BoxRec

world ranked wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The thing is, Valdez, Ramirez, and Magdaleno are all really good fighters, and if they had good opponents, I might be willing to pay $45 for this. But these are 3 total mismatches. Where did they even find this Dos Santos guy? He's beaten nothing but absolute scrubs and even got KO'd by an Argentinian cab driver last year, but he gets a title shot against the #2 guy in the division? At least Marriaga and Bursak I've heard of.

Arum is definitely losing money on this, if he had them all in solid fights he would lose more.

Not if he stuck one on the Pacquaio undercard and maybe the Crawford undercard. Is Crawford fight the only fight on that card on TV

No, Beltran is fighting on that card too. You're ignoring the monetary issue. These guys have guarantees. He originally wanted to have a PPV undercard with these fights for the Pac undercard on a split site. Manny got caught up in the Khan nonsense and he moved on. The fact of the matter is that 30k buys for this brings roughly $600,000 to ease the loss he knows he's going to take. It will take some time, but this is good for the long run of the sport. The fighters make too much money for shitty fights.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

world ranked wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Arum is definitely losing money on this, if he had them all in solid fights he would lose more.

Not if he stuck one on the Pacquaio undercard and maybe the Crawford undercard. Is Crawford fight the only fight on that card on TV

No, Beltran is fighting on that card too. You're ignoring the monetary issue. These guys have guarantees. He originally wanted to have a PPV undercard with these fights for the Pac undercard on a split site. Manny got caught up in the Khan nonsense and he moved on. The fact of the matter is that 30k buys for this brings roughly $600,000 to ease the loss he knows he's going to take. It will take some time, but this is good for the long run of the sport. The fighters make too much money for shitty fights.

Why is Putting beltran is on the undercard is more important than putting any of these guys on. It just doesn't make sense to put Beltran as the undercard fight rather than one of these guys. I would think one of those fighters were presented to fight on HBO for less would take it. At least one would I think. But the boxing business model in the US right now is failing.

jujigatame wrote:The card is:

Oscar Valdez vs. Manuel Marriaga
Gilberto Ramirez vs. Max Bursak
Jessie Magdaleno vs. Adeilson Dos Santos

They are charging $45 for this garbage. Who in their right mind would pay for this?

I wouldn't pay 45 cents for that card.

Somehow Promoters are gonna have to figure out how to start paying these guys what they're worth, and if that's less than what they're making then they're just gonna have to get used to that or find another way to make a living. There'll be other fighters.

gilgamesh wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The card is:

Oscar Valdez vs. Manuel Marriaga
Gilberto Ramirez vs. Max Bursak
Jessie Magdaleno vs. Adeilson Dos Santos

They are charging $45 for this garbage. Who in their right mind would pay for this?

I wouldn't pay 45 cents for that card.

Somehow Promoters are gonna have to figure out how to start paying these guys what they're worth, and if that's less than what they're making then they're just gonna have to get used to that or find another way to make a living. There'll be other fighters.

Fighters being more active as well could allow guys to get paid what they worth if they fight more often.

world ranked wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

world ranked wrote:
Not if he stuck one on the Pacquaio undercard and maybe the Crawford undercard. Is Crawford fight the only fight on that card on TV

No, Beltran is fighting on that card too. You're ignoring the monetary issue. These guys have guarantees. He originally wanted to have a PPV undercard with these fights for the Pac undercard on a split site. Manny got caught up in the Khan nonsense and he moved on. The fact of the matter is that 30k buys for this brings roughly $600,000 to ease the loss he knows he's going to take. It will take some time, but this is good for the long run of the sport. The fighters make too much money for shitty fights.

Why is Putting beltran is on the undercard is more important than putting any of these guys on. It just doesn't make sense to put Beltran as the undercard fight rather than one of these guys. I would think one of those fighters were presented to fight on HBO for less would take it. At least one would I think. But the boxing business model in the US right now is failing.

LOL, Beltran fits the budget for the card.

world ranked wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The card is:

Oscar Valdez vs. Manuel Marriaga
Gilberto Ramirez vs. Max Bursak
Jessie Magdaleno vs. Adeilson Dos Santos

They are charging $45 for this garbage. Who in their right mind would pay for this?

I wouldn't pay 45 cents for that card.

Somehow Promoters are gonna have to figure out how to start paying these guys what they're worth, and if that's less than what they're making then they're just gonna have to get used to that or find another way to make a living. There'll be other fighters.

Fighters being more active as well could allow guys to get paid what they worth if they fight more often.

They're worth less than they're getting paid for the most part. At least at this very high, but not quite elite level. Mayweather got paid insane amounts of money and now everybody thinks they should get that kinda money.

Somebody has to get make these guys get the picture. That ain't reality. That kinda money just ain't there for most fighters to ever make. There'll never be another Mayweather that has such a dull style and is still able to become a PPV attraction somehow. That'll never happen again.

gilgamesh wrote:

world ranked wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I wouldn't pay 45 cents for that card.

Somehow Promoters are gonna have to figure out how to start paying these guys what they're worth, and if that's less than what they're making then they're just gonna have to get used to that or find another way to make a living. There'll be other fighters.

Fighters being more active as well could allow guys to get paid what they worth if they fight more often.

They're worth less than they're getting paid for the most part. At least at this very high, but not quite elite level. Mayweather got paid insane amounts of money and now everybody thinks they should get that kinda money.

Somebody has to get make these guys get the picture. That ain't reality. That kinda money just ain't there for most fighters to ever make. There'll never be another Mayweather that has such a dull style and is still able to become a PPV attraction somehow. That'll never happen again.

Floyd made what he should have, that isn't the problem. It's the Broner guys making a million for a sparring session.

gilgamesh wrote:

world ranked wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:
I wouldn't pay 45 cents for that card.

Somehow Promoters are gonna have to figure out how to start paying these guys what they're worth, and if that's less than what they're making then they're just gonna have to get used to that or find another way to make a living. There'll be other fighters.

Fighters being more active as well could allow guys to get paid what they worth if they fight more often.

They're worth less than they're getting paid for the most part. At least at this very high, but not quite elite level. Mayweather got paid insane amounts of money and now everybody thinks they should get that kinda money.

Somebody has to get make these guys get the picture. That ain't reality. That kinda money just ain't there for most fighters to ever make. There'll never be another Mayweather that has such a dull style and is still able to become a PPV attraction somehow. That'll never happen again.

The ones who get on television are making the correct amount or more than what there worth. These guys have actually been on television several times. The guys that don't make good are the small hall shows which means they should be fighting more.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Mexi-Box wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The thing is, Valdez, Ramirez, and Magdaleno are all really good fighters, and if they had good opponents, I might be willing to pay $45 for this. But these are 3 total mismatches. Where did they even find this Dos Santos guy? He's beaten nothing but absolute scrubs and even got KO'd by an Argentinian cab driver last year, but he gets a title shot against the #2 guy in the division? At least Marriaga and Bursak I've heard of.

To me, Marriaga/Valdez looks like a 50-50 fight. It's an outstanding fight. The rest are awful fights, though. Should've been Magdaleno/Donaire: II and Ramirez/Groves or something.

Arum wanted to make Valdez/Donaire, HBO shut that down too.

Actually, I thought that Donaire refused the fight. I saw his Twitter, and he said so himself. He said he wants to gradually move up to featherweight, not rush it like he did against Walters.

jujigatame wrote:The thing is, Valdez, Ramirez, and Magdaleno are all really good fighters, and if they had good opponents, I might be willing to pay $45 for this. But these are 3 total mismatches. Where did they even find this Dos Santos guy? He's beaten nothing but absolute scrubs and even got KO'd by an Argentinian cab driver last year, but he gets a title shot against the #2 guy in the division? At least Marriaga and Bursak I've heard of.

Miguel Marriaga/Oscar Valdez is far from a mismatch.

Impractical Poster wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The thing is, Valdez, Ramirez, and Magdaleno are all really good fighters, and if they had good opponents, I might be willing to pay $45 for this. But these are 3 total mismatches. Where did they even find this Dos Santos guy? He's beaten nothing but absolute scrubs and even got KO'd by an Argentinian cab driver last year, but he gets a title shot against the #2 guy in the division? At least Marriaga and Bursak I've heard of.

Miguel Marriaga/Oscar Valdez is far from a mismatch.

Yes, and it's a better fight all around than Valdez/Donaire. I'd rather see Donaire rematch Magdaleno if that's the case. I really do think Valdez/Marriaga is 50-50.

Impractical Poster wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The thing is, Valdez, Ramirez, and Magdaleno are all really good fighters, and if they had good opponents, I might be willing to pay $45 for this. But these are 3 total mismatches. Where did they even find this Dos Santos guy? He's beaten nothing but absolute scrubs and even got KO'd by an Argentinian cab driver last year, but he gets a title shot against the #2 guy in the division? At least Marriaga and Bursak I've heard of.

Miguel Marriaga/Oscar Valdez is far from a mismatch.

It's pretty damn mismatchy. I found odds of +870 and +620 on Marriaga. He's a very heavy underdog for a reason. Valdez has already beaten multiple opponents as good or better than Marriaga.

The whole card is shit, better it be on PPV. Stream it or ignore it. I'll be watching Porter/Berto, not for free, on Showtime.

jujigatame wrote:

Impractical Poster wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The thing is, Valdez, Ramirez, and Magdaleno are all really good fighters, and if they had good opponents, I might be willing to pay $45 for this. But these are 3 total mismatches. Where did they even find this Dos Santos guy? He's beaten nothing but absolute scrubs and even got KO'd by an Argentinian cab driver last year, but he gets a title shot against the #2 guy in the division? At least Marriaga and Bursak I've heard of.

Miguel Marriaga/Oscar Valdez is far from a mismatch.

It's pretty damn mismatchy. I found odds of +870 and +620 on Marriaga. He's a very heavy underdog for a reason. Valdez has already beaten multiple opponents as good or better than Marriaga.

Who are Valdez's best opponents? Shot Gradovich who has been scraping by weak opposition with SDs and MDs? Avalos?

He's pretty unproven, and I think Marriaga is very arguably his best opponent. Still expect him to win though....

There is a PPV from Germany available that same day for purchase in the US as well. Who is up for two ppv's in one day?

Gradovich and Avalos were definitely better. Maybe that Rueda guy too.

I dunno why everyone thinks Marriaga is so good.

How were they definitely better? And have you seen the guys who Gradovich can barely beat these days? Before his recent MDs and SDs he also looked like crap in drawing with Velez and losing widely to Selby, so he hasnt shown good form in a while and appears to be well shopworn.

I dont even rate Marriaga that highly, and I'm not exactly excited about the fight, but Valdez has fought pretty much no one and this may well be his toughest opponent.

Mexi-Box wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Mexi-Box wrote: To me, Marriaga/Valdez looks like a 50-50 fight. It's an outstanding fight. The rest are awful fights, though. Should've been Magdaleno/Donaire: II and Ramirez/Groves or something.

Arum wanted to make Valdez/Donaire, HBO shut that down too.

Actually, I thought that Donaire refused the fight. I saw his Twitter, and he said so himself. He said he wants to gradually move up to featherweight, not rush it like he did against Walters.

Donaire's career is winding down. He doesn't have much time to waste.

world ranked wrote:

jujigatame wrote:The card is:

Oscar Valdez vs. Manuel Marriaga
Gilberto Ramirez vs. Max Bursak
Jessie Magdaleno vs. Adeilson Dos Santos

They are charging $45 for this garbage. Who in their right mind would pay for this?

But people love to Shiite on pbc but forget other promoters put out garbage too. All pbc haters defend this. Imagine if pbc put this out for ppv people
would be saying he the worst thing for boxing.

Exactly this. Arum has shelved and disrespected fighters for years.
For some reason, the media doesn't focus on his transgressions nearly as much.
Didn't he say some crazy shit a couple of years ago that got ignored.

The US media protects him for (duh) reasons.
The modern boxing fan is blinded by the media, and they wanted to love everything about Manny.

Are 'all pbc haters' really defending this? That seems like far too broad of a statement....

I actually like the PPV events that Top Rank has put on so far. I'm not talking about the fights but the event that was put on. Way better production than PBC and their awful announcers like Sugar Ray whispering nonsense for 2 hours straight. I think that Top Rank is just getting used to putting these events on because it's going to be the future of their organization. Why give Showtime or HBO a cut when you could put your own events on now? Makes perfect sense to me.

Agreed though, to expensive for the amount of talent fighting on that card even though i think Valdez is an absolute stud and future P4P star.

caldo2025 wrote:I actually like the PPV events that Top Rank has put on so far. I'm not talking about the fights but the event that was put on. Way better production than PBC and their awful announcers like Sugar Ray whispering nonsense for 2 hours straight. I think that Top Rank is just getting used to putting these events on because it's going to be the future of their organization. Why give Showtime or HBO a cut when you could put your own events on now? Makes perfect sense to me.

Agreed though, to expensive for the amount of talent fighting on that card even though i think Valdez is an absolute stud and future P4P star.

Nah HBO didn't want this card.

I guess the haters of the pbc will pay for this card rather than watching Porter-Berto.

crusader wrote:How were they definitely better? And have you seen the guys who Gradovich can barely beat these days? Before his recent MDs and SDs he also looked like crap in drawing with Velez and losing widely to Selby, so he hasnt shown good form in a while and appears to be well shopworn.

I dont even rate Marriaga that highly, and I'm not exactly excited about the fight, but Valdez has fought pretty much no one and this may well be his toughest opponent.

When Valdez beat Gradovich, Gradovich's only loss was to Selby. Gradovich was actually a legit top 10 featherweight for a good amount of time back in 2013-14. Many people had him top 5.

Marriaga has beaten nobody good, ever. You are goofing on Gradovich for beating Jesus Galicia by majority decision last year, but the same Jesus Galicia is the biggest win of Marriaga's career, and he also did not beat him by a wide margin.

I don't think the Gradovich who faced Valdez is any better than Marriaga. Please tell me of a fight Velez onward in which Gradovich clearly showed himself to be the superior of the two...