freedom2013 wrote:Probably not, but Roc Nation has a lot more money than Main Events.

Ward's manager James Prince is a shady guy. Once he sent some thugs to beat up poor old Leonard Ellerbe and put him in hospital.

https://pound4poundireland.wordpress.co ... es-prince/

"Ellerbe can tell you about when a couple of guys came up in Top Rank's gym and they was taking two to three weeks to scrub blood out of the stains of the carpet that was in there. " - Bernard Hopkins

I'm pretty sure they deserved it. Prince just doesn't do that for the fun of it. And if it's as true as the article states, TMT should be very grateful for Arum.

Boxing, like life, is a dirty business. Pain, suffering, ridicule, physical and mental abuse, lying, cheating, theft, coercion and self torture all happen on a routine basis.

Served with a veneer of decency and civilisation is how we like it. No wonder many fighters who just want to keep their heads down and focus on fighting end up getting fleeced.

At least managers like Barry Hearn try to dole out sage advice eg 'Buy a house each time you get paid'. For a boxer the fall from physical grace that we all have to eventually face is usually from a greater height and comes sooner.

a very true post

Enlightened-One wrote:
The fact remains, however, that Kathy Duva has a proven track-record of deciding/agreeing to use a trio of judges from the US for at least half a dozen of Kovalev's fights… and now that she’s armed with the benefit of hindsight, she’s clearly suffering from a severe dose of sour grapes.

..that's how you learn from your mistakes, hope she'll pay more attention to that in the future..

Ward vs Kovalev II: Duva says Ward refused to agree to call for non-American judges; are we in store for another controversial decision?

https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/w ... duva/73584

This was no different then when a baseball coach complains about an umpires strike zone publicly or an NFL coach commenting publicly about a poor refereeing job after the game. They are just doing it so that they get the calls in the next game. This is all the Duva is doing by coming out and saying this stuff and that's what a good manager does. I would have done the same exact thing.

Perhaps you have a point in that Duva should have suggested this when Kovalev had the table tipped towards him at the first negotiation. But what are you supposed to do when you feel that you've been burned in a decision? Again, i don't think that it's unreasonable and I would have done the same exact thing,. Any good manager would at least mention it to draw attention to it in order to get my fighter the best chance at a fair decision.

Judges could be from a different country than the boxers and still be biased or corrupted. Where a judge is from does not guarantee impartiality.

IKSRTFO wrote:

Freedom2013 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It's just amusing, if a judge was buyable do you really think he or she would give a damn where the boxer was from?

Probably not, but Roc Nation has a lot more money than Main Events.

Ward's manager James Prince is a shady guy. Once he sent some thugs to beat up poor old Leonard Ellerbe and put him in hospital.

https://pound4poundireland.wordpress.co ... es-prince/

"Ellerbe can tell you about when a couple of guys came up in Top Rank's gym and they was taking two to three weeks to scrub blood out of the stains of the carpet that was in there. " - Bernard Hopkins

I'm pretty sure they deserved it. Prince just doesn't do that for the fun of it.

boxing_rocks wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The nationality of the judge is irrelevant. It's the integrity that matters.

It is really hard to keep integrity if you turn on TV or read news from major sources. Some very smart people work on indoctrinating you everywhere in the world.

You are proving his point. Nationality doesn't matter.

Kovalev has been fighting in the U.S. since 2009, and pretty sure he has gotten US citizenship for a couple of years now at least. He has only fought professionally in Russia 2 or 3 times.

Why the sudden need for non-American judges? To me it sounds like they are worried, and setting up an excuse for another loss. I'm one of the few that thought Ward edged Kovalev in the first fight. It comes down to who you gave the close rounds to. Kovalev was gassed halfway through, and Ward took control. Maybe too much vodka? Anyway, Ward will start earlier, Kovalev will gas earlier, and Ward will win clearly, or even possibly stop him. Stopping him is a long shot, but it depends on Kovalev's shape.

Duva has a bad habit if negotiating thru the media when she doesn't get her way. When you are a challenger the champion dictates the terms, that's just boxing.

Kovalev feels discrimination based on his nationality and Ward feels discrimination based on his race. Most experts had the previous fight within one point either way with some difficult to score rounds. I don't feel the judging previously was swayed by race or nationality. Judging in real time quite difficult without the use of replays. The judges assigned did their best under the circumstances.

The best judges are from areas where they score fights often. In the US this equates to California, Las Vegas and the Northeast. There are plenty of impartial good judges available. Even if they had judges from say Brittain, would this change the out come? Doubtful

Tarkus wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The nationality of the judge is irrelevant. It's the integrity that matters.

It is really hard to keep integrity if you turn on TV or read news from major sources. Some very smart people work on indoctrinating you everywhere in the world.

You are proving his point. Nationality doesn't matter.

It sure does. When your countryman fights a Russian "villain", who will you naturally be rooting for?

boxing_rocks wrote:

Tarkus wrote:

boxing_rocks wrote:
It is really hard to keep integrity if you turn on TV or read news from major sources. Some very smart people work on indoctrinating you everywhere in the world.

You are proving his point. Nationality doesn't matter.

It sure does. When your countryman fights a Russian "villain", who will you naturally be rooting for?

Villain? Kovalev is more beloved than Ward ever was. If anyone is a villain, it's Ward.